North Korea Defence Forum

[TaiShang]

The DPRK is one step closer to assured sovereignty.

Now there is little rationale for the US regime to station troops in the South.

Why not leave Northeast Asia now that you are rendered almost obsolete?

US should leave NEA.

Or, prepare to keep its military stored in well-ventilated deep bunkers.

 

[terranMarine]

Deter DPRK?

Are you naive or stupid?

SK is strong enough to fend for itself.

The American presence serves only one purpose and that's to deter China and Russia.

NK will carry on doing what it has been doing for years and there is nothing the Americans can do about it.

Exactly, hence the 6 party talks, talk this talk that it always ends up as talking or no talking
DPRK keeps testing and testing and testing .....

 

[TaiShang]

There was plenty of middle ground in Libya, in which Colonel Qaddafi was given one too many chances to single-handedly halt the systematic killings of his own population. Iraq's conflict was not centered around a tangible WMD threat as media outlets assume it to be.

No, he was on the run when he was hunted down by the NATO jets. The systematic killing also was part of the Arab Spring narrative. Clinton and some European capitals were already eager to eliminate him.

If the US were concerned about civilians being killed, they would stop providing assistance to the Saudi regime.

The lack of a US armed response to North Korea precipitates out of numerous variables and circumstances, which may not necessarily be tied to wariness of the DPRK's military. If a cost-benefit analysis deemed that the DPRK nuclear threat imparts more harm and risk to US & her allies than a military intervention, the latter would almost be guaranteed to occur.

The lack of response is because of the presence of China, which won't allow a US military action near its borders.

Otherwise, US regime would at least carry out precision strikes without a full-fledged invasion.

Exactly, hence the 6 party talks, talk this talk that it always ends up as talking or no talking
DPRK keeps testing and testing and testing .....

DPRK is doing the only thing that the US has left to it. No other practical options given that US is actively seeking a regime change in the country.

 

[Akasa]

Deter DPRK?

Are you naive or stupid?

SK is strong enough to fend for itself.

The American presence serves only one purpose and that's to deter China and Russia.

NK will carry on doing what it has been doing for years and there is nothing the Americans can do about it.

Ah, I was wondering when the ad hominems would begin rolling in.

It's simple: without a nuclear DPRK, the US would be robbed of an acceptable rationale to remain in ROK. Granted, the ulterior motive might very well be the containment of Russia/China, but without an exterior "enemy" to warrant an US presence, American taxpayers would find any other reason fairly tough to digest. Hence, public support would wane and Congress funding would take the same path. In other words, DPRK's nuclear weapons are an enabler for continued American presence in the Pacific.

 

[terranMarine]

US doesn't have to send troops to attack DPRK, it can launch cruise missiles and destroy DPRK nuclear plants. So why didn't Americans do it? Yeah because that is a declaration of war and when shit hits the fan, trust me China will get involved.

 

[TaiShang]

It's simple: without a nuclear DPRK, the US would be robbed of an acceptable rationale to remain in ROK.

But, as it seems, the alleged strategic patience is now putting the very presence of the US in the Korean Peninsula in danger. If this is/was the rationale for inaction (outside being stopped by China and Russia at the UNSC), that was an extremely short-sighted one.

Again, does not fit well with your high opinion of US strategic mind of recent decades.

Granted, the ulterior motive might very well be the containment of Russia/China, but without an exterior "enemy" to warrant an US presence, American taxpayers would find any other reason fairly tough to digest.

US taxpayers can be motivated through many ways. You do not need a Korea on the brink of nuclear strike capability to convince them.

US convinced the public about the invasion of Iraq because some 19 terrorists (16 of them from Saudi Arabia, the rest from Afghanistan) attacked Twin Towers.

Again, a high opinion of US public's rationality.

In other words, DPRK's nuclear weapons are an enabler for continued American presence in the Pacific.

It is just the vice versa; in fact, US military presence in the Asia Pacific well predates DPRK's nuclear weapons program, which started in 2006.

 

[terranMarine]

yeah and it goes back all the way to the 50s. So claiming a nuclear DPRK as excuse for US presence in ROK is nothing but full of crap.

 

[Akasa]

No, he was on the run when he was hunted down by the NATO jets.

Which occurred after he began firing on his own populace from the ground and from the air. Even his own pilots defected after given orders to carry out such atrocities.

The lack of response is because of the presence of China, which won't allow a US military action near its borders.

And yet the US military trains, stays, and replenishes itself, a mere 1000 km away from the Chinese border. So much for China's all-mighty presence, eh?

The question should be: if the United States deemed it necessary to use its military in the peninsula, would the Chinese be sufficiently daft to intervene on North Korea's part? I don't think we need a comprehensive comparison of the US/PRC militaries to answer that question.

DPRK is doing the only thing that the US has left to it. No other practical options given that US is actively seeking a regime change in the country.

Of course North Korea is out of options. The United States has time on its side.

 

[TaiShang]

Which occurred after he began firing on his own populace from the ground and from the air. Even his own pilots defected after given orders to carry out such atrocities.

No, there was limited insurgency in Sirte, and it was about to be subdued. The rest of the country was practically contained.

However, his assassination led to the opening up of the country as a safe haven of AQ in North Africa, from which the Al Shabab and Bako Haram sprang stronger.

And yet the US military trains, stays, and replenishes itself, a mere 1000 km away from the Chinese border. So much for China's all-mighty presence, eh?

Yes. As long as Koreans and Japanese are fine with that, China can do little about that.

If the DPRK allowed a US military base, China would have little say on this, as well.

What is your point?

The question should be: if the United States deemed it necessary to use its military in the peninsula, would the Chinese be sufficiently daft to intervene on North Korea's part?

China would intervene in a certain way and make sure that Korea is not united under the US leadership and presence.

That was what kept the US at bay. Otherwise, they had a good ten-year long window of opportunity to strategically strike and take out the DPRK's nuclear capabilities.

This would not take away the rationale to stay in Asia because the US would still make a monster from the North.

Of course North Korea is out of options. The United States has time on its side.

China has time. The DPRK has strategic advantage now that they have achieved significant progress in the past ten years.

The US has time on its side to move afar or deeper underground. The DPRK will not stop until they have absolute nuclear capability. And the US is toothless other than convening petty UNSC meetings in which it cannot dominate.

 

[MarkusS]

Let me guess, another sanction from the US. The reaction from US is getting so dull and predictable they ain't gonna launch an invasion against a 1 mln army attached to the Dragon
Placing THAAD at the doorstep won't change a thing, DPRK will keep on testing nukes while China and Russia cooperate closely on how to deal with the situation. You can bet China ain't gonna sanction our ally.

Having an abomination like North Korea as Ally says more about China than about North Korea.

 

[TaiShang]

Having an abomination like North Korea as Ally says more about China than about North Korea.

Having an abomination like the US as Ally says more about Italy than about the US.

 

[terranMarine]

Having an abomination like North Korea as Ally says more about China than about North Korea.

Oh it's superboy , how's the commercial going? Shouldn't you be rescuing your Italian citizens right now instead of trolling in FE section?

 

[MarkusS]

Having an abomination like the US as Ally says more about Italy than about the US.

USA dont put 1/3 of their people into concentration camps. Americans arent eating grass and starve.

North Korea is the eternal darkness

You may nortice that China in the north and South Korea are brightly shining...while North Korea is sunken in darkness.

I have a question for you. Would you want chinese people to live under north korean conditions?

Since its obvious that North Korea starts to desintegrate since more and more top level officials run away and hide in the west i wonder whats your stance in the moment the regime falls?

I would advice you the documentation "Kimjongilia".

Its realy good. We saw it at school. It gives the people from North Korea a face.

We hear all those bizarre things from there. People laugh but this is real people suffering. A faceless mass of human beings.

I hope you are prepared well. Because this regime is highly instable and gets more and more erratic.

Kim also threatened China with nuclear strike. The moment Kim falls chaos will break out since people will flood at the borders.

 

[TaiShang]

USA dont put 1/3 of their people into concentration camps. Americans arent eating grass and starve.

North Korea is the eternal darkness

You may nortice that China in the north and South Korea are brightly shining...while North Korea is sunken in darkness.

I have a question for you. Would you want chinese people to live under north korean conditions?

Since its obvious that North Korea starts to desintegrate since more and more top level officials run away and hide in the west i wonder whats your stance in the moment the regime falls?

I would advice you the documentation "Kimjongilia".

Its realy good. We saw it at school. It gives the people from North Korea a face.

We hear all those bizarre things from there. People laugh but this is real people suffering. A faceless mass of human beings.

I hope you are prepared well. Because this regime is highly instable and gets more and more erratic.

Kim also threatened China with nuclear strike. The moment Kim falls chaos will break out since people will flood at the borders.

"Abomination" is relative then. You should not make moral inferences.

It is geopolitics. Not moralism.

So, you can cut short on the enlightening post on the horrible conditions in the DPRK.

As if you would really care.

You should know better than others, given your lecturing on how to treat Syrian refugees in Italy to scare them off.

Same goes here.

Wasn't Machiavelli an Italian?

 

[MarkusS]

Abomination is relative then. You should not make moral inferences.

It is geopolitics. Not moralism.

So, you can cut short on the enlightening post on the horrible conditions in the DPRK.

As if you would really care.

You should know better than others, given your lecturing on how to treat Syrian refugees in Italy to scare them off.

Same goes here.

Wasn't Machiavelli an Italian?

You are right. Its double standards by me. But the situation is different. I want my nation safe and i belieev supporting Kim will bring china in danger. He is crazy. The chinese government knows this. Supporting this crazy psycho is dangerous.

Does china have any plans what to do when this thing collapses? I guess millions will try to cross into china then?