Nizam-i-adal approved

[ajpirzada]

Just loo at how it was that Nazam E Adl came to be in Swat -- Whereas the Pakistani govt has made a show of parliamentary procedures and legality, the truth of the matter is that the legislation has come by force of arms and it is designed to arrest development of the society.

Will this be the case in all Pakistan, much depends on how the US reacts - if the world can be threatened by Pakistan playing a suicide card, then, no, it will not spread to the rest of pakistan - but if the US and therefore the world decides it can live with a talib Pakistan, then, yes, it will spread to the rest of Pakistan and everyone can be happy muslims enjoying "islamic" law.

how exactly???????

 

[Awesome]

Just loo at how it was that Nazam E Adl came to be in Swat -- Whereas the Pakistani govt has made a show of parliamentary procedures and legality, the truth of the matter is that the legislation has come by force of arms and it is designed to arrest development of the society.

Will this be the case in all Pakistan, much depends on how the US reacts - if the world can be threatened by Pakistan playing a suicide card, then, no, it will not spread to the rest of pakistan - but if the US and therefore the world decides it can live with a talib Pakistan, then, yes, it will spread to the rest of Pakistan and everyone can be happy muslims enjoying "islamic" law.

This deal spells surrender and nothing else.

If I'm okay with this, will I be okay with a person barging into my house and declaring me his slave at the force of his gun?

Haha, I mean... Why is there even some doubt about what this Nizaam is. Swat's main attraction was tourism. You can think a white woman would come to Swat, her head uncovered, trekking the hills say in jeans?

Their Islam is weak. They have no confidence in Islam. They think if people were given a choice to choose Islam they wouldn't choose it. Their Imaan is weak. They need the gun.

 

[kamal1470]

and now islamic law has been imposed. this means now they dont have any moral ground left to fight GoP. not obeyin shariah courts will bring them in direct confrontation with TNSM and also the ppl. so i do think likely outcome will be alot better than could have been if we were to continue with the military operation

what i want to express, explicitly and the point i stress, is the power factor. We have had peace deals with the talibaan before. did we not? and what became of them? so now, for them it is just rest and recuperation time! They will use this "opportunity" to further strengthen and solidify their position. And Sir, now what stops them for demanding Niza-E-Adal for other areas of Pakistan , as well? Maybe there next demand will be the imposition of sharia in all the major cities? As far as the ppl are concerned, of swat and NWFP, why did they vote for the ANP, a supposedly secular party(correct me if i am wrong..) if they wanted islamic law? What i again emphasize and believe is that once they have a taste of success, they will not just sit still.... Time, will tell.

 

[sherdil76]

Dear Mr. Sherdil!

I think you do not fully comprehend what I wrote about. If you think that I am guilty of something, then you are absolutely correct! I am indeed guilty of being extremely concerned about the cancer and the curse of the Talibaan! And I am indeed guilty of sitting here and just writing about it , for now!

Just one question? What has become of the teachings, and the Role model, of our beloved Prophet(PBUH)? IS this what he taught us? (GOD Forbid!). What Shariah are we talking about here? Where Does wanton murder, beheadings and suicide bombings on fellow Muslims figure in Islamic Law or Islam? Our Beloved Prophet(PBUH) was a model of tolerance and forgiveness, even for his worst enemies!

Or maybe, (pardon me for being harsh), that all the people of Pakistan, except Talibaans and their supporters, are apostates and kafirs??(God Forbid!)

What about the image, of Islam we are projecting to the rest of the world? What image did our beloved Prophet(PBUH) project to the world? As far as I know it was one of tolerance, compassion and love for all!

So, where does this phenomenon of the talibaan barbarians figure in our glorious Islamic history and heritage? No where!

These barbarians are not Muslims, not even humans! as they have nothing in common with our religion or humanity!

They are a curse and a Fitna, that must be quashed before it is too late! Yes, I am guilty, and I am very proud to be guilty of hating this locust, this abomination! and it's horrific impact, on our Religion, our country and and our psyche.

The Nizam-e-Adal law, will indeed, bring into the open, the very intentions of the Talibaan, for all to see.....

As I said, just wait a bit more!

bhai jan, i never believe on and support the things you have mentioned above, but my point is how do you know they are actually doing all this, they are not the one doing what you have mentioned but surely Islamic Law is very strict and so are the punishments.

but suicides have no place in sharia neither i do believe a muslim can kill any other innocent. and please stop labeling every beard man as terrorist. west has already started link even tableegi with alqaeeda.. so would you believe them on that too???

 

[sherdil76]

This thread has some articles posted by Munshi Sahib from the NYT and WSJ.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/war-te...tants-threaten-pakistan-s-populous-heart.html

They do not paint a pretty picture of what is to come, if the Swat model is adopted by other militant outfits.

Within Swat, the WSJ paints a very damning picture:

Pakistani Peace Deal Gives New Clout to Taliban Rebels

MINGORA, Pakistan -- Thousands of Islamist militants are pouring into Pakistan's Swat Valley and setting up training camps here, quickly making it one of the main bases for Taliban fighters and raising their threat to the government in the wake of a controversial peace deal.

President Asif Ali Zardari effectively ratified the government's deal with the Taliban Monday by signing a bill that imposes Islamic law in Swat, a key plank of the accord, hours after legislators overwhelmingly approved a resolution urging it. Pakistani officials have touted the deal, reached in February, as a way to restore peaceful order in the bloodied region -- which lies just a few hours' drive from the capital -- and halt the Taliban's advance.

Yet a visit to the Taliban-controlled valley here found mounting evidence that the deal already is strengthening the militants as a base for war. U.S. officials contend the pact has given the Taliban and its allies in al Qaeda and other Islamist groups an advantage in their long-running battle against Pakistan's military.

The number of militants in the valley swelled in the months before the deal with the Taliban was struck, and they continue to move in, say Pakistani and U.S. officials. They now estimate there are between 6,000 and 8,000 fighters in Swat, nearly double the number at the end of last year.

Taliban leaders here make no secret of their ultimate aim. "Our objective is to drive out Americans and their lackeys" from Pakistan and Afghanistan, said Muslim Khan, a spokesman for the group, in an interview here. "They are not Muslims and we have to throw them out."

Militant training camps are springing up across the valley's thickly forested mountainsides. "Young men with no prospect of employment and lack of education facilities are joining the militants," said Abdur Rehman, a schoolteacher in Swat.

Until the fighting began nearly two years ago in the valley, it was a popular weekend getaway for well-heeled Pakistanis, known for its alpine ridges, fruit orchards and trout-filled streams. With the Taliban now imposing its harsh version of Islamic law, floggings and even executions are fast becoming commonplace. Residents said many young men are joining the militants to ensure the safety of their families, who they hope will be left in peace if one of their own is fighting the government.

"We are all frightened by this brutality. No one can dare to challenge them," said Fazle Rabbi, who owns a cloth shop in Mingora, Swat's main town. The shop sits on a square that has become known among residents as "Slaughter Square" because the Taliban have begun using it to dump bodies after executions.

Since the new peace deal was made, the militants are beginning to push into neighboring areas. Last week they overpowered a village militia in the adjacent Buner district. The attack was a violation of the peace accord. But the Taliban faction that controls Swat says it has no intention of withdrawing. "We want Islamic sharia [law] also to be enforced in Buner," said Mr. Khan. "No one can force us out from any part of the province."

Many of the longer-term jihadist fighters are loyal to groups with ties to al Qaeda, such as Jaish-e-Mohammed. They have been hardened on battlefields in neighboring Afghanistan and the Kashmir region claimed by India and Pakistan -- underlining the growing confluence between the various Islamist groups fighting on either side of the Afghan-Pakistani border, the officials say.

The Taliban and al Qaeda were once largely confined to a mountainous ribbon that runs along the Afghan border and has long existed in a semiautonomous limbo, technically part of Pakistan but never fully under the control of its government.

In the past two years, however, the Taliban and its allies have pushed into areas where Pakistan's state had held sway, such as Swat, about 100 miles from Islamabad.

Striking peace deals with some Taliban factions is part of Pakistan's broader strategy to counter the militants. The government's logic is that such accords can exploit the groups' fractious nature; one enemy can be neutralized with a peace deal while another is defeated on the battlefield. The deals also have been struck when the army has struggled to overcome militants. In Swat, about 3,000 militants pushed four times as many soldiers out of the valley in 18 months of fighting, leaving some 1,500 people dead.

Nearly all the peace accords reached in the past few years in areas near the Afghan border, where the Taliban are strongest, have collapsed. Often they have left the militants more powerful. A similar deal in Swat fell apart last year after the Taliban renewed attacks on Pakistani forces.

The Taliban's actions since the new peace deal was unveiled have alarmed Washington, where officials fear that Swat will become an effective launching pad for expansion into Pakistan's more densely populated plains. "This is a rest stop for the Taliban, it's nothing more," said a U.S. official in Washington.

Swat now offers a glimpse of the Taliban's vision for Pakistan. They have taken control of the local government and the police, who have been ordered to shed their uniforms in favor of the traditional Shalwar Kameez, an outfit comprising a long shirt and loose trousers. They also have seized Swat's emerald mines, which extract millions of dollars a year in gemstones.

At barbershops, notices warn men not to shave their beards. Women are no longer allowed to leave their homes without their husbands or male blood relatives. Girls' schools have been reopened after initially being closed but the students must be covered from head to toe, and Taliban officials routinely inspect classrooms for violators.

"We used to have lots of cultural and extracurricular activities in the school, but all that has been stopped," said Ziaullah Yousaf Zai, a principal of a private girls' school in Mingora. "We do not want to give any pretext to the Taliban to shut the school again."

Mr. Khan, the Taliban spokesman, predicted there would soon be more executions, showing off a list of people whom the Taliban want to try in Islamic courts for what he called their "anti-Islamic" ways. The list includes senior government officials, a woman whose husband is in the U.S. military, and others. Many of them have fled or are in areas outside Taliban control

"These kinds of people should not live," said Mr. Khan, who also is a commander in the Tehrik-e-Taliban, a broader Taliban alliance focused on battling the Pakistani government.

Islamic courts haven't yet been set up in Swat because Pakistani President Zardari had delayed signing the bill to impose sharia, as the peace deal stipulates. Until Monday, he had maintained there first must be complete peace in the valley, though he didn't explain how he would determine that, nor did he address it Monday.

Mr. Zardari's delay was widely viewed as an attempt to save face with opponents of the deal in his own government and Washington. He relented after the Parliament vote established support from almost every national political party, said a senior official close to the president. One party walked out in opposition.

Mr. Khan had warned of more bloodshed if Islamic law was not formally imposed. "It does not matter to us whether the peace deal stays or not. No one can stop us from setting up our own courts," he said.

The Taliban were already imposing their own version of sharia, which has been interpreted with wide variations by Islamic scholars for centuries. Pakistani television stations recently broadcast a video of a woman being flogged by black-turbaned Taliban in Swat. Most official accounts say she was alleged to have left her house without a male blood relative.

While Mr. Khan insisted the video was a fake, he acknowledged that such an incident did happen. "As a Muslim, we cannot allow a woman to violate Islamic values," he said.

Pakistani Peace Deal Gives New Clout to Taliban Rebels - WSJ.com

i still wonder how people trust on those who betryed us many times and just recently played the same game in Iraq by creating fear among innocent that saddam will kill them using wmd and has links with alqaeeda... but sadly nothing has ever found to prove their claim but some still feel proud to show them sincerity and ignore what their brothers are trying to say.

taliban and terrorist are completely different and Maulana Sufi is not one of them, he is against war but support sharia which people of swat has happily accepted though black sheep always remain in every society so I wish and pray that sharia in swat may bring peace and justice to locals.

 

[All-Green]

Not really you see the point you all are missing here is that her brother was also among the guys whipping her, meaning whatever happened wrong or right i am not going to go into that, happened with the consent of her family. So i don't see the connection that you are trying to establish here. Also remember sharia law is something people of SWAT too wanted themselves, its not like that is being imposed on them, people in Lahore or Islamabad or karachi does not want sharia law, so unless people want it it cannot be implemented by anyone no matter how force full they really are, in the end even taliban take their power from the locals.

What a statement!

My god, do you think that the fact that Taliban kill anyone who speaks against them should not at all be considered by us?
The poor family would have consented to anything in face of the threat which they faced, to save their lives and that of the girl.

It is being imposed on them, nobody likes something forced at gunpoint.
How would you feel if i start bashing you for being clean shaved?
That is what TTP are doing and will try to do...implement all that they deem necessary for Muslims, which is something most of us do not agree with based on all what we have seen, read and heard.

 

[ajpirzada]

what i want to express, explicitly and the point i stress, is the power factor. We have had peace deals with the talibaan before. did we not? and what became of them? so now, for them it is just rest and recuperation time! They will use this "opportunity" to further strengthen and solidify their position. And Sir, now what stops them for demanding Niza-E-Adal for other areas of Pakistan , as well? Maybe there next demand will be the imposition of sharia in all the major cities? As far as the ppl are concerned, of swat and NWFP, why did they vote for the ANP, a supposedly secular party(correct me if i am wrong..) if they wanted islamic law? What i again emphasize and believe is that once they have a taste of success, they will not just sit still.... Time, will tell.

there is a simple answer. wat will stop them are the ppl. talibans in bajur were crushed coz they didnt have the support of ppl. same goes for some other agencies where ppl have formed lashkar to fight talibans. now im swat situation was different. ppl did want shariah and that has been their demand since 1970s. now this was exploited by taliban and they managed to gain strength...
yes they did vote for ANP and in past for many other parties. but their demand was the same. same kind of bill was passed in 1994 and 1999 but both of them were not implemented. now if we would have implemented them, this day would not have come

 

[kamal1470]

Not really you see the point you all are missing here is that her brother was also among the guys whipping her, meaning whatever happened wrong or right i am not going to go into that, happened with the consent of her family. So i don't see the connection that you are trying to establish here. Also remember sharia law is something people of SWAT too wanted themselves, its not like that is being imposed on them, people in Lahore or Islamabad or karachi does not want sharia law, so unless people want it it cannot be implemented by anyone no matter how force full they really are, in the end even taliban take their power from the locals.

Sir! are you implying that the talibaan are of a democratic disposition? I mean, you talk of people wanting or not wanting! It does not matter! for the talibaan, the wants and needs of ppl are of absolutely no concern! The chief of TSNM has declared democracy to be kufr!

As for her brother present there, there is no absolute proof, even the video is being disputed, that it actually is real???

And if the ppl of swat wanted shariah, then how come they elected, or helped to bring the ANP to power? and that party has indeed betrayed them, as half of its members have fled to dubai!(this is all in the newspapers, lest, we stop believing what they write!) why? Sir,you decide!

And as for the power of the locals, sir do tell me about what recently happened in Buner? And what about the lal masjid episode in Islamabad?? to go by the mullah brigade's actions, they could have said then that they wanted islamic shariah imposed! If not for the Army and the Govt, who could have stopped them? They would have claimed to be the representatives of the people of islamabad and then proceeded to implement shariah!

And sir, coming to the flogging issue, i would have never allowed my sister to be beaten in public, while held down by barbarian goons! I would have killed as many as i could, as many as possible!

The "connection" that i wanted to establish, was in the spirit, that i, no matter what the crime of my female relative, would never had allowed this to happen to her, no matter what the cost, and till i was alive!

 

[sherdil76]

U dont know how many pakistanis are murdered by these talibans??
How many mosque are bombed by them??
How many muslim pakistan army men are killed by them!!

no I dont and neither i know if they were actually the real taliban or not? if you have any evidance to proof your claims then please share with us...
but know for sure if someone bomb your house from sky and kill innocent relatives and you have no hope to get justice... you wll react furiously and target those whom you have seen killing others and selling your brothern to enemies (like musharaf) and that is why they are attacking PA as they are always at front, american is just dictating them ever since. and they did the same to PA in somalia.

 

[ajpirzada]

i still wonder how people trust on those who betryed us many times and just recently played the same game in Iraq by creating fear among innocent that saddam will kill them using wmd and has links with alqaeeda... but sadly nothing has ever found to prove their claim but some still feel proud to show them sincerity and ignore what their brothers are trying to say.

taliban and terrorist are completely different and Maulana Sufi is not one of them, he is against war but support sharia which people of swat has happily accepted though black sheep always remain in every society so I wish and pray that sharia in swat may bring peace and justice to locals.

how can u say swat talibans are not terrorists?? they did blow up schools and also took the responsibility. they killed people who didnt listen to them. they didnt allow women to go to the market. they killed many policemen.
also how can u say taliban group of baitullah mahsud who has killed so many innocent pakistanis and has also carried out many suicide attacks is not a terrorist??

 

[sherdil76]

Tell me is there any one who has balls to live in swat with his mother and sisters??

no... actually all swatianz have migrated to karachi and joined MQM as from now on they are muhajir as well

 

[Hasnain2009]

1st thing is that nobody in pakistan support US drone attacks!!

I will no more talk to u bcoz u dont know abt the thousands of innocent peoples killed by taliban bombings!!

 

[sherdil76]

This deal spells surrender and nothing else.

If I'm okay with this, will I be okay with a person barging into my house and declaring me his slave at the force of his gun?

Haha, I mean... Why is there even some doubt about what this Nizaam is. Swat's main attraction was tourism. You can think a white woman would come to Swat, her head uncovered, trekking the hills say in jeans?

Their Islam is weak. They have no confidence in Islam. They think if people were given a choice to choose Islam they wouldn't choose it. Their Imaan is weak. They need the gun.

if their Iman is weak, which i dont think anyone can say so without having good knowledge of religion but even then can you please tell us who you think has better iman and which sharia you have faith on, and finally how that is diiferent from the one going to implement in swat? none of us has seen any results yet but has enough to say against them.... let them give a chance... i bet they will be much better than zardari, the known corrupt... but we have accepted him and living under his rule... shame on us as we have no faith on believers but trust the opposite

 

[Hasnain2009]

Pakistan Taliban: Bomb that killed 11 was revenge
By ISHTIAQ MAHSUD – Mar 26, 2009

DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan (AP) — A suicide bomber struck a restaurant in volatile northwest Pakistan on Thursday, killing at least 11 people, including pro-government fighters opposed to the country's top Taliban commander, intelligence officials said.

The Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack, which also wounded several people.

Pockets of the northwest are strongholds for Taliban and al-Qaida militants. Pakistan has staged military offensives in the area, while the U.S. is suspected in dozens of missile strikes against militant targets there, including one that killed eight Wednesday. The Pakistani government also has encouraged tribal leaders to form militias to ward off the insurgents.

The attack Thursday morning, just outside the South Waziristan tribal region near the town of Tank, hit a roadside restaurant where some two dozen fighters loyal to pro-government leader Turkistan Bitani were eating, two intelligence officials told The Associated Press. Bitani was not present, they said.

Local resident Ibrahim Khan told The Associated Press by phone that he saw armed men trying to catch a young man in the vicinity of the restaurant.

"As the armed men grabbed that young man, he exploded a bomb," said Khan, who added he saw 11 bodies.

South Waziristan is the stronghold of Baitullah Mehsud, the top leader of the Pakistani Taliban and a Bitani rival. On Wednesday, the U.S. State Department announced a $5 million bounty for Mehsud.

Mehsud spokesman Maulvi Umar called the suicide attack revenge for clashes last year.

"Turkistan Bitani's fighters killed 35 of our people last year, and we killed his people today in a suicide attack," Umar told The AP by phone.

Umar further condemned the U.S. bounty for his commander, saying: "God will protect Baitullah Mehsud."

South Waziristan also was the site of Wednesday's alleged U.S. missile strike, whose death toll included several foreigners, according to two other intelligence officials. The strike damaged two vehicles near Makeen, a town that borders Afghanistan.

The intelligence officials all spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.

The missile strike came as President Barack Obama's administration prepares to unveil a new strategy to quell Islamist insurgents threatening Pakistan and neighboring Afghanistan.

U.S. officials say the missile strikes, stepped up over the past year, have killed a string of militant leaders and put al-Qaida on the defensive. However, the Pakistani government argues the tactic is counterproductive because it kills civilians and stokes anti-American feeling.

 

[Hasnain2009]

Up to 50 killed in mosque bombing in Pakistan's Khyber agency
Article published on the 2009-03-27 Latest update 2009-03-27 16:56 TU


Pakistani tribesmen recover a body from the debris at the site of suicide blast near Jamrud in the Khyber agency
(Photo: Reuters)

Up to 50 people have been killed and over 100 injured in a suicide-bombing of a mosque in the Khyber tribal region of Pakistan. Local people are dragging the dead and injured from the rubble of the building. Only two minarets were left standing.
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"More than 70 people were wounded, there may be many more dead," top local official Tariq Hayat told the AFP news agency.

The bombing took place in the town of Jamrud in the Khyber region, one of Pakistan's self-adminstering tribal regions. The temporary mosque had been set up by local police and paramilitary troops who have a camp in the surrounding area and was packed for Friday prayers.

"People were in the mosque at prayer time and a young boy came and shouted ‘Allahu Akbar’," reports correspondent Behroz Khan, who has spoken to eyewitnesses and officials. "Even then he was sitting among the people, then he blew himself up."


RFI - Up to 50 killed in mosque bombing in Pakistan's Khyber agency