Next-Gen Chinese AAM for JF-17 Block III

[DarX]

View attachment 413563
PL15 BVRAAM with 200KM range and PL10 AAM.

With KLJ7A AESA and dual pulses solid rocket PL15 BVRAAM. JF17 BLK3 can shoot down any IAF fighter in BVR easily.

The max range of Russian R27 of IAF is only 110 KM.

JF17 Blk3 has much smaller RCS of Su30 MKI. Can target on Su30 MKI and fire PL15 before found.

God Damn, 200KM range of missile ..
PAF can remain way within their SAM cover and still can Engage any IAF fighter from a safe distance.. I wonder how good is this missile is from Jamming or Decoys ?

What is your source for this information? The Thunder has all weapons it needs and more are being integrated continuously. @Oscar

One question. Does the JF-17B have the radar and avionics to deploy such a long ranged AAM?

 

[YeBeWarned]

One question. Does the JF-17B have the radar and avionics to deploy such a long ranged AAM?

Block-3 will have KLJv2 aka Chinese AESA ..

 

[Sameer25]

Block-3 will have KLJv2 aka Chinese AESA ..

How is Chinese AESA compared to the rest of the world

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The newest PL-XX is about 700 km of range, but you probably need the AEW aircraft for the guidance.

How is Chinese AESA compared to the rest of the world

Here is the AESA radar of the J-20.

 

[khanasifm]

The newest PL-XX is about 700 km of range, but you probably need the AEW aircraft for the guidance.



Here is the AESA radar of the J-20.


View attachment 413746

No clue how to read it what is the unit here km/miles ?? Target ?? Looks like someone made it up as a joke

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

No clue how to read it what is the unit here km/miles ?? Target ?? Looks like someone made it up as a joke

The AESA radar usually produces enormous amount of heat when it is running. And the AESA radar of the J-20 can fry a swine from a distance of 1800 meters. This shows the power of the J-20 radar.

 

[DarX]

The AESA radar usually produces enormous amount of heat when it is running. And the AESA radar of the J-20 can fry a swine from a distance of 1800 meters. This shows the power of the J-20 radar.

How does the radar of the JF-17B compare to the radars of these much larger planes, and coming back to my main question, can the JF-17B radars support the deployment of these extremely long ranged AAMs?

 

[Blue Marlin]

Not every operational unit has everything in place


Apples to oranges the topowl or other helicopter helmets to aircraft systems
The french are currently out of our list

well in regards the blk3 there wont be a need for the irst. there is a serious need for a hmd.
can they do it by 2019 ?????

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

How does the radar of the JF-17B compare to the radars of these much larger planes, and coming back to my main question, can the JF-17B radars support the deployment of these extremely long ranged AAMs?

I guess it uses a smaller version of the AESA radar. And it needs the guidance of the AEW aircraft in order to launch a such long range A2A missile.

 

[messiach]

Yes, it is >10 y, so i am not aware what are AWC engagements these days.

Depends on whether their funding permits them to focus on such systems. From what I had heard a while back; their focus was on stand off munitions to counter the now very well built up Indian ADGE. All the way upto the mid 2000s we were still fairly capable of making a dent into their airspace and wreaking havoc with their infrastructure but with the new air defense systems they have operational, our best hope lies in Stand off munitions and ARMs to try and break through which was the focus.

AESA seekers the Chinese are working on, but if my (short)experience working with the Chinese on a system has told me anything; you need to chase them to get the quality that they seem to push for their own prototype inductions. But then, it depends on working group to working group.

 

[YeBeWarned]

How is Chinese AESA compared to the rest of the world

Chinese tech is catching up real fast, Chinese AESA will be good Enough for Tackling IAF ..

 

[ghazi768]

i was thinking more in terms of dealing with fixed installation like the s300/s400. the sypder and the qr sam would need to be dealt with fast moving missiles such as the ld-10 (below)

also since there mobile they wont have the same protection as they ned to be small and mobile whilst fixed installations would have the morfey/tor to protect it. pakistan would suffer the same problem with the fm-90.

I doubt that S300/400 will be in fixed installations, they were developed specifically for shoot and scoot and depending upon how Indians deploy them a layered AD complex. The issue for SEAD/DEAD using MAR-1 or LD-10 against such complexes will be that they most probably will be deployed deep inside enemy territory and trying to neutralise them without having air superiority will be very risky. On the other-hand if you achieve complete air superiority than no air defence can remain standing in time, but such a scenario is highly unlikely.

A SHORAD defence is must in a layered AD, overcoming it with cruise missile will need estimation of it and saturation. Historically, except against loner attacks, they have not performed that well against a volley of tomahawks to saturated defences.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I doubt that S300/400 will be in fixed installations, they were developed specifically for shoot and scoot and depending upon how Indians deploy them a layered AD complex. The issue for SEAD/DEAD using MAR-1 or LD-10 against such complexes will be that they most probably will be deployed deep inside enemy territory and trying to neutralise them without having air superiority will be very risky. On the other-hand if you achieve complete air superiority than no air defence can remain standing in time, but such a scenario is highly unlikely.

A SHORAD defence is must in a layered AD, overcoming it with cruise missile will need estimation of it and saturation. Historically, except against loner attacks, they have not performed that well against a volley of tomahawks to saturated defences.

i dont think they would move the s300/400 in a mobile installations but rather fixed installations providing the number of systems they have.

saturation attacks are the new way forward as radards are getting too complex. the idea for using long range cruise missiles came in as the indians does not have a true close in defence system like the panstir or morfey. go getting close to the s400 should not be that hard.

but yes, saturation is the way forward and thats would need long range 200km+ ,sows any thing upto 130km should be fine if fired in the desired numbers but would risk being tracked and targeted.

personally the pakistani move for going for advanced mrls is a good idea as its less risky than sending a fighter and is cheaper and you can fire more missiles at said missile system.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The SD-10 is a good missile and where the JF-17 is concerned its a pretty potent combination due to the fairly small RCS, networked sensors and very good GCI and pilot SA over the eastern front in most aspects today.
The requirement is for a more effective WVR missile but that is secondary to the need for a helmet mounted cueing system because the missiles are readily available from other sources but the HMDS is not with the capable type the PAF wants; the good old R-73 type monocle system has been tried with the F-7PGs who have used it in exercises, but the PAF prefers a whole on solution like the JHCMS(now that they have tasted it).
However, with the systems available there have to be compatibility issues; so the Darter is available today if needed but the helmet to go with it involves Israel and the PAF has worked hard to keep any past Israeli sourcing in the dark and now with the Indo-Israeli beach romance it is not easy.
That leaves European sams for which diplomatic concerns are an issue as every Indian diplomat & military attache has specific instructions in their countries to relay even the most basic of inquiries by Pakistanis to their offices and for that matter the Indian diplomats are much much smarter and efficient as compared to the fat check hoarding dumbarses from Pakistan.

So without a cueing system available to fully utilize high off boresight missiles, there is no point in inducting any.

The other problem with European stuff is that they're also weary of China. If the PAF is asking BAE or Thales for anything then it is proof enough for them that an alternative is far from available in China. In their view, China has both incentive and means to acquire their HMD/S technology.

That said, there might be an alternative in South Africa again thanks to Airbus DS spinning-off its Optronics and Electronics divisions into the Hensoldt Group. Hensoldt's subsidiary in South Africa is known as Hensoldt Optronics South Africa (HOSA), and HOSA is supplying masts and periscopes to the PN for the Agosta 90B.

The R&D sites that HOSA inherited from Airbus DS are the same ones (under Carl Zeiss and Cassidian) that contributed to the development of the Saab Cobra HMD/S. While HOSA doesn't have new HMD/S tech (that anyone knows of), they do have the requisite talent and experience to develop one. It's up to them to agree, but if they do, they'll probably ask the PAF to pay a hefty fee for the development, especially since there's a chance that the IP will be in proximity to China (albeit co-owned by the PAF due to funding). On the other hand, HOSA would get assured work and they too will have a marketable HMD/S to offer against a handful of competitors.

 

[pzfz]

The PAF reminds me of a person here

He will always be near broke or with very little money, but will happily spend $80 on a PfChangs dinner yet spend two hours at Marshalls deciding on $40 pants and still not get them.

This cannot be overstated. Pak procurement makes no sense whatsoever - at least to my banking mind. They'll pay 60 bucks for an outdated model because they say they can't afford the 100 dollar one but will come back 5-10 years later seeking a 80 buck replacement for the old model to bring it up to the level of the 100 dollar one. It happens over and over again. Lack of funds or options does not fully explain it. It's infuriating.