North Korea torpedoed South's navy ship

[applesauce]

The fact that the Korean peninsula was partitioned meant the PRC was unable to defeat the US/NATO forces, no matter which US general was killed.

i dont think the point is china winning, there are differing expectations,on one side UN led by USA using the latest tech, on the other korea, china and some soviet air assistance with the chinese and koreans using captured(Japanese) ww2 weapons(and older) the fact that the much Superior UN forces coundnt go past the 38th parallel is a victory for the communist (note soviet only had some airman in this while the US has large ground,nava and air units)

The number of US aircraft downed in the Vietnam War is no way indicative of Chinese military capability. It simply meant the USAF was willing to fight. But if you are interested in a bit of how the USAF frightened the North Vietnamese Air Force, I suggest you read up on Operation Bolo.

US air-force(naval air in this case) is far superior to plaaf thats for sure but still korea is connected bby land to china, and plaaf while weak comparatively would not be a walk over like iraq(who buried their planes) and while all bets would be with the us to have complete air superiority we just wouldn't know till it happens(also mix in the anti-air units s-300, hq-9 etc.)

 

[Thomas]

So, the USAF losing 1000 planes to a backward 3rd world country is a baseless story! Most of the people of this world think otherwise, perhaps lately you've been high on dope. I've heard that the Afghans have tripled their dope production, the harvest is really good under the present regime.

If you are referring to Vietnam. The U.S. lost more then a 1000 aircraft. Much of it due to AAA and SAM fire. It was the height of the cold war. The U.S. had never fought a major war before against radar guided AAA & SAM's. Especially with the Soviets pouring such huge amounts of it in. It was a definite learning curve that the U.S. would use to it's advantage despite the high costs.

It was the Vietnam that showed the need for stealth and electronic counter measures in combating air defenses. You could say that if it wasn't for Vietnam. The U.S. wouldn't have much of the sophisticated weaponry it has today.

North Korea does not have the luxury that North Vietnam had. you will not see the Russians or Chinese this time pouring in arms. In the event of a major conflict with the U.S. and South Korea.

 

[Thomas]

the fact that the much Superior UN forces coundnt go past the 38th parallel is a victory for the communist

Who told you that U.N. forces couldn't go past the 38th parallel?

In fact U.N. forces were approaching the Yalu river when the Chinese entered the war. What the Chinese used effectively against the U.N. forces was the vast numbers of troops. Chinese human wave attacks were infamous. In some instance soldiers couldn't fire fast enough to keep from being over run. This pushed the U.N. back to the 38th parallel.

I would be interested to know if that is what is taught in Chinese schools. That the U.N. never got past the 38th parallel.

 

[ambidex]

I think Americans can not afford any war now. Most of the Proxies and allies have to think alternatives or may have to rent US army in future.

US Armed Forces soon available ?For Rent" - DominicanToday.com

 

[below_freezing]

Who told you that U.N. forces couldn't go past the 38th parallel?

In fact U.N. forces were approaching the Yalu river when the Chinese entered the war. What the Chinese used effectively against the U.N. forces was the vast numbers of troops. Chinese human wave attacks were infamous. In some instance soldiers couldn't fire fast enough to keep from being over run. This pushed the U.N. back to the 38th parallel.

I would be interested to know if that is what is taught in Chinese schools. That the U.N. never got past the 38th parallel.

utterly dishonest. soldiers can always fire fast enough with automatic weapons. poorly trained US soldiers did not, however, know how to deal with chinese infantry tactics. the undisciplined US conscripts of the 50's were easily surrounded and ambushed at night.

who said that the us NEVER crossed the 38th? they crossed it twice: once in conquering north korea, and the other time when running from the PVA. the north koreans made no contribution to the actual fighting of the korean war, they were swept away by the far superior US forces within months. then those same US forces were pushed back across the 38th. our war began at the yalu and ended 400 km to the south, that's a victory.

also applesauce i don't think PLAAF is that bad compared to USAF. we're about 15-20 years behind, no doubt, but USAF in 1992 was still extremely powerful, and i don't think USAF pilots today can confidently say they will wipe out the USAF of 1992.

 

[gambit]

utterly dishonest. soldiers can always fire fast enough with automatic weapons. poorly trained US soldiers did not, however, know how to deal with chinese infantry tactics. the undisciplined US conscripts of the 50's were easily surrounded and ambushed at night.

No...It is YOU who are dishonest. Given enough manpower, the human wave tactic will overrun any position. The human wave tactic is employed when there is a combination of poorly educated leadership and poorly trained soldiers.

who said that the us NEVER crossed the 38th?

Your pal did...

the fact that the much Superior UN forces coundnt go past the 38th parallel

You guys could not even keep your made up history straight.

also applesauce i don't think PLAAF is that bad compared to USAF. we're about 15-20 years behind, no doubt, but USAF in 1992 was still extremely powerful, and i don't think USAF pilots today can confidently say they will wipe out the USAF of 1992.

Being five years behind in this day and age is enough to give any military leadership pause. If there is a second Korean war and if the PLAAF want a shooting fight against the USN and the USAF, the PLAAF will be poofed.

 

[Thomas]

There are different types of human wave attacks. The type the Chinese generally used in Korea were small units that would infiltrate at night as close as possible then rise up and charge. while each unit was small there would be successive units attacking in a seemingly unending wave of people.

My uncle who was in the army there at the time. Can recount vividly still such attacks and the effect it had. On two occasions his unit had to resort to bayonets and hand to hand.

 

[shaktiman2010]

Enough guys. US lost to China in Vietnam war. So, whats the big deal in it? Noone is saying that it didn't.

The topic here is, whether US will allow ROK to act on north or will keep bullying the ROK, not to act and keep rewarding DPRK.

IMO, US can't afford a war with China and China won't allow US to get beyond into North of ROK.

Also, it helps both China and USA to stay away from war and let the minnies(ROK and DPRK) keep pulling each other. It will keep them in business too. DPRK will buy handsomely from China and ROK from US.

Win-win for both powers and minnies will be losers as usual.

 

[below_freezing]

Enough guys. US lost to China in Vietnam war. So, whats the big deal in it? Noone is saying that it didn't.

The topic here is, whether US will allow ROK to act on north or will keep bullying the ROK, not to act and keep rewarding DPRK.

IMO, US can't afford a war with China and China won't allow US to get beyond into North of ROK.

Also, it helps both China and USA to stay away from war and let the minnies(ROK and DPRK) keep pulling each other. It will keep them in business too. DPRK will buy handsomely from China and ROK from US.

Win-win for both powers and minnies will be losers as usual.

agreed, but the US always wants more and more. kim il sung was going to surrender but the US pushed past the 38th and wanted to conquer all of north korea.

also gambit, this is the least behind china has ever been in 150 years, in Korea we were using weapons that were something like WW1 level except for a few MiGs donated by the Soviets, in Vietnam we were where the US was in WW2 (but with a much weaker navy and a much stronger air force, overall coming about to be about the same). being 15 years behind the USAF is nothing to be ashamed of, every other air force is far further behind.

 

[Thomas]

agreed, but the US always wants more and more. kim il sung was going to surrender but the US pushed past the 38th and wanted to conquer all of north korea.

also gambit, this is the least behind china has ever been in 150 years, in Korea we were using weapons that were something like WW1 level except for a few MiGs donated by the Soviets, in Vietnam we were where the US was in WW2 (but with a much weaker navy and a much stronger air force, overall coming about to be about the same). being 15 years behind the USAF is nothing to be ashamed of, every other air force is far further behind.

Both sides used predominantly WWII weapons. Of which the Russians supplied the bulk for the North Koreans and Chinese. The war did introduce jet warfare on a large scale. The Mig-15 and subsequent F-86 revolutionized air warfare.

 

[CONNAN]

DOES THIS THREAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH INDIA DEFENCE REQUEST MODERATORS TO MERGE THE THREAD IN APPROPRIATE SECTION

 

[applesauce]

Who told you that U.N. forces couldn't go past the 38th parallel?

In fact U.N. forces were approaching the Yalu river when the Chinese entered the war. What the Chinese used effectively against the U.N. forces was the vast numbers of troops. Chinese human wave attacks were infamous. In some instance soldiers couldn't fire fast enough to keep from being over run. This pushed the U.N. back to the 38th parallel.

I would be interested to know if that is what is taught in Chinese schools. That the U.N. never got past the 38th parallel.

i meant after china joined the war the UN was only able to stalemate around the 38th, also i went to school in the US

and all china had to use were mass wave? clearly you dont know anything about the war. UN forces had about the same number of troops as china/n.korea/soviets had in the war, given same numbers and superior tech on the UN's side how on earth did mass waves work?, easy it wasnt human waves attack that push the UN back.

 

[syntax_error]

the hell is this thread doing in India Defence section ???

 

[Thomas]

i meant after china joined the war the UN was only able to stalemate around the 38th, also i went to school in the US

and all china had to use were mass wave? clearly you dont know anything about the war. UN forces had about the same number of troops as china/n.korea/soviets had in the war, given same numbers and superior tech on the UN's side how on earth did mass waves work?, easy it wasnt human waves attack that push the UN back.

I know quite a lot about war. And in the case of the Korean war have several family members that served in it. I know it was not just human wave attacks. and never claimed it was the only reason. But it was a big factor. It is a well documented historical fact. Another factor was stretched supply lines due to the fast advance into North Korea.

 

[Thomas]

the hell is this thread doing in India Defence section ???

ehh, it seems to like to move around a lot. perhaps it should be in the world affairs section?