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No curbs on F-16 sales to Pakistan:

fatman17

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No curbs on F-16 sales to Pakistan:

Two days after the US Congress slapped restrictions on military aid to Pakistan, a senior US official asserted the constraints would not affect the supply of F-16 fighter planes to the country.

Richard Boucher, assistant secretary of state for South and Central Asian affairs, also expressed confidence that new restrictions on military aid to Pakistan will not prevent the Bush administration from providing $50 million for the war on terror.

"The F-16 programme is a Pakistani purchase, their money, they're buying them. And our foreign military finance, our military assistance goes for different purposes and is not involved at this point in the F-16 sales.

"So they will be able to continue that and we will be able to continue our efforts...so they can do the fight against terrorism that they are in," he said according to the transcript of a teleconference released on Friday.

Pakistan is to get 18 new F-16C/D fighters by 2010 besides upgrades for its current fleet of 34 F-16 combat aircraft as part of a $2.1 billion deal for new weapons, avionics, engines, and other equipment for F-16 fighters announced in September last year.

Meanwhile, US Defence Secretary Robert Gates too said the Pentagon was looking for ways to improve the Pakistani army's counter-insurgency capabilities as Al Qaeda has regrouped in Pakistan's remote Afghan border area.

It had begun to focus attacks on the Pakistani government and military, he said. However, Al-Qaeda's activities in Pakistan have not yet affected Afghanistan, where US and coalition forces have faced increased Taliban violence in the last two years.

"There is no question that some of the parts in the frontier have become areas where Al-Qaeda has re-established itself," Gates said. "But so far, we haven't seen any significant consequence of that in Afghanistan itself."

"Al-Qaeda right now seems to have turned its face toward Pakistan and attacks on the Pakistani government and Pakistani people," he added.

Gates' comments came a day after Boucher expressed confidence new Congressional restrictions will not prevent it from providing $50 million in military aid to Pakistan.

Congress Wednesday authorised $300 million in aid to Pakistan, but $50 million of it can only be used after Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice certifies to Congress that Pakistan is making "concerted efforts" to prevent terrorists and the Taliban from operating inside its borders.

Boucher said he had little doubt that the administration would get the money. "We are confident that we will be able to report to Congress on the developments in the areas that they have identified," he said.

Asserting, this is very much part of the counter-terrorism effort, Boucher said, "It goes to TOW missiles. It goes to tactical radios that their forces can use to plan military operations. And it goes to support the programme for P-3C aircraft that help them do maritime patrols."

He added, "Pakistan is currently, for the second time, in command of the Combined Task Force 150 that patrols the seas off Pakistan and the Arabian Gulf to prevent terrorist activities on the high seas.

"And the P-3 programme is a complement to that, so they can work better with us and others in protecting their neighbourhood from threats of terrorism on the high seas. So, in a variety of different ways, our military programmes serve to support their capability."

"So that's where we are. The requirements of the Congress, I think, are ones we're comfortable with and we look forward to reporting to the Congress and having a dialogue with them," Boucher added.
 
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Yeh.....

Seems right now to say that US can not afford any deviation from Pakistan on WOT..
Cannot afford any real confrontation with Islamabad.
 
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Iam uncomfortable with this development. What has happened is a clear indication of the American Poicy makers mindset of deserting Pakistan once their dirty deeds are done. I think though, this time round we are more confident and better prepared for this eventuality. I think, the necessity is to ally even more strongly with Chinaand even Russia. We need to disentangle our selves from the PAkistan India conflict once and for all and settle all issues. The IPI pipeline would be a good starting point of cooperation between the 2 countries. There would then be a urgent need to increase our industrial base and start laying even higher stress on Technical education.
only financial independance will bring us out of this viscous circle of perpetual dependance.
Araz
 
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Hope the next government doesnt put curbs on the F-16s. I'm really looking forward for the C/D type with pakistani flag on them.
 
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Good point to bring up IceCold that worries me to. Our own fighters are not yet ready for deployment and the J-10 is not ready eather. That is if we decide to customize it and put a different avionics then that of the Chinese.

What conserns me more is that I hope Europe doesn't put any restriction on us either like they did before in the 90's that will really bring things down to a stand still what do you guys think?
 
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Hi,

Pakistan tried really hard to associate itself with russia----but the manner they approached russia was not very secretive and not very devious as the russians like it---in other words russians like the moves of a chess master in a budding relationship--in our case it was very open---and looking at it today---there was nothing wrong with it--pakistan was being up-front---the russians just got taken aback by our openness----they lost the advantage---they could have been partners in gwadar alongwith china.
 
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the next 2-3 yrs are going to be interesting for the PAF.

JF-17 would be coming on line with chinese/french avionics and weapons systems.
the F-16C/Ds would be delivered around 09-10.
BVR capability will be a reality with the AIM-120C.
the F-16MLU should be nearing completion. rumours are that 6-9 a/c are already in Turkey undergoing the MLU. this co-incides with the news that Jordan's F-16MLU of 9 a/c has been completed and the balance 6 a/c would be MLU-ed in Jordan with Turkish assistence. expect the same for the PAF program.

decision on induction of the F-20 (J-10) would be forthcoming during this period and with the French having difficulty selling their Rafale fighters to North African countries like algeria and morocco, i assume that with the largest mirage fleet in the PAF, they would target Pakistan with a "offer we cannot refuse".

having said all the above, i agree completely that pakistan needs to expand its industrial and technical base for self-sufficency not only in the defence sector but the civilian sector also.
 
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the next 2-3 yrs are going to be interesting for the PAF.

JF-17 would be coming on line with chinese/french avionics and weapons systems.
the F-16C/Ds would be delivered around 09-10.
BVR capability will be a reality with the AIM-120C.
the F-16MLU should be nearing completion. rumours are that 6-9 a/c are already in Turkey undergoing the MLU. this co-incides with the news that Jordan's F-16MLU of 9 a/c has been completed and the balance 6 a/c would be MLU-ed in Jordan with Turkish assistence. expect the same for the PAF program.

decision on induction of the F-20 (J-10) would be forthcoming during this period and with the French having difficulty selling their Rafale fighters to North African countries like algeria and morocco, i assume that with the largest mirage fleet in the PAF, they would target Pakistan with a "offer we cannot refuse".

having said all the above, i agree completely that pakistan needs to expand its industrial and technical base for self-sufficency not only in the defence sector but the civilian sector also.

You think so good and so positive fatman but US is not a reliable source we dont have to trust on them they have to give just 18 planes and they took the time of around four years in past they give around 36 or 40 planes in just 6 years of time.. and the MLU programe its also to much slow going who know whats happening. (How many 1 A/C needed to be MLU)

Your opinion about the Rafle is good PAF have lot of experience of Mairags and French Equipment but it was too expensive to handle may be if PAF get it would be in between 18 to 24 maximum in numbers well i realy support J10 with some french Avionics and Assembled in Pakistan completelty technology transfer can it is possiable ?:angel:
 
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the next 2-3 yrs are going to be interesting for the PAF.

JF-17 would be coming on line with chinese/french avionics and weapons systems.
the F-16C/Ds would be delivered around 09-10.
BVR capability will be a reality with the AIM-120C.
the F-16MLU should be nearing completion. rumours are that 6-9 a/c are already in Turkey undergoing the MLU. this co-incides with the news that Jordan's F-16MLU of 9 a/c has been completed and the balance 6 a/c would be MLU-ed in Jordan with Turkish assistence. expect the same for the PAF program.

decision on induction of the F-20 (J-10) would be forthcoming during this period and with the French having difficulty selling their Rafale fighters to North African countries like algeria and morocco, i assume that with the largest mirage fleet in the PAF, they would target Pakistan with a "offer we cannot refuse".

having said all the above, i agree completely that pakistan needs to expand its industrial and technical base for self-sufficency not only in the defence sector but the civilian sector also.
If you keep up with Chinese defence; there is now a J-10 variant being tested by CAC - stealthy airframe, better avionics, better ECM/EW, eventually AESA radar, WS-10A engine, etc. In about 2-3 years this variant will be the only J-10 variant China will be producing...and it'll be well on par with the Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale. Knowing that Chinese products are still cheaper, the French will definitely need to come up with a deal "we cannot refuse" to compete with what FC-20 shaping up to be (upgraded J-10).


Honestly I don't see a place for either Rafale or Eurofighter in PAF. If FC-20 is the upgraded J-10, then PAF will not have any problems until IAF begins operating proper 5th generation fighters. In some weird twist maybe PN will like Rafale...they're going raise a squadron by 2009 (according to H Khan on PakDef); maybe they'll like the twin-engine Rafale...??
 
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This is bad policy by the US, we should sell as much F-16s as possible, it is good business.

We would have the F-35 for replacement soon anyways.
 
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Jane's Defence Weekly - January 16, 2008


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Senator slams Pakistan F-16 sale
Caitlin Harrington JDW Washington Bureau Reporter

Key Points
The US has announced a deal to sell 18 F-16 aircraft to Pakistan.

A top US Senator is calling the sale "reckless" in light of recent unrest in Pakistan and the message it sends to the country's leadership.


The chairman of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee has slammed the Bush administration's decision to sell F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, calling the policy "dangerously misguided".

Senator Joseph Biden, a Democratic Party presidential candidate, said the sale sent the wrong message to the military and the country's people, still shocked by the assassination of opposition leader Benazir Bhutto on 27 December 2007.

The US Department of Defense (DoD) announced late on 31 December 2007 that it had approved the USD498.2 million deal for Lockheed Martin to supply 18 F-16s: 12 operational single-seat F-16C Block 52 aircraft and six operational two-seat F-16D Block 52 aircraft.

Sources in Islamabad suggested the aircrafft would effectively come free of charge courtesy of the State Department aid. However, Pentagon spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Mark Wright said the sale would not be paid for in any part by the Pentagon. "This is basically Pakistan buying F-16s from a US company," he said. "There is no DoD aid."

Tensions in Pakistan were further heightened on 2 January when Pakistan's electoral commission announced that elections would be postponed until 18 February.

The F-16 sale, agreed in 2006 but beset with difficulties, was placed under review when President Pervez Musharraf declared a state of emergency on 3 November 2007. He lifted the state of emergency six weeks later, before Bhutto's death.

"How can the White House even think of green-lighting such a sale at such an incredibly sensitive time?" said Biden in a 2 January statement. "It sends exactly the wrong message to the Pakistani generals and to the Pakistani people. This is the time we should be putting the pressure on the government and military

to fully investigate the assassination of Benazir Bhutto and to hold free and fair elections - not let them off the hook."

Biden said the sale would be technically illegal in the United States if the deal was funded by any US aid. A 2008 omnibus spending law limits assistance to Pakistan for weapons sales that are not for counter-terrorism purposes. US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has to certify that Pakistan is making concerted efforts to prevent Al-Qaeda from operating in Pakistan and is implementing democratic reforms before additional funding can be released.

However, even if the F-16 sale involved no US assistance, Biden said it would still be "fundamentally misguided".

"The primary purpose of the F-16s is to balance India, not to combat the Taliban or Al-Qaeda," he said.


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© 2008 Jane's Information Group
 
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In whatever manner we see things, we are moving towards a confrontation with the US. IMO i dont think so we will get the F-16s, we should have never opted for them anyway. Bush administration will leave this year and the new administration will defentinely put sactions of the sale. Its better if we start analysing a different option. Perhaps this way we can finally get out of this blackmailing though it will hurt us but for the greater purpose it will serve in pakistan distancing it self from the West.
 
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They will give any satifactions and remarks but in the end we dont have to trust them they can do any against us.
 
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In whatever manner we see things, we are moving towards a confrontation with the US. IMO i dont think so we will get the F-16s, we should have never opted for them anyway. Bush administration will leave this year and the new administration will defentinely put sactions of the sale. Its better if we start analysing a different option. Perhaps this way we can finally get out of this blackmailing though it will hurt us but for the greater purpose it will serve in pakistan distancing it self from the West.

Well sure the options to sanction Pakistan is always with the US, but unlike the post Afghan war years 88-91, the GWOT is not over and neither will it be over in the next 4-5 years.

Currently both sides have considerable leverage on each other. The democrats for the first time have realized that they need to stay engaged with Pakistan instead of going down Gary Ackerman and Stephen Solarz track of bashing Pakistan just for the sake of India. The current times are as such that its in the US interest to keep Pakistan engaged. So this talk of confrontation is a bit overblown at least at this point (I hope you are not stating this based on Musharraf's comments). The recent comments are an indication that Pakistani leadership too will allow considerable latitude with regards to comments made about Pak-US relationship just like Pakistan has been allowed to become the whipping boy in the US Presidential race even though the US government, DoD and Dept of State are aware that Pakistan has done considerable amount of work in order to aid US efforts around the GWOT.

If they come back and say to Pakistan that your comments are not conducive to US-Pakistan relations then Musharraf can throw a whole bunch of recent anti-Pakistan/Musharraf garbage right back at them. Mark my words, nobody in the USG will call out Musharraf on the comments he just made about US sending forces into Pakistan. I think its Musharraf's way of saying that if you can dish a little my way then be ready to take some as well ;)
 
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Well sure the options to sanction Pakistan is always with the US, but unlike the post Afghan war years 88-91, the GWOT is not over and neither will it be over in the next 4-5 years.

Currently both sides have considerable leverage on each other. The democrats for the first time have realized that they need to stay engaged with Pakistan instead of going down Gary Ackerman and Stephen Solarz track of bashing Pakistan just for the sake of India. The current times are as such that its in the US interest to keep Pakistan engaged. So this talk of confrontation is a bit overblown at least at this point (I hope you are not stating this based on Musharraf's comments). The recent comments are an indication that Pakistani leadership too will allow considerable latitude with regards to comments made about Pak-US relationship just like Pakistan has been allowed to become the whipping boy in the US Presidential race even though the US government, DoD and Dept of State are aware that Pakistan has done considerable amount of work in order to aid US efforts around the GWOT.

If they come back and say to Pakistan that your comments are not conducive to US-Pakistan relations then Musharraf can throw a whole bunch of recent anti-Pakistan/Musharraf garbage right back at them. Mark my words, nobody in the USG will call out Musharraf on the comments he just made about US sending forces into Pakistan. I think its Musharraf's way of saying that if you can dish a little my way then be ready to take some as well ;)

I completely Agree with you.... :cheers:
 
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