Now and never situation for PAKISTAN AIR FORCE

[araz]

6 pages of wasted bandwidth. Whatever PAF could have done is being done. With the economic state we are in any more effort will result in bankruptcy. There is only that much of money one can borrow to keep up with the Kumars.
So what is being done? An indegenous fighter capable of firing BVRs, and a rag tag team of 3rd and 4th generation fighters joined together in a netcentric environment. It might look inadequate but so is the IAF. So our emphasis should be on increasing local capacity to build and operate our fighter and increase its capability as it becomes available( Again being done).
At this time the maximum effort should be to improve economy and fiscal discipline with less of looting and more investment into the country. If this can be done we will be fine in 5 years time and perhaps be able to procure a decent fighter. If not we will be bankrupt in which case this competition is frivolous in any case.
People need to understand the nuances of war. There is already an ongoing war which has been unleashed on us which is causing decay of the very core of our existence. There is a two pronged attack one on the economic front and the other on the ideological front. An ideological state needs guiding principles without which it remains rudderless. The people are being kept busy on the other front by economic demands of living while true economic progress is being hindered by unrest and imposing corrupt leadership from the top. This gives rise to disparity and disenchantment which in turn leads to more unrest. It is a viscious cycle which needs to be broken. There appears to be no effort to stem the ideological rot but then again Pakistan and its people need to rethink their own purpose as that in my view is the core issue.
A

 

[Joe Shearer]

6 pages of wasted bandwidth. Whatever PAF could have done is being done. With the economic state we are in any more effort will result in bankruptcy. There is only that much of money one can borrow to keep up with the Kumars.
So what is being done? An indegenous fighter capable of firing BVRs, and a rag tag team of 3rd and 4th generation fighters joined together in a netcentric environment. It might look inadequate but so is the IAF. So our emphasis should be on increasing local capacity to build and operate our fighter and increase its capability as it becomes available( Again being done).
At this time the maximum effort should be to improve economy and fiscal discipline with less of looting and more investment into the country. If this can be done we will be fine in 5 years time and perhaps be able to procure a decent fighter. If not we will be bankrupt in which case this competition is frivolous in any case.
People need to understand the nuances of war. There is already an ongoing war which has been unleashed on us which is causing decay of the very core of our existence. There is a two pronged attack one on the economic front and the other on the ideological front. An ideological state needs guiding principles without which it remains rudderless. The people are being kept busy on the other front by economic demands of living while true economic progress is being hindered by unrest and imposing corrupt leadership from the top. This gives rise to disparity and disenchantment which in turn leads to more unrest. It is a viscious cycle which needs to be broken. There appears to be no effort to stem the ideological rot but then again Pakistan and its people need to rethink their own purpose as that in my view is the core issue.
A

Why are you not posting more?

 

[Tank131]

6 pages of wasted bandwidth. Whatever PAF could have done is being done. With the economic state we are in any more effort will result in bankruptcy. There is only that much of money one can borrow to keep up with the Kumars.
So what is being done? An indegenous fighter capable of firing BVRs, and a rag tag team of 3rd and 4th generation fighters joined together in a netcentric environment. It might look inadequate but so is the IAF. So our emphasis should be on increasing local capacity to build and operate our fighter and increase its capability as it becomes available( Again being done).
At this time the maximum effort should be to improve economy and fiscal discipline with less of looting and more investment into the country. If this can be done we will be fine in 5 years time and perhaps be able to procure a decent fighter. If not we will be bankrupt in which case this competition is frivolous in any case.
People need to understand the nuances of war. There is already an ongoing war which has been unleashed on us which is causing decay of the very core of our existence. There is a two pronged attack one on the economic front and the other on the ideological front. An ideological state needs guiding principles without which it remains rudderless. The people are being kept busy on the other front by economic demands of living while true economic progress is being hindered by unrest and imposing corrupt leadership from the top. This gives rise to disparity and disenchantment which in turn leads to more unrest. It is a viscious cycle which needs to be broken. There appears to be no effort to stem the ideological rot but then again Pakistan and its people need to rethink their own purpose as that in my view is the core issue.
A

Bravo. 110% agreed.

 

[araz]

Why are you not posting more?

My father was a very quiet but a very strong and disciplined person. Once he went to a party and there was Qorma and freshly baked Naan. As per his routine he took a little bit of the Qorma and half a Naan and ate it and stopped. The host came along and asked. What is the matter, is the food not good. My father said on the contrary it is the best Qorma I have had for years. The host then asked, "could I get you something more". My father put his hand on this man's shoulder and said bhai" if you can , get me some appetite".
I have to ask you in the same vein"bhai if you can please get me some spare time".
Enjoy.
A

 

[Joe Shearer]

My father was a very quiet but a very strong and disciploned person. Once he went to a party and there was Qorma and freshly baked Naan. As per his routine he took a little bit of the Qorma and half a Naan and ate it and stopped. The host came along and asked. What is the matter, is the food not good. My father said on the c9ntrarycit is the best Qorma I have had for years. The best then asked, could I get you something. My father put his hand on this man's shoulder and said bhai" if you can , get me some appetite".
I have to ask you in the same vein"bhai if you can please get me some spare time".
Enjoy.
A

Wonderful story, with a great moral to it. I have one, of a similar nature, for your reading pleasure.

A great poet was visiting Isfahan, and having heard of his reputation and heard him recite his poems, a very rich man invited him to dinner. "Now remember," he said anxiously to his cook,"this is a very great man, and is used to being entertained by the richest of people. Dinner must be perfect!" At dinner, the poet gazed bemused at the elaborate spread of dishes, and looked non-plussed. Before starting to eat a very modest meal, he was overheard to murmur to himself,"Ah! for the feasts of Shiraz!"

The rich man blenched; the food turned to ashes in his mouth. He struggled through dinner, and took care to invite the poet again for another day soon afterwards. The poet, an introspective, reserved person, did not know how to refuse politely, and accepted the invitation. On that day, the dinner was truly exceptional. The host sat himself and his guest down and looked on expectantly. The poet seemed even more bewildered, and sat quietly for a few minutes, before murmuring, once again,"Ah! for the feasts of Shiraz!"

The host could not bear it. "Tell me about these banquets, dear Sir, what do they serve? How many courses? What are the herbs and spices they use? Where is the cook to serve such a meal to be found? Even if it costs me great sums of money, I must have one who can cook such a meal as you have been heard to sigh for!"

The poet looked at him, completely set aback.

"I had no idea that I had been heard, dear Sir," said he; "my most profuse apologies! It was so ill-mannered of me, and I beg your forgiveness. But there has been a great misunderstanding. I am a Shirazi, as you might already know, and I did not mean to give you the mistaken impression that we eat such magnificent banquets such as you served twice, and no doubt as you are used to having. We eat very simple food. It was that simple fare that I yearned for, when I said to myself what I did!"

Your tale about your good father reminded me of this tale, and I submit that simplicity is the root of all good things; abstention and abstemious behaviour is most to be treasured. Perhaps it is the rarity of your posts that strikes us greatly when we read them. But even if they be few and far between, remember that they are greatly appreciated, and that I, for one, and no doubt countless others, look forward to your rare interventions.

 

[Khurram2349]

PAF need

1/ at least 2 squadrons of Su-35s immediate

2/ should plan to acquire Chinese J-31 with technology transfer

3/ keep improving JF-17 Thunder with latest updates

4/ Latest AWACS system

4/ And most important - to try to protect every inch of Pakistan aerospace with state of the art Air/ Missile Defense system -

All this need money of course so it is only possible if we have honest sincere leadership who can fix our economy .

 

[The-Hack]

Pakistan Air Force (PAF) was founded on August 14, 1947. PAF played the main role in the country’s defense. During its 70 yearlong existence was PAF involved in four wars with: India and Soviet-Afghan war where PAF played a significant role.

In last 70 years were PAF pilots privileged to fly US fighter jets like F-86 Sabre and F-104 Starfighter, Chinese fighter jets like A-5, F-6, FT-2 or FT-5, and UK fighter jets like Hawker Tempest II, Supermarine Spitfire Mk VIII, Hawker Sea Fury and Supermarine Attacker F Mk.1.

Currently is PAF flying fighter jets like American F-16, Pakistani JF-17 Thunder, Chinese F-7PG and French Mirage III and Mirage V.


Indian Air Force (IAF) as the biggest rival of Pakistan Air Force always had numerical superiority over PAF. In 1965’s war PAF had a technological advantage over IAF which helped PAF to counter Indian Air Force numerical superiority but if we see today the table is totally turned. Today IAF not only have numerical superiority but they also have technological advantage over PAF.

Currently IAF is flying fighter jets like Russian Su-30 MKI, MiG-29, MiG-27 and MiG-21, French Mirage 2000, Indian HAL Tejas and UK Sepecat Jaguar.



Indian Air Force is also at the beginning of modernization. Last year IAF placed an order for 36 French Dassault Rafale jets, one of greatest 4th generation multirole fighter aircraft. Apart from that IAF is in negotiation with SAAB for Gripen E fighter jets and Lockheed Martin for F-16 Block 70 to fulfill its single engine multi-role fighter needs. To fulfill India Navy Aircraft carrier jets needs IAF is also in talk with Boeing for F/A-18 Super Hornet jets. Indian Air Force is also in starting phase of developing its own next generation fighter aircraft. IAF have started its Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) and Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programs.



So for PAF it’s now and never situation. Now it’s time for PAF think tank to take actions for modernization of PAF with 4th and 5th generation fighter jets. On urgent basis PAF should look forward to acquire a 4th generation air superiority fighter jets as soon as possible. Otherwise PAF would be left in the race. Best options for PAF are Russian Su-35. PAF can also go for European fighter jets like Eurofighter Typhoon or French Dassault Rafale but they are way too expensive and Pakistan is under developing countries . Pakistan can’t afford them

Read full article at our website fighterjetsworld

You are right brother, we are fully aware about the future needs and definitely we are working for this........... 4 n 5th, simultaneously

 

[ziaulislam]

No money no honey
Should just focus on thunders...cant pay for 6-8b$ and even if could can't risk sanctions

 

[ziaulislam]

Sorry sir but i want to disagree
Pakistan don't have stable economy , PAF didn't have budget to buy european fighter jets like RAaFLE , eurofighter
But PAF can buy cheap Russian SU35 ! We should rise of voice and make our government to fund paf to make an SU35 deal ASAP because its now and never situation
in next 3 year indian will have 36 rafale they will be making f16 and f18 at home , they currently have 250+ su30

Su 35 cost at least 80M piece
As of now PAF cant even afford to keep the thunders running
Its again 3+b$ for 2 sq

 

[araz]

PAF need

1/ at least 2 squadrons of Su-35s immediate

2/ should plan to acquire Chinese J-31 with technology transfer

3/ keep improving JF-17 Thunder with latest updates

4/ Latest AWACS system

4/ And most important - to try to protect every inch of Pakistan aerospace with state of the art Air/ Missile Defense system -

All this need money of course so it is only possible if we have honest sincere leadership who can fix our economy .

1. Not going to happen much as I hate myself for saying it.
2. Possible in the 2022-25 time frame though it will depend on whether the Chinese absorb the development costs. If they try to pass it on it will be a difficult sell. We may then have to wait for project Azm to bear fruit whenever it does.
3. Happenning and will continue to happen although it seems the JFT is also reaching its design limits and consequently the limitations of upgrades.
4. The key word is "trying". It is certainly trying but the money from the Government is not forthcoming. So as you said it is all about the money.
A

 

[Khurram2349]

I wish someone like Raheel Shareef takes over and take the billions out of the filthy @$$ of bloody politicians .........................our foreign debt will soon be US$ 100 but more then US$ 300 are siphoned out of our country by these mother selling politicians .............if by any chance we get our money back then it will not be difficult to give PAF high tech edge !

 

[randomradio]

You haven't caught up yet, it seems.

83 aircraft Mk1 are on firm order, a total of 324 will be supplied of which the balance beyond 324 will be to Mk2 specification.

I would like to correct you here.

The numbers are 20 Mk1, 103 Mk1A and 201 Mk2.

The IAF is reluctant to buy cheap and light technology, even though on test, the Tejas is found to exceed MiG 21 performance; as an alternative, it has always sought to acquire aircraft that could exceed the capability of Pakistani, and more important, Chinese aircraft in service.

If the LCA is equipped with the Kaveri, then the capability of the jet will be unmatched by all 4th gen jets at high altitude. The Kaveri can deliver full combat power at 40000 feet. All other fighter engines over the Himalayas suffer as much as a 25-30% drop in thrust.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I would like to correct you here.

The numbers are 20 Mk1, 103 Mk1A and 201 Mk2.

Thanks.

If the LCA is equipped with the Kaveri, then the capability of the jet will be unmatched by all 4th gen jets at high altitude. The Kaveri can deliver full combat power at 40000 feet. All other fighter engines over the Himalayas suffer as much as a 25-30% drop in thrust.

I thought, from the on-going discussions at Strategic Forum, that this was a given?

I wish someone like Raheel Shareef takes over and take the billions out of the filthy @$$ of bloody politicians .........................our foreign debt will soon be US$ 100 but more then US$ 300 are siphoned out of our country by these mother selling politicians .............if by any chance we get our money back then it will not be difficult to give PAF high tech edge !

Sustainability.

 

[PurpleButcher]

I wish someone like Raheel Shareef takes over and take the billions out of the filthy @$$ of bloody politicians

The same raheel sharif who got 800+ Kanals in lahore post retirement?

 

[araz]

Thanks.



I thought, from the on-going discussions at Strategic Forum, that this was a given?
We have for years been living above our means. There needs to be a lot of rethinking around what needs and needs not be bought. After much reluctance(possibly also due to lack of local industrial developments) the forces have gone down the route of indegenization.


Sustainability.

Got to say I like the idea of sqeezing some balls for a 100 billion $ to be reptriated. Like all good dreams it remains unrealized.
A