Note to US: Pakistan’s insatiable appetite for F-16s

[dadeechi]

Note to US: Pakistan’s insatiable appetite for F-16s
Despite its plan to induct at least 150 JF-17 Thunder, F-16s remain heart and soul of PAF's fighter squadrons
By Naveed Ahmad
Published: January 21, 2016
The Congress has recently blocked the White House-approved sale of eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan. The deal is viewed to have no relevance to Pakistan’s war against terror besides being used in offensives against India, Washington’s recent ally with a staunch lobby.
Last March, the US House Committee on Foreign Affairs blocked sale of cutter vessels worth $150 million to the Pakistan Navy on the same pretext. Defense purchases from the US have rarely been upfront commercial transactions. The White House never shies away from taking political and diplomatic mileage, thereof.
High performance
Despite its plan to induct at least 150 indigenously produced JF-17 Thunder, F-16s currently remain the heart and soul of the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) fighter squadrons. First acquired during the 1980s, Pakistan has 70 combat-ready fighting falcons. In 2012, the United States delivered 14 used but upgraded F-16s to the PAF. Islamabad managed to acquire older version of 13 Jordanian F-16s in 2014, which will go through a mid-life upgrade programme.
JF-17 finds buyer at Dubai Air Show: report
The formidable fighter jets set a production record of 4,550 units, sold to 26 air forces. Despite technological advances in fighter technology generation after generation, this system is the most affordable and reliable in its category. In a recent competition, F-16 outmaneuvered F35-lighten II, the most expensive fifth-generation fighter.
Along with the F-16, the PAF does eye SU-35, F-35 and F-22 Raptor besides some J series Chinese fifth-generation fighter jets. During the period of US sanctions, Pakistan eagerly pursued purchase of French Mirage 2000 and Swedish JAS 39 Gripen. The deal with the French could not go through mainly due to the high price tag while Sweden succumbed to US pressure.
The risks of continued and added reliance on F-16s are dreadful. Given the influential Indian lobby in the States, sanctions are likely to be slapped against Pakistan in case of war with its eastern neighbour. The other undermining factor will be increased presence of US officials at PAF airbases to prevent the latest version from being shared with China.
Regardless of hiccups such as the Pressler Amendment, which banned most economic and military assistance to Pakistan, and Indian opposition to the sale, F-16s continue to be every Pakistani pilot’s favorite multi-role fighter. Until the Chinese fifth-generation fighter technology matures up and becomes ready to be shared with Pakistan, the Air Force will rely on an assortment of F-16s in good numbers against India’s Su-30, MiG-29, Mirage 2000-v and Rafale jets. The F-16 is a resilient fighter jet with an excellent safety record and since PAF servicemen have a long experience in handling the machine the crew won’t need training if the jets are added up again. Induction of a new platform, on the other end, will be costly and time consuming both.
Pakistan meets JF-17 production target
Give and take
Ironically, F-16s continue to be a determinant of relations between Pakistan and the United States. Although blocking the sale of F-16s to one of the earliest users sounds absurd in Pakistan, US Congressmen believe ties between Washington and Islamabad are not warm enough for such a sensitive transaction to continue.
For Obama administration, sale of a handful of fourth-generation fighters is a means to exercise leverage over Pakistan. Islamabad has already tied itself closely to China, and to an extent Russia. It’s anybody’s guess if the Obama administration will be able to overcome the obstacles to the deal posed in the Congress for the time being.
Naveed Ahmad is a Pakistani investigative journalist and academic with extensive reporting experience in the Middle East and North Africa. He is based in Doha and Istanbul. He tweets @naveed360

Note to US: Pakistan’s insatiable appetite for F-16s - The Express Tribune

 

[Blue Marlin]

Note to US: Pakistan’s insatiable appetite for F-16s
Despite its plan to induct at least 150 JF-17 Thunder, F-16s remain heart and soul of PAF's fighter squadrons
By Naveed Ahmad
Published: January 21, 2016
The Congress has recently blocked the White House-approved sale of eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan. The deal is viewed to have no relevance to Pakistan’s war against terror besides being used in offensives against India, Washington’s recent ally with a staunch lobby.
Last March, the US House Committee on Foreign Affairs blocked sale of cutter vessels worth $150 million to the Pakistan Navy on the same pretext. Defense purchases from the US have rarely been upfront commercial transactions. The White House never shies away from taking political and diplomatic mileage, thereof.
High performance
Despite its plan to induct at least 150 indigenously produced JF-17 Thunder, F-16s currently remain the heart and soul of the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) fighter squadrons. First acquired during the 1980s, Pakistan has 70 combat-ready fighting falcons. In 2012, the United States delivered 14 used but upgraded F-16s to the PAF. Islamabad managed to acquire older version of 13 Jordanian F-16s in 2014, which will go through a mid-life upgrade programme.
JF-17 finds buyer at Dubai Air Show: report
The formidable fighter jets set a production record of 4,550 units, sold to 26 air forces. Despite technological advances in fighter technology generation after generation, this system is the most affordable and reliable in its category. In a recent competition, F-16 outmaneuvered F35-lighten II, the most expensive fifth-generation fighter.
iAlong with the F-16, the PAF does eye SU-35, F-35 and F-22 Raptor besides some J series Chinese fifth-generation fighter jets. During the period of US sanctions, Pakistan eagerly pursued purchase of French Mirage 2000 and Swedish JAS 39 Gripen. The deal with the French could not go through mainly due to the high price tag while Sweden succumbed to US pressure.
The risks of continued and added reliance on F-16s are dreadful. Given the influential Indian lobby in the States, sanctions are likely to be slapped against Pakistan in case of war with its eastern neighbour. The other undermining factor will be increased presence of US officials at PAF airbases to prevent the latest version from being shared with China.
Regardless of hiccups such as the Pressler Amendment, which banned most economic and military assistance to Pakistan, and Indian opposition to the sale, F-16s continue to be every Pakistani pilot’s favorite multi-role fighter. Until the Chinese fifth-generation fighter technology matures up and becomes ready to be shared with Pakistan, the Air Force will rely on an assortment of F-16s in good numbers against India’s Su-30, MiG-29, Mirage 2000-v and Rafale jets. The F-16 is a resilient fighter jet with an excellent safety record and since PAF servicemen have a long experience in handling the machine the crew won’t need training if the jets are added up again. Induction of a new platform, on the other end, will be costly and time consuming both.
Pakistan meets JF-17 production target
Give and take
Ironically, F-16s continue to be a determinant of relations between Pakistan and the United States. Although blocking the sale of F-16s to one of the earliest users sounds absurd in Pakistan, US Congressmen believe ties between Washington and Islamabad are not warm enough for such a sensitive transaction to continue.
For Obama administration, sale of a handful of fourth-generation fighters is a means to exercise leverage over Pakistan. Islamabad has already tied itself closely to China, and to an extent Russia. It’s anybody’s guess if the Obama administration will be able to overcome the obstacles to the deal posed in the Congress for the time being.
Naveed Ahmad is a Pakistani investigative journalist and academic with extensive reporting experience in the Middle East and North Africa. He is based in Doha and Istanbul. He tweets @naveed360

Note to US: Pakistan’s insatiable appetite for F-16s - The Express Tribune

i saw this page and i thought how long would it take to come on pdf? and how would it take for somone to notice the screwup? answer about an hour. the typhoon is the only good western 4++ gen fighter avaliable to pakistan. to bad its £120+ million

true though they should move on from the f16, but the qestion is, to what?

 

[dadeechi]

i saw this page and i thought how long would it take to come on pdf? and how would it take for somone to notice the screwup? answer about an hour. the typhoon is the only good western 4++ gen fighter avaliable to pakistan. to bad its £120+ million

true though they should move on from the f16, but the qestion is, to what?

Yeah I can even understand F-35 but F-22 was like..

 

[Blue Marlin]

Yeah I can even understand F-35 but F-22 was like..

5th gen fighters are probably mid 2020 when the j31 is ready in about 2019. they do need a stop gap to cover for the next 7 years or so. thats why the more advanced f16's are being ordered. to fill the gap.

 

[Strigon]

Need to stop this f16 romance and move on to other options, maybe speed up block 3 jf17. Too many stings attached to f16

 

[General General]

Yeah I can even understand F-35 but F-22 was like..

There might be options available, but there also might be a price to pay. The bigger the reward, the higher the price- I'm just speculating here, so don't jump down my throat everyone.
What if the U.S. offers to give a squadron of F-22 Raptors to Pakistan on the basis of several conditions: Give up all nuclear weapons, the Raptors will themselves be of an equal deterrent to India. In this way, the fear of nuclear proliferation won't be an issue any more. Nor will the fear remain that someone (or a small group in cahoots with each other) within the Pakistani military establishment smuggle one warhead and pass it on for a personal monetary reward or greater perceived good. The worst that can happen with a jet is that it can be destroyed by militants. It can't fly off without extensive crew support and logistics. So it doesn't pose a "threat to the world" as some circles in the U.S. like to call it.
Secondly, the technology of the Raptor will have to be protected. The U.S. can attach a small team of engineers to the squadron for carrying out sensitive maintenance and repairs themselves. This will safeguard their tech from being stolen. Of course this team won't have free reign in military base in Pakistan, they will be working in tandem and co-ordination with their local counter-parts.
I wonder if this is a price or an option that can be considered to put to rest the thorny issue of Pakistan's nuclear weapons. It would also alleviate the problem of a credible deterrence for Pakistan as well. The F-22 will maintain a technological edge over India for many decades to come. And if along the line the U.S. decides to break the accord, Pakistan can always fly the jets to China to be nitpicked. And there goes the U.S's tech gap. In return China can provide, I don't know, several squadrons of their own 5th generation planes to Pakistan.
It's just an explorative thought.

 

[cloud4000]

There might be options available, but there also might be a price to pay. The bigger the reward, the higher the price- I'm just speculating here, so don't jump down my throat everyone.
What if the U.S. offers to give a squadron of F-22 Raptors to Pakistan on the basis of several conditions: Give up all nuclear weapons, the Raptors will themselves be of an equal deterrent to India. In this way, the fear of nuclear proliferation won't be an issue any more. Nor will the fear remain that someone (or a small group in cahoots with each other) within the Pakistani military establishment smuggle one warhead and pass it on for a personal monetary reward or greater perceived good. The worst that can happen with a jet is that it can be destroyed by militants. It can't fly off without extensive crew support and logistics. So it doesn't pose a "threat to the world" as some circles in the U.S. like to call it.
Secondly, the technology of the Raptor will have to be protected. The U.S. can attach a small team of engineers to the squadron for carrying out sensitive maintenance and repairs themselves. This will safeguard their tech from being stolen. Of course this team won't have free reign in military base in Pakistan, they will be working in tandem and co-ordination with their local counter-parts.
I wonder if this is a price or an option that can be considered to put to rest the thorny issue of Pakistan's nuclear weapons. It would also alleviate the problem of a credible deterrence for Pakistan as well. The F-22 will maintain a technological edge over India for many decades to come. And if along the line the U.S. decides to break the accord, Pakistan can always fly the jets to China to be nitpicked. And there goes the U.S's tech gap. In return China can provide, I don't know, several squadrons of their own 5th generation planes to Pakistan.
It's just an explorative thought.

Speculate all you want, but you're still dreaming. US is not giving Pakistan its most advanced fighter. It won't even give it to Israel, its closest ally, what makes you think it will give it to Pakistan? And no way, Pakistan is giving ups its nuclear weapons for any reason.

 

[The Sandman]

i saw this page and i thought how long would it take to come on pdf? and how would it take for somone to notice the screwup? answer about an hour. the typhoon is the only good western 4++ gen fighter avaliable to pakistan. to bad its £120+ million

true though they should move on from the f16, but the qestion is, to what?

I wish we could've afford this such a beast we should get away from F16 now but money is the issue imo maybe some Chinese fighters like J11?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

F16 it is for now , thank you USA

 

[C130]

i saw this page and i thought how long would it take to come on pdf? and how would it take for somone to notice the screwup? answer about an hour. the typhoon is the only good western 4++ gen fighter avaliable to pakistan. to bad its £120+ million

true though they should move on from the f16, but the qestion is, to what?

if KSA,UAE,Qatar, and Kuwait chip in to buy Pakistan 24 to 48 of them, that's a real possiblity

I've seen threads on here on how desperate KSA is for Pakistan support politically and militarily.

Need to stop this f16 romance and move on to other options, maybe speed up block 3 jf17. Too many stings attached to f16

JF-17 any block won't be a true replacement for the F-16

If the India Mig-29 could hold the F-16 back in reserve in a time of war imagine what the Su-30MKI would do facing against JF-17

 

[cloud4000]

I wish we could've afford this such a beast we should get away from F16 now but money is the issue imo maybe some Chinese fighters like J11?

What makes you think Europe will be a more reliable supplier than US?

if KSA,UAE,Qatar, and Kuwait chip in to buy Pakistan 24 to 48 of them, that's a real possiblity

I've seen threads on here on how desperate KSA is for Pakistan support politically and militarily.

It's not about the money. It's all politics. Congress is blocking a mere 8 F-16s, why would they give a green light to 24 or 48 of them? Because Gulf states say so? Given the way oil prices are now, I doubt they have cash to spare.

 

[C130]

What makes you think Europe will be a more reliable supplier than US?



It's not about the money. It's all politics. Congress is blocking a mere 8 F-16s, why would they give a green light to 24 or 48 of them? Because Gulf states say so? Given the way oil prices are now, I doubt they have cash to spare.

congress is blocking the 8 F-16s because it wouldn't make much a difference in the fight against terror, and why p-off India who is buying billions of defense hardware possible billions more in the future.

the GCC has the money and I mean split among them

$2 billion from each member would be plenty to buy the Typhoon and all the other accessories for it.

 

[dadeechi]

5th gen fighters are probably mid 2020 when the j31 is ready in about 2019. they do need a stop gap to cover for the next 7 years or so. thats why the more advanced f16's are being ordered. to fill the gap.

I am pretty sure F-16 deal would be cleared after some tamasha. Every party(US, India & Pakistan) needs some story to sell to their constituency.

Need to stop this f16 romance and move on to other options, maybe speed up block 3 jf17. Too many stings attached to f16

No doubt JF-17 is a good fighter but you have to consider the following

1) F-16 is a very matured platform while JF-17 needs more time to mature

2) PAF has invested lot in F-16 training and knows them inside out

3) A mature JF-17 may be in the same price range as F-16 and the TCO of F-16 may actually be lower than JF-17

F-16 deal would surely be approved.

There might be options available, but there also might be a price to pay. The bigger the reward, the higher the price- I'm just speculating here, so don't jump down my throat everyone.
What if the U.S. offers to give a squadron of F-22 Raptors to Pakistan on the basis of several conditions: Give up all nuclear weapons, the Raptors will themselves be of an equal deterrent to India. In this way, the fear of nuclear proliferation won't be an issue any more. Nor will the fear remain that someone (or a small group in cahoots with each other) within the Pakistani military establishment smuggle one warhead and pass it on for a personal monetary reward or greater perceived good. The worst that can happen with a jet is that it can be destroyed by militants. It can't fly off without extensive crew support and logistics. So it doesn't pose a "threat to the world" as some circles in the U.S. like to call it.
Secondly, the technology of the Raptor will have to be protected. The U.S. can attach a small team of engineers to the squadron for carrying out sensitive maintenance and repairs themselves. This will safeguard their tech from being stolen. Of course this team won't have free reign in military base in Pakistan, they will be working in tandem and co-ordination with their local counter-parts.
I wonder if this is a price or an option that can be considered to put to rest the thorny issue of Pakistan's nuclear weapons. It would also alleviate the problem of a credible deterrence for Pakistan as well. The F-22 will maintain a technological edge over India for many decades to come. And if along the line the U.S. decides to break the accord, Pakistan can always fly the jets to China to be nitpicked. And there goes the U.S's tech gap. In return China can provide, I don't know, several squadrons of their own 5th generation planes to Pakistan.
It's just an explorative thought.

You have a probable theory but instead of F-22, US would rather offer Pakistan a NATO type protection instead.

As I understand the current proposal is that Pakistan would get the same benefits and memberships (NSG, MTCR etc) as were offered to India in return for the nuclear deal. Pakistan has neither accepted not rejected the offer yet.

 

[CHD]

The day Pakistan retires the last F16 will be a great day in the history of Pakistan.For the time just play around with US if they give some F16 then good enough otherwise no more deals with the devil, and start investing in J-31 and also make a case for future so we can see j-20 too.

 

[C130]

The day Pakistan retires the last F16 will be a great day in the history of Pakistan.For the time just play around with US if they give some F16 then good enough otherwise no more deals with the devil, and start investing in J-31 and also make a case for future so we can see j-20 too.

J-31 sure, but J-20 fat chance Pakistan won't retire it's F-16 for another 20 years at minimum.


why haven't you bought JH-7B, J-10, or J-11 yet from China is perplexing. what is holding Pakistan back from pulling the trigger?? or is it China who isn't playing ball.