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NY Times: Violence after reopening Gezi Park

the survey of Bigi university says 70% not member of any political party. so i see parallel result in two surveys, are you trying to reufte me or yourself?

btw, in the same survey conducted by KONDA:

- only 30% of the people would vote for CHP.

so i see anohter parallel result; and i ask again if you are trying to refute me or yourself?!


Why are you pushing so much to relate the protesters with CHP? i wonder why.

İ'm not trying to make the protesters chp. İ'm trying to prove my point that the protesters are mainly left ideological.
İf you would take your time and go back. You could clearly see that i put down EVERY left party to put my statement.
Not just CHP. Putting words in my mouth to back up your own statement is quite childish.

By the way the survey that was posted by bilgi university were 2 individual teachers and was taken on a online survey.
Now İ'm not quite an expert on this area but as far as İ know online surveys, are usually not the best source.
As İ stated before you can find many online surveys. You can find online polls that say that MHP will win the upcoming elections.

And how funny it is ,that you made concerncs about the GENAR poll.
But don't seem to worry a bit about the ideological prefernces of the two teachers that took that survey :)

Yes the survey says that 31% will votemin the next elections for chp, but a good portions says that he's still undecided.
Now be a good survey taker and divide those undecided voters according to each parties percentage.

Ooh and the bilgi survey you pointed out also clearly states that 75% doesn't see themselves as conservative ideology.
 
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İ'm not trying to make the protesters chp. İ'm trying to prove my point that the protesters are mainly left ideological.

Yes the survey says that 31% will votemin the next elections for chp, but a good portions says that he's still undecided.

Do you even think before writing? please read the bold parts, Do you still try to refute me?


By the way the survey that was posted by bilgi university were 2 individual teachers and was taken on a online survey.


And how funny it is ,that you made concerncs about the GENAR poll.
But don't seem to worry a bit about the ideological prefernces of the two teachers that took that survey

why i posted the owner and members of genar is because i wanted to prove that the survey of genar is not trustworth; if you think the survey of the bilgi university is not trustworth, then prove it as i did; i am ready to aplogise people here for the fact that i mislead them with untrustworth documents. btw, you still do not apologize .

İf you would take your time and go back. You could clearly see that i put down EVERY left party to put my statement.

if people remember why the protest started, and then read your comment, they could think that only people WHO care the trees and freedom are the ones in left wing part of politics; the rest i mean concervatives and nationalists do not care. is that what you claim?

As İ stated before you can find many online surveys. You can find online polls that say that MHP will win the upcoming elections.

tape records against generals and scholars and representatives of the oppoisiton parities; fabricated evidences against generals and scholars to keep them in jail , and so on..... i can understan why you are cynic about lies and illegal activities.
 
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Do you even think before writing? please read the bold parts, Do you still try to refute me?




why i posted the owner and members of genar is because i wanted to prove that the survey of genar is not trustworth; if you think the survey of the bilgi university is not trustworth, then prove it as i did; i am ready to aplogise people here for the fact that i mislead them with untrustworth documents. btw, you still do not apologize .



if people remember why the protest started, and then read your comment, they could think that only people WHO care the trees and freedom are the ones in left wing part of politics; the rest i mean concervatives and nationalists do not care. is that what you claim?



tape records against generals and scholars and representatives of the oppoisiton parities; fabricated evidences against generals and scholars to keep them in jail , and so on..... i can understan why you are cynic about lies.

The ship is sinking mate,

The moment you start to comment on the writer and not the written it self, tells enough about the guy in front of you and where he's standing at.
When you have something to tell about what I've written you can come back. But if you only want to make personal comments on my behalf, go find yourself a kıraathane .

Now bye bye mate,
Good luck.
 
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The ship is sinking mate,

The moment you start to comment on the writer and not the written it self, tells enough about the guy in front of you and where he's standing at.
When you have something to tell about what I've written you can come back. But if you only want to make personal comments on my behalf, go find yourself a kıraathane .

Now bye bye mate,
Good luck.

is this your way of escaping from a debate when you are out of arguments?

i am not interested in you personally, nor your thougt; you are just a step to explain the truth; as you can see, some of your posts are refuted by me and replaced by the trustworth ones; so the readers here can see people lilke you and people like me, and then decide whom to trust; that is all i am after, thank you for your contribution and help to prove my points.
 
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is this your way of escaping from a debate when you are out of arguments?

i am not interested in you personally, nor your thougt; you are just a step to explain the truth; as you can see, some of your posts are refuted by me and replaced by the trustworth ones; so the readers here can see people lilke you and people like me, and then decide whom to trust; that is all i am after, thank you for your contribution and help to prove my points.

You're totally right.

You are the truth speaker.
 
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So you can call me Tanja (my real name is Linh) only. why do you hate pacifists?

I simply just think that pacifist is the one who love peace and try to stop war.

Somehow I find the way now Egypt and Turkey do is very good. Some protests to awake the government and global media. Government will do thing more carefully and listen more to their citizen after these events. I dont think that the outsiders or your 'enemies' can take it as an advantage to weaken your nation because after all your government does listen and change.
A very close friend of mine -which is a girl- jumped in front of a knife armed guy to stop him yesterday. I like brave people. Last thing I need is someone high and mighty to remind me of how bad wars are and how wrong it is to employ violence.
 
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So you can call me Tanja (my real name is Linh) only. why do you hate pacifists?

I simply just think that pacifist is the one who love peace and try to stop war.

Somehow I find the way now Egypt and Turkey do is very good. Some protests to awake the government and global media. Government will do thing more carefully and listen more to their citizen after these events. I dont think that the outsiders or your 'enemies' can take it as an advantage to weaken your nation because after all your government does listen and change.
These protests had both violent as well as peaceful elements. The peaceful one's tried to distance themselves from the violent one's, and the violent one's and provokers used the opportunity to go on the streets. The protests were right about protesting for the park, but were wrong to demand for the government or Erdogan to step down. If a PM would give in to such a demand, it would alienate anyone who voted for him.

The protesters also tried to garner support from foreigners and foreign media by saying stuff like, that Erdogan is a dictatorship and similar statements. Not sure about you personally, but I did read that you were more pro-protesters. Do you have the impression that Erdogan is a dictator or has a totalitarian rule? I am aware that usually the first bit of information or impression sticks the strongest to form an opinion (well that is usually the case with me at least).

If you actually analyze Turkey and what it has gained in it's recent history, you see that Turkey has become more democratic and still is striving to become more democratic, it still has a long way to go though. And it is actively pursuing to join the EU. I don't think Erdogan would pursue joining EU if he and his government weren't working to become more democratic.

Turkey doesn't have a dictatorship or totalitarian problem. It's problem is that the opposition party's are weak. I think people felt like their voices weren't heard, so they went to the streets. I feel like the opposition party's policies didn't exactly help with their politics either. They seem to incite fear among the people by pursuing scare politics over rational politics to sway people over to their cause. They would say something like, 'AKP will divide the country with policy A'. You might think I am exaggerating here, and I wish I was. Only recently (a couple weeks before the protests) did an opposition party leader call Erdogan a dictator and compared him to Assad. These types of actions most definitely have a psychological effect on people.

There is also a certain frustration involved here as well. AKP has won 3 elections in a row and each time they were able to garner more votes. This can lead to a build up of frustration and desperation among people that support opposition parties and this can for instance lead to mass protests like Gezi park.

Erdogan's rhetoric wasn't exactly good either. He was a bit provocative and could've and should've picked his words more carefully. He has said many stuff that could be misinterpreted/mistranslated, and people that are against Erdogan have actually used those statements against him. A person in his position needs to weigh in such things before speaking, in my opinion.

On the surface the main reason for these protests to grow to such a large scale seemed to have been political (anti-government). The protests initially began to demonstrate against the construction plans for Gezi park.
 
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Gezi Park is no longer public park


The police sealed off Gezi Park before alternative if tar event.


Source: FNOTW: Gezi Park is no longer public park

Police forces once again blocked entry to Istanbul's Gezi Park on July 28, hours before an alternative iftar event planned by the Anti-Capitalist Muslims, a small religious group that has supported the Gezi protests from the beginning.

The daily Hürriyet reported that the police removed people from the park and closed the entry. At least three people have been detained, while some of the security officers sprayed tear gas at individuals who refused to leave the square.

Iftar refers to the evening meal when Muslims break their fast during the Islamic month of Ramadan. As Ramadan is also the month of almsgiving, many people organise iftar dinners for the poor, students, guests and foreigners.

After the police's prevention of entering the park, a long iftar table was set on the İstiklal Avenue. Despite being surrounded police officer, a lot of people come to break the fast, like during the first day of Ramadan.

During last month, the mass protests in Turkey sparked from the Gezi Park incident. Police then violently evacuated the park after protesters had occupied it for over a week. The park was subsequently sealed off for more than three weeks until the beginning of Ramadan on July 8.

Maybe it is time we can stop calling Gezi Park a 'public' park. We can tell from the news that only people allowed to enter it are police & pro-AKP people.

See more: FNOTW - Free News of the World
 
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Turkey: How media and political bosses work together
Source: FNOTW: Turkey: How media and political bosses work together

The blind coverage of the mainstream media in Turkey has become an obvious issue, especially through and after the mass demonstrations in Turkey during last month. While the gas was teared excessively by the happy police in the streets, TV channels were broadcasting the non-relevant news or talk shows, regarless of the surrounding battles nearby. People in the world might be aware of this issue. However, we might not know it well - how goverment can censor hot news on the media. Yavuz Baydar has revealed the true stories in his article for the New York Times, "In Turkey, media bosses are undermining democracy".


Yavuz Baydar was the formal readers' editor of the daily newspaper Sabah. He was fired after two of his columns were rejected for publication. One column criticised the government's handling of the Gezi Park protest and the other concerned how the relationship between an editor-in-chief and the readers' editor should work, as the Sabah's editor-in-chief had his own column attacking Baydar for his standpoint against the government on the Gezi protests. Yavuz Baydar is also a columnist for the English-language newspaper Today’s Zaman.

As I have read about the blind coverage of the media in Turkey from many brave journalists, my curiosity of the real journalistic performance in Turkey arises. Then I got the detalied answer from Yavuz Baydar's article on the New York Times "In Turkey, Media Bosses Are Undermining Democracy"

Baydar wrote: "Dirty alliances between governments and media companies and their handshakes behind closed doors damage journalists’ role as public watchdogs and prevent them from scrutinizing cronyism and abuses of power. And those who benefit from a continuation of corrupt practices also systematically seek to prevent serious investigative journalism."

"The problem is simple: one need only follow the money. Turkey’s mainstream media is owned by moguls who operate in other major sectors of the economy like telecommunications, banking and construction. Since only a few large TV channels and newspapers make profits, the proprietors tend to keep them as bait for the government, which needs media managers who are submissive to the will of politicians.

It is fertile ground for carrot-and-stick policies. The more willing the proprietors are, the more their greed is met. Several of Turkey’s media moguls have been given extensive favors through public-works contracts, including huge urban construction projects in Istanbul."

Then he reported the examples of the huge mainstream media in Turkey, where I often read from to know about news in Turkey.

"The daily Milliyet, once a flagship of good journalism, was acquired in 2012 by the Demiroren Group, which, among other ventures, is in the liquid propane gas business. In February 2013, Milliyet printed the minutes of talks between Kurdish politicians and the jailed Kurdish rebel leader Abdullah Ocalan. Two days later, a veteran Milliyet columnist, Hasan Cemal, boldly defended the paper’s decision to publish, declaring: “It’s one thing to publish a newspaper. It’s another to rule the country. The two should not be mixed. Everyone should mind their own business.” The scoop and the column infuriated Mr. Erdogan, who publicly condemned the paper and journalism more broadly. Mr. Cemal was given two weeks of forced leave. Upon his return, he wrote a new article on media freedom and independence, which was rejected by the paper’s owner, and Mr. Cemal resigned."

The case of Mr. Cemal above matches Baydar's situation as well. Being a bold columnist, he got formal expel from Sabah, the newspaper where he worked as the independent ombudsman since 2004. Of course, his columns were censored, as I mentioned before.

In his article, I can understand that the media outlet owner receives huge benifit from the goverment if their policies are pro government. As in the case of Ciner Group, the owner of Haberturk TV, Baydar reported that "the conglomerate has in the past years won a number of contracts for energy and electricity distribution". Or "At NTV, a news channel targeted by protesters for its poor coverage, a monthly magazine called NTV Tarih, which focuses exclusively on history, had a cover story in its July issue about Gezi Park’s past. The company’s management asked to see the issue’s content a day before it went to press. Management not only canceled the issue, but also discontinued publication altogether. NTV Tarih’s circulation had been 35,000, among the most commercially successful periodicals in Turkey. The owner of the NTV channel, Dogus Group, happens to have recently won a bid to build the large Galataport — a contract worth over $700 million — that will transform an old port in the center of Istanbul into a modern hub of tourism, shopping and real estate."

The more I read, the more my curiosity was satified, however, the worse I felt for the Turks, and the Kurds as well, and especially for Yavuz Baydar. I am very grateful for his bravery and for what he had revealed to the world. But the safety of him and his family in Turkey comes to my mind. Plenty of jounalists have to say bitter goodbye to their journalistic career in Turkey and many of them have been jailed for the true facts and their opinions. I really hope that Yavuz Baydar will not face the sad ending in Turkey.

See more in FNOTW: Turkey: How media and political bosses work together
 
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Are you by any chance a journalist or a writer yourself?
 
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@T-123456: I am just a writer who wants to learn more about conflicts and conflicts' news that is not covered in BBC, CNN, etc.
@Inspector Spacetime: Thanks for sharing your point of view. Since I don't really trust the news published in Turkish media, I know about the protests from articles in FNOTW. About Erdogan, his words must have been carefully picked before he spoke. As a PM who spoke in their mother tongue, he couldn't choose such a bad word for his people, if he didn't intend to. Other than that, how he treated his people shows his nature. Police were given such huge power to tear excessive amount of gas, hit, shoot people. The PM and his government are too greedy and his police are too violent.

It may be true that the among the protestors, there are the opposition party supporters. However, I think the frustration of Erdogan's long term votes can not drive that many people to the streets and endure the protests that long. Instead, people came down to the streets together to fight to what happened to their friends, family, neighbors, which they observed. The reasons for death, blinding, injuries came from the police and ruling leader with his party.
 
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@T-123456: I am just a writer who wants to learn more about conflicts and conflicts' news that is not covered in BBC, CNN, etc.
@Inspector Spacetime: Thanks for sharing your point of view. Since I don't really trust the news published in Turkish media, I know about the protests from articles in FNOTW. About Erdogan, his words must have been carefully picked before he spoke. As a PM who spoke in their mother tongue, he couldn't choose such a bad word for his people, if he didn't intend to. Other than that, how he treated his people shows his nature. Police were given such huge power to tear excessive amount of gas, hit, shoot people. The PM and his government are too greedy and his police are too violent.

It may be true that the among the protestors, there are the opposition party supporters. However, I think the frustration of Erdogan's long term votes can not drive that many people to the streets and endure the protests that long. Instead, people came down to the streets together to fight to what happened to their friends, family, neighbors, which they observed. The reasons for death, blinding, injuries came from the police and ruling leader with his party.

What i find interesting is the Western countries whom raised hell for the protests in Turkey, remains silent for the coup in Egypt.
After the Gezi Park protests our state channel TRT went to England, to cover the protests against a summit ( I don't remember which one.) English Police didn't let thet livebroadcast vehicle of TRT and when TRT tried 3G to broadcast, they used jammers to block it. West's hypocrisy against Turkey is well known in our country as we (both government and people of Turkey) don't care what West says about us.
 
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What i find interesting is the Western countries whom raised hell for the protests in Turkey, remains silent for the coup in Egypt.
After the Gezi Park protests our state channel TRT went to England, to cover the protests against a summit ( I don't remember which one.) English Police didn't let thet livebroadcast vehicle of TRT and when TRT tried 3G to broadcast, they used jammers to block it. West's hypocrisy against Turkey is well known in our country as we (both government and people of Turkey) don't care what West says about us.

Only against TRT or every broadcasting van?
Also, how do you know this isn't one of Erdogoon's little jokes? You know, owning the people that own all the media in Turkey.....i'm sure you understand where i'm going with this, though don't take it wrong way, it's just a question.

In re to Egypt:

That horse mouthed woman EU has for foreign relations is already in Egypt, talked to Morsi, told he is fine and has access to media. They also think they can mediate some sort of deal....
 
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Only against TRT or every broadcasting van?

Bro, what does it matter ? BBC broadcasted 8 hours straight in Gezi Park protests. But they don't allow it in their country and they still have nerve to criticize democracy in Turkey.

Also, how do you know this isn't one of Erdogoon's little jokes? You know, owning the people that own all the media in Turkey.....i'm sure you understand where i'm going with this, though don't take it wrong way, it's just a question.

You are partially right. But There are still some opposing Media like Sözcü, T24, Halk TV etc... But mainstream media is Pro-AKP


In re to Egypt:

That horse mouthed woman EU has for foreign relations is already in Egypt, talked to Morsi, told he is fine and has access to media. They also think they can mediate some sort of deal....

If the same event had happened in Turkey, they would be now talking about sanctions against Turkey. :)
 
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Bro, what does it matter ? BBC broadcasted 8 hours straight in Gezi Park protests. But they don't allow it in their country and they still have nerve to criticize democracy in Turkey.

Maybe something along these lines:

The Irish Government is passing emergency legislation to enable it to shut down mobile phone networks in a limited area to prevent signals being used to detonate a bomb.

G8 police get boiler suits to disguise them amid fears Northern Ireland summit could be targeted by terrorists | Mail Online

Seems this sort of thing happens at G8 summits, i found news from 2010 from a summit in Canada also describing mobile networks blocked.

You are partially right. But There are still some opposing Media like Sözcü, T24, Halk TV etc... But mainstream media is Pro-AKP

And then your media maybe spins it a bit, only saying "Signals were jammed", "on our vehicle" and leaves out the part where it says wireless signals might be used to detonate something.
Which technically, is not even lying and is factually correct so noone can accuse them of anything.

Ofcourse, i could be wrong. :)
 
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