Nomination of DG ISI is my authority: PM Imran Khan says in cabinet meeting today

[ziaulislam]

Have you been taking trolling classes from @El Sidd lately? Man you are just damn good at it.

Men what should i do..the grown ups were once children under shareef sahab, were stunted due to malnourishment and have difficulty understanding logic now when they have grown up

You can educate them, give them PhD but you cant built in logic into them

 

[VCheng]

Any such decision is taken on advice but that PMIK has made it known that he is the final arbiter tells us the PM is no stooge as people think. The final decision will be arrived after discussions. This sort of thing happens everywhere only that in Pakistan it recieves publicity from the whole world including your country.

Here is a fact. In every country which have large militaries they carry huge clout and institutional inertia. The best example is USA. The White House for some time had wanted to pull out of Afghanistan - possibly going back to Obama. However the huge pressure of Pentagon and the generals forced Obama to go in the other direction. Thus the fiasco continued and another decade of American treasure and lives were lost for no purpoose at all. If USA had left 24 hours after OBL was killed the decade of waste would have been saved.

Hoswever all those star studded generals at the Pentagon did not want to leave and hubris kept them asking for more soldiers, more money, more time all the while giving excuses for the failure. It was Trump who finally pushed it through and we know the generals resented him - behind the scenes there were almost coup like conditions emerging between Trump and the vast military, pentagon complex.

So if there is disagreements and differances in Pakistan it is no big deal. Pakistan is not North Korea.

Pakistan is truly unique. It is no North Korea, and it surely is not USA either. But then, every country must do what suits its own particular systems and circumstances, whatever that might entail.

 

[Tomcats]

What is the process of appointing Pakistan's spymaster?
Analysts are clear that there does not seem to be a concrete procedure in place, at least not in the public domain.

Urooj Imran | Sana ChaudhryUpdated 4 minutes ago

Any shuffle in the Pakistan Army's top brass is usually the subject of intense discussion and speculation in political circles.
However, the recent appointment of Lt Gen Nadeem Anjum as the new director general of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) has garnered a different sort of attention and raised questions about relations between the civil and military leadership.
The move comes at a critical time for Pakistan as the country deals with the Taliban's takeover of neighbouring Afghanistan and the precarious situation in the region.

Read: Stand-off on ISI chief's appointment has exposed growing gap between civil-military leadership

Despite the passage of several days, the government has yet to issue an official notification for the ISI chief's appointment.
Prime Minister Imran Khan has told the federal cabinet that he wants outgoing spymaster Lt Gen Faiz Hameed to continue for some time due to the critical situation in Afghanistan.
The whole situation has raised several questions: who has the final say when it comes to appointing the DG ISI? Who does the ISI report to? Can the ISI chief be a civilian?
What is the process of appointing the ISI chief?
Analysts whom Dawn.com reached out to were all clear about one thing — there does not seem to be a concrete procedure for appointing the ISI chief, at least none in the public domain.
Dawn's Resident Editor in Islamabad, Fahd Husain, said the closest we have come to knowledge of a proper procedure is PTI chief whip Amir Dogar's statement.
Speaking to Dawn on Tuesday, Dogar had explained that a summary had to be sent to the prime minister with three names out of which he selected one probable whom he deemed fit for the office.
"There has been a conventional sort of understanding that because the ISI reports to the prime minister and was created by an executive order, that the premier has the authority to appoint the chief," Husain said.
Senior Dawn correspondent Syed Baqir Sajjad also added that there is no set procedure.
"The convention is that the chief of army staff (COAS) holds consultations with the prime minister regarding potential candidates for the post. He also suggests who is best suited for the job.
"Once there is a consensus between the two, the defence ministry sends a summary to the premier for the appointment of that person as the director general of the ISI," he said.
Author and political analyst Zahid Hussain told Dawn.com that while the power to transfer or post an official in the ISI lay with the army chief, the general practice has been that the intelligence chief is appointed by the prime minister because the institution reports to the PM.
Elaborating, Hussain said that while the PM decided who was to head the intelligence chief, it was the army chief's authority when to transfer and post an official.
"The decision to transfer Faiz was according to [precedent] but the prime minister's insistence on keeping Faiz as chief was not right."
Can the DG ISI be a civilian?
According to the analysts, there is no restriction on a civilian being appointed to head the intelligence agency. However, there is no quota of how many civilians or armed forces personnel will be in the agency.
Zahid noted that Benazir had appointed retired General Shamsur Rehman Kallu who was no longer a serving army official and thus considered to be a civilian.
Sajjad noted that hypothetically speaking, there was no bar on a civilian becoming the spymaster.
"There are civilian positions in the ISI hierarchy besides those held by serving military officials, but I'm not sure if a certain quota has been fixed for those jobs," he said.
Who does the ISI fall under?
Speaking on a TV show, retired Air Marshal Shahzad Chaudhry said that the ISI is bound to follow the prime minister's directives.
"[But] the people working there are bound to follow the COAS. When the army chief posts out a brigadier or major general [...] while an intimation goes to the cabinet secretary, the prime minister's permission is not necessary.
"So the institution is [answerable to] the premier but the manpower — 30-40 per cent of it is permanent and some of it in rotation. Which is why tenures last for two to three years.
"So the ISI chief will serve for two to three years, undoubtedly at the pleasure of the prime minister of Pakistan." He said that three to four options will go to the premier and he will select one of the candidates.
When the tenure is about to end, the COAS will intimate the premier and a new panel of candidates will be sent, he said.
He added that it was not possible that the COAS or the posting authority had not spoken about the need for transferring the current DG ISI so that he can qualify for the next position.
"So there is a cycle, a process and questions have been raised about this process," he said, adding that there was a system within the military that determined what an officer should do within each rank.
"So an unnecessary 'storm in a teacup' has been raised," he said.
What is the legal procedure?
Addressing a post-cabinet presser, Information Minister Fawad Chaudhry on Tuesday said that the legal procedure would be followed for appointing the new spymaster. But as is evident from the opinion of analysts, there is no set law in this case.
"Fawad said the legal process would be followed. But if it was clear what the legal process is, he would have mentioned it which means that it is not yet clear," Fahd said.
"Or we can conclude that a debate is being held on that legal process. We can also conclude [...] since he said the legal process would now be followed, was the legal process not followed previously?"
Sajjad added that the premier does not necessarily have a final say in the appointment. "However, his concurrence is needed for the appointment."
He added that he was not aware of any written statute delineating the procedure for the appointment of the ISI chief.
This is not the first time that a lack of set rules has led to ambiguity over the procedure of postings and appointments in the armed forces.
In August 2019, the prime minister had approved Gen Bajwa's extension as army chief nearly three months before he was due to retire — the second time in nearly a decade that the country's top general had their traditional term extended.
The matter had also been challenged in the apex court, which had temporarily allowed Gen Bajwa to stay on as the army chief, while directing parliament to legislate on the matter.
In January 2020, the parliament had passed three key bills seeking to empower the prime minister to reappoint and extend the tenures of the services chiefs and chairman, joint chiefs of staff committee, marking an end to the long and controversial tale.
Despite the many questions that remain, earlier today the information minister said that the process of consultation between PM Imran and COAS General Qamar Javed Bajwa "had been completed", and that the process of a fresh appointment was under way.
According to Chaudhry, the "civil-military leadership has once again proven that all institutions are united for the country's stability, integrity and progress."
However, those within political circles are still awaiting the notification announcing the appointment of the new DG ISI.

 

[ziaulislam]

Have you been taking trolling classes from @El Sidd lately? Man you are just damn good at it.

Comrade @El Sidd is my mentor

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Pakistan is truly unique.

Every country is unique. Your so bought out by the hype that you can't look beyond the tinsel and decorations spun around the democracy in USA. The truth is your generals are nothing but corporate war mongers who make millions out of the military-industrial copmplex which now has firmly embedded within the US political system. The president is merely now face of this vast complex whose wiggle room is now reduced to crying out for this complex and proving his loyalty to Israel. Vast number of Americans have zero faith in their democracy and last years ruckus or insurrection was merely manifestation of this.

The CIA, Pentagon, the generals, the massive military-industrial complex and corporate America is what runs the country. And your generals end up being multi-millionaires with sinecure posts waiting for them in the corporate America on retiring from the military. In Pakistan military must blush with envy at the dollars waiting at end of service.

 

[VCheng]

Every country is unique. Your so bought out by the hype that you can't look beyond the tinsel and decorations spun around the democracy in USA. The truth is your generals are nothing but corporate war mongers who make millions out of the military-industrial copmplex which now has firmly embedded within the US political system. The president is merely now face of this vast complex whose wiggle room is now reduced to crying out for this complex and proving his loyalty to Israel. Vast number of Americans have zero faith in their democracy and last years ruckus or insurrection was merely manifestation of this.

The CIA, Pentagon, the generals, the massive military-industrial complex and corporate America is what runs the country. And your generals end up being multi-millionaires with sinecure posts waiting for them in the corporate America on retiring from the military. In Pakistan military must blush with envy at the dollars waiting at end of service.

And just what has your rant above to do with the topic of this thread?

Ignored.

Now, do you have anything relevant to say about the topic, such as the real issues of lines of command as they pertain to important appointments such as the DG ISI, or not?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

rant

Any crap I hurl at USA is 'rant' but your industrial scale bile against Pakistan and particularly it's military is relevant?

Now, do you have anything relevant to say about the topic,

Yes, the country will sail through this despite all peddlers of doom and gloom that Indian's and their lackeys have been pouring out since 1947.

 

[VCheng]

Yes, the country will sail through this

Of course. Let us see what happens with the IMF talks first to see just how bumpy the path forward is likely to be for the people. Better economic results will bolster the strength of the present setup, I would agree, including decision making about important posts.

 

[Maira La]

https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/1634138382265-png.784593/

Well I know nothing about Pakistan's internal politics and stuff, but I feel like I saw the guy on the right somewhere.. is he somehow involved with Cosa Nostra?

 

[Jango]

The main issue is that we haven't had proper organizational reform to meet emerging challenges. The PM should have no say in any armed forces appointment other than the service chiefs (constitutional change required). The DG ISI, like the DG SPD and DG MO, etc., should be an internal appointment by a GHQ board.

This whole DG ISI reports to the PM nonsense should also (constitutionally) end. It makes for an incredible confusing structure. The PM has under him the IB, FIA, etc., and should develop those to his desired capacity (the necessary process of restructuring the entire IC is a post for another thread, so I won't get into that here.)

Exactly.

No matter how much a certain political party likes to say that it framed the perfect constitution, there are ALOT of loopholes. And the only reason those loopholes were not exposed before is because everything was done at the whim of a person, not through any due process before.

Nawaz Sharif wanted a guy in the ISI or as Army Chief, his advisors would say fikr mat karain Mian sahab, ho jaye ga. And it happened, with the process in a trash can.

Now when the actual process has to be followed, no one knows what it is.

I agree with you to take ISI out of the PM's authority, but I do not see political parties agreeing to this because they wouldn't want it to be de jure under the COAS, even though it de facto is.

All other postings and such to external departments are done through MS branch if I am not wrong, and they send a name to the cabinet division and it then gets approved. Then you can argue same process should be followed in this case, since technically ISI is a civilian authority, or is it not? That's another question that needs to be answered.

I don't think this is either the COAS's or PM's fault, just a loophole in the law. Maybe IK does want Gen Faiz to continue, but then that would throw a spanner in the works of Army promotions and transfers. On this point I disagree with the PM, the institution is powerful, not the person.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

is he somehow involved with Cosa Nostra?

Yeh to earn a few bucks extra, given sky high inflation in Pakistan the guy ofyen moonlights in Hollywood movies as a 'tough guy' on mob movies.

Let us see what happens with the IMF talks first to see just how bumpy the path forward is likely to be for the people.

I agree. The truth is it matters little with faces that come and go. The real and only issue in Pakistan is the economy. Who will have the balls to tear up the parasitic politico-economic order that has taken root since 1947. Who is goona be Pakistan's Deng Xioaping? I saw a great talk by Atif Mian and the man laid bare the real issue in Pakistan. The economy. This problem goes beyond the army, PTI, PPP, PML-N etc politics. It is issue is endemic. The problem is Pakistan has a fragile order and i can't see any Ataturk or Deng emerging.

 

[VCheng]

I agree. The truth is it matters little with faces that come and go. The real and only issue in Pakistan is the economy. Who will have the balls to tear up the parasitic politico-economic order that has taken root since 1947. Who is goona be Pakistan's Deng Xioaping? I saw a great talk by Atif Mian and the man laid bare the real issue in Pakistan. The economy. This problem goes beyond the army, PTI, PPP, PML-N etc politics. It is issue is endemic. The problem is Pakistan has a fragile order and i can't see any Ataturk or Deng emerging.

I agree that a savior-hero is neither on the scene now, nor is one likely to emerge anytime soon, regardless of any shade of sycophancy. The deep-seated malaise is across the board, from top to bottom, left to right, and every which way and where in between, collectively. I would even argue this situation is by intended design and not by accident.

 

[Sage]

The appointment of the DG ISI should come after the consultation between the president and COAS...since the armed forces work under the president ....not the PM.

 

[Norwegian]

The appointment of the DG ISI should come after the consultation between the president and COAS...since the armed forces work under the president ....not the PM.

But DG ISI reports to PM not President.

 

[Sage]

But DG ISI reports to PM not President.

How come ? According to the constitution, President is the supreme commander.