No proof of Indian involvement in Balochistan: Hillary to Pakistan

[SMC]

As you yourself said they have little public support..are you saying even your public is RAW agents???

What?? That made absolutely no sense at all.

Buddy this is not fair... I am part of the same public who unlike you don't have such strong contacts within ISI or Army that i can get to know classified information...Thus i can comment based on the knowledge i have and putting logic into it...MY understanding is that in pakistan Army is the main player...You are saying that Army and ISI have tons and tons of information but your government is ignoring those proofs..IN other words your own government is India's agent because even after knowing that India is kiiling innocent pakistani people GOP is doing nothing about it???

Honestly i will be more than happy to change my state in case i get some logical reasoning from you rather than statements but i guess this time you have taken a bit too far...

I have explained it repeatedly that what we have in Islamabad is a puppet government who under US pressure refuses to go public with the evidence. It is not in US interests if Pakistan goes public with the evidence.

I apologize for that but i am so confused..reason being there are so many stories around it...Some says its US who is putting pressure on GOP to ignore the wrong doing of India..Some says its US herself helping TTP...Some says its MOssad who is helping RAW(Raw being not worthy to do anything)...

I believe US is putting pressure to ignore india, however they are not doing or sponsering terrorism themself.

I was asking what is ideology of TTP...Every organization has an ideology. To me they want to implement sharia in pakistan

Ah yes, so they do. But what does that have to do with anything? It's not like they will succeed or anything. More importantly, you see, this is where it all comes together. If their intentions are to implement sharia (or their version of it), and they even get close to it, then it is a win for india because they can pressure the world to denuclearize Pakistan.

Please don't loose patience...I will get that through my skull if what you are saying has any sense in it...If sharia is not their demand than care to explain peace deal Pak army had with TTP in SWAT??? What were the terms and conditions of that deal???

No, I was referring to what you said that their enemy is india. That's not what TTP's enemy is.

Now as per your explanation can i say the same about ISI...they suck in gathering real intelligence because they are not able to stop attacks in Pakistan and are good in sponsoring terrorism(Kashmir)...does that mean RAW is better than ISI because both suck in gathering intelligence and RAW is able to spread terrorism in pak more lethaly???

Intelligence gathering.. you know, it can be more than stopping terrorism. For instance, what your enemy plans to do or what equipment it has, etc. And given the intensity of how many attacks are being planned, they have predicted and warned of quite a number of them.

Whereas only thing RAW does well is spread terrorism.

 

[deckingraj]

What?? That made absolutely no sense at all.

It will make sense if you honestly want to read what i am saying. What i mean is that there has to be a problem that someone can expolit..I get the impression that people here just put every wrong doing on India..US pressure..Israel..Zinoist ideas etc etc..This is what i meant by denial mode...

I have explained it repeatedly that what we have in Islamabad is a puppet government who under US pressure refuses to go public with the evidence. It is not in US interests if Pakistan goes public with the evidence.

Now you are contradicting yourself...Last time you made me apologize for putting words in your mouth related to US help for TTP..Now letting india arm TTP and kill hundreds innoncet Pakistani's and also not allowing so called puppet govt. to do anything about it is not helping TTP than what is??? So please clarify your point..as per you who all is helping TTP..once you are clear we can continue discussion..

I believe US is putting pressure to ignore india, however they are not doing or sponsering terrorism themself.

Doesn't matter weather they are sponsoring terrorism or not.. They are letting India kill pakistani's whom they are representing and doing nothing about it...If that is your stand than it basically saying GOP is india's agent...Though all this is rubbish yet let me ask why your Army is letting this happen to PAK?? Are they also under US pressure??? Please be careful when you reply to this one...as i have no doubts about the patritism of armies on both sides...

Ah yes, so they do. But what does that have to do with anything? It's not like they will succeed or anything. More importantly, you see, this is where it all comes together. If their intentions are to implement sharia (or their version of it), and they even get close to it, then it is a win for india because they can pressure the world to denuclearize Pakistan.

I am sorry...You seems to be a person with hands on classified information and then you come up with something like this??? How come Pakistan will get de-nuclearize if TTP rule Pakistan...If that happen(i know it wont) dont you think nuclear bombs would be their trump card from anyone overpowering them...Give a few nukes to Afghan Taliban and you will understand what i am talking about...

Also i have repeatedly said the day TTP will get its hands on Nukes South Asia will see its first and last nuclear exchange..

No, I was referring to what you said that their enemy is india. That's not what TTP's enemy is.

Now since you have agreed their ideology is to implement sharia in Pak..let me try and explain the india's angle...As per these fanatics india is considered as unislamic..a country who is oppressing muslims be it Kashmir..GUjarat...Babri masjid etc etc..Now tell me how can anyone just abandone its own ideology and join hands with someone who as per them is enemy of islam??? Do you see any logic in it???

Intelligence gathering.. you know, it can be more than stopping terrorism. For instance, what your enemy plans to do or what equipment it has, etc. And given the intensity of how many attacks are being planned, they have predicted and warned of quite a number of them.

Are you serious about what are you saying??? TTP is carrying suicide bombs every other day at will...Is that what you call effective intelligence gathering?? Let me give you an example of effective intelligence gathering..CIA...how many attacks have happened in US after 9/11...and they are dealing with Al-Qaeda who is dad of all these organizations...

Whereas only thing RAW does well is spread terrorism.

^^^^^ Again just statements...and it was you who said

I am afraid this attitude is not shown by Pakistanis, but in fact is shown by indians as evident here.

Just consider these two posts of yours...Sounds a bit hypocritical...Anyways i would appreciate if apart from making just plain statement argue..counter argue my points...for example why you think RAW only use if spread terrorism and it has nothing to do with intelligence gathering..sometihng that intelligence agencies are meant for...

 

[Solomon2]

"We have sources within the army and ISI who have UNDENIABLE evidence of indian involvement - and loads of such evidence - and they present the proof to the government, but government does nothing."

As far as I'm concerned, the credibility of what Pakistan's army and ISI says is even less than that of Pakistan's interior minister.

 

[Hulk]

"We have sources within the army and ISI who have UNDENIABLE evidence of indian involvement - and loads of such evidence - and they present the proof to the government, but government does nothing."

As far as I'm concerned, the credibility of what Pakistan's army and ISI says is even less than that of Pakistan's interior minister.

I do not understand how so many people in Pakistan buy this argument. I see hear that you guys are gullible to any stories, what makes you feel that your government will not do anything. I see here that you can go to any level of imagination just to satisfy yourself India is doing it. It seems like all Army has to do is blame it on India and no matter how absurd it sounds people will come with their own stories.
Here are some facts that I learned about recent attacks.
1) TTP supporters were arrested from Punjab of Pakistan.
2) TTP members mostly belong to SW and Punjab.
3) TTP members mostly got trained in SW.
4) Entire TTP people are Muslim.
5) 90% or more TTP members are Pakistani.
6) Funding for TTP comes from Saudi.

So above list 5 strong arguments picked up from Pakistani papers only.
Now at best India could have provided weapons and RDX but again these are easily available in Pakistan, so what is the need to send them from India.

Also there is a huge market of Guns in Pakistan, I can throw the video if you want. Why have GOP allowed such market to flourish. Can someone explain that to me.

It seems that GOP was happy when these guys were training and killing people in Afghanistan and India. This is the reason that these gun markets flourish, I also believe training to make guns and bombs were given to these guys by Pak Army itself.

Now you might say all these were done for Jihad against USSR but that was 1980 and why still they exists.

When you allow criminals to flourish because they become strategist weapon for you against neighbors. You have no means to stop these guns getting used against you. So first thing why the Gun market is still open.

 

[SMC]

"We have sources within the army and ISI who have UNDENIABLE evidence of indian involvement - and loads of such evidence - and they present the proof to the government, but government does nothing."

As far as I'm concerned, the credibility of what Pakistan's army and ISI says is even less than that of Pakistan's interior minister.

That's far as you're concerned and for that I couldn't care less about.

 

[SMC]

I do not understand how so many people in Pakistan buy this argument. I see hear that you guys are gullible to any stories, what makes you feel that your government will not do anything. I see here that you can go to any level of imagination just to satisfy yourself India is doing it. It seems like all Army has to do is blame it on India and no matter how absurd it sounds people will come with their own stories.
Here are some facts that I learned about recent attacks.
1) TTP supporters were arrested from Punjab of Pakistan.
2) TTP members mostly belong to SW and Punjab.
3) TTP members mostly got trained in SW.
4) Entire TTP people are Muslim.
5) 90% or more TTP members are Pakistani.
6) Funding for TTP comes from Saudi.

So above list 5 strong arguments picked up from Pakistani papers only.
Now at best India could have provided weapons and RDX but again these are easily available in Pakistan, so what is the need to send them from India.

Also there is a huge market of Guns in Pakistan, I can throw the video if you want. Why have GOP allowed such market to flourish. Can someone explain that to me.

It seems that GOP was happy when these guys were training and killing people in Afghanistan and India. This is the reason that these gun markets flourish, I also believe training to make guns and bombs were given to these guys by Pak Army itself.

Now you might say all these were done for Jihad against USSR but that was 1980 and why still they exists.

When you allow criminals to flourish because they become strategist weapon for you against neighbors. You have no means to stop these guns getting used against you. So first thing why the Gun market is still open.

Yeah.. and what I have been saying is that TTP is getting their sponsering from india. Yes they can get it from Pakistan - probably not in the same quantity or quality, to correct you -, but as it stands now, they are getting it from india.

Rest of your post is either irrelevent or opinion I couldn't care less about.

 

[Solomon2]

That's far as you're concerned and for that I couldn't care less about.

If you don't care what we think, why offer such arguments?

 

[SMC]

If you don't care what we think, why offer such arguments?

I am only arguing against claims, not opinions.

 

[Hulk]

Yeah.. and what I have been saying is that TTP is getting their sponsering from india. Yes they can get it from Pakistan - probably not in the same quantity or quality, to correct you -, but as it stands now, they are getting it from india.

Rest of your post is either irrelevent or opinion I couldn't care less about.

Ok if you like to believe what you want to but I guess when we are discussing in a forum people try to prove their argument.

You still did not answered me about the Gun Market. What is the reason of keeping it alive?

 

[SMC]

That is not something I know about, but yes it has to be brought into under control. I doubt they even take notice of it.

 

[deckingraj]

I am only arguing against claims, not opinions.

Thats what you are not doing properly..I want to believe that you are but then i see your blogs you tend to make statements without providing logic or your view point to it..I am not asking for proofs which is a normal norm in this forum because those are somewhere and for some reason US pressure or whatever they are not coming out...

But again if you have decided screw you,..my POV is not going to change be whatever the truth than no one can help..

 

[Hulk]

That is not something I know about, but yes it has to be brought into under control. I doubt they even take notice of it.

Sounds really strange, such a big gun market is flourishing and no one thinks it is a security issue in Pakistan. I happen to work with a Pakistani and he told me that it is very easy to get AK47 in Pak. He also told me he has fired one, I was surprised to hear that, this guy works as a manager in IT industry. I have not validated his claims, so take it with a pinch of salt.

Here is the video. I have not seen the entire video. There were at-least 10 such available on Youtube.

 

[deckingraj]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

No point buddy..The typical attitude is all the wrong doings are because of foreign countries especially india...You will find all sort of claims but no one is ready to have an honest circumspect of why things are wrong...

Dont be surprised if someone claim that these videos have been implanted by RAW to malign Pak

 

[SMC]

Thats what you are not doing properly..I want to believe that you are but then i see your blogs you tend to make statements without providing logic or your view point to it..I am not asking for proofs which is a normal norm in this forum because those are somewhere and for some reason US pressure or whatever they are not coming out...

But again if you have decided screw you,..my POV is not going to change be whatever the truth than no one can help..

What blogs? I don't have any blogs. Also, what you're calling 'improper' is your own interpretation because it does not agree with your beliefs and thus that's something I don't care about.

 

[SMC]

You know the weapons found by the army... much more powerful than AK-47s. Anti-aircraft guns, 12.7 and 14.2, heavy machine guns, and the list goes on. AK-47 is a really basic weapon for them.