New Threat to Pakistan with India,s New K4 SLBM test next month

[illusion8]

You may want to research a little more about the history of ABM systems instead of being " surprised " at the assumption or maybe thinking that the plans for a nation-wide are anything new , they still do not put much faith in their systems due to the astronomically high cost and the low effectiveness hence the exotic plans like Brilliant Pebbles . I am not ridiculing the tests , I am just asking to compare the results of even those tests with your expectations .

Now , come to think of it . There are countries that have been doing all that for decades and still well nothing tangible has come of it , that I can report as a " remedy " . You are free to prove me wrong on the effectiveness of ABM system .

I am not talking about it's effectiveness or it's successes here - of course that's a dark area - no one's claiming cent percent successes yet - what I was pointing towards is that all factors are considered into the R&D of these systems because the countries that are designing these systems already have these counter measures in place and are increasingly developing them and they know what kind of counter measures will be deployed. No one's even stopping the evolution of it. You still have to prove me which country is not confident of the research that it's doing on it's ABM system - surely the Indians aren't one of them because we haven't failed yet.

 

[MilSpec]

Not realy ; If you study the details of these tests ; The factors which will be present in a True full scale nuclear exchange are not present




And ofcource the counter measures will also be concentrated where the BMD is deployed

Deploying additional BM's for BMD which itself is counter measure to BM's... in other words you want to fire 5 to 10 missiles for every target... cool, And yes you are right additional missiles to defeat a ABM system will work....

Now in context of India and Pakistan, I will take my chances with a ABM umbrella, with the extra expense rather than not having one...

 

[illusion8]

Not realy ; If you study the details of these tests ; The factors which will be present in a True full scale nuclear exchange are not present

please post the details of the tests
Again, the tests are to fine tune interception at various levels, it's like saying no country as yet tested full scale nuclear exchange by launching hundreds of missiles "including blanks" all at one time so we cannot come to a conclusion whether such a mass scale launch will be successful.

 

[Alpha1]

Deploying additional BM's for BMD which itself is counter measure to BM's... in other words you want to fire 5 to 10 missiles for every target... cool, And yes you are right additional missiles to defeat a ABM system will work....

countermeasures of the BMD not only include additional BMs but also MIRVs, MARVs, Stealthy cruise missiles.

Now in context of India and Pakistan, I will take my chances with a ABM umbrella, with the extra expense rather than not having one...

Having one is better than not having one

 

[Secur]

I am not talking about it's effectiveness or it's successes here - of course that's a dark area - no one's claiming cent percent successes yet - what I was pointing towards is that all factors are considered into the R&D of these systems because the countries that are designing these systems already have these counter measures in place and are increasingly developing them and they know what kind of counter measures will be deployed. No one's even stopping the evolution of it. You still have to prove me which country is not confident of the research that it's doing on it's ABM system - surely the Indians aren't one of them because we haven't failed yet.

Did I deny that ? Of course , everything is taken into consideration as perceived , but not everything can be taken into consideration , because you cant anticipate everything , is that hard to understand ? Probably , you seem to think that the missiles have the same kind of countermeasures built in , in all and hence the countries developing them know how to defeat them . That isn't the case of course since again the offense is evolving faster than defense . You can start with this and then move on to strategic defense initiative - the most ambitious US program ever , check the results for yourself .

In the Nation; Why Another ABM? - New York Times

 

[OrionHunter]

BABU jee missile marna hai to mar do draao maat humko

Pyaar kiya tho darna kya? In other words, India se pyaar karoge tho daro ge nahin!!

PRITHVI AIR DEFENCE ................

NASR!!

 

[illusion8]

Did I deny that ? Of course , You can start with this and then move on to strategic defense initiative - the most ambitious US program ever , check the results for yourself .

In the Nation; Why Another ABM? - New York Times

I have read a few of the ambitious one's, nothing is beyond the realm of reality, one can argue on the cost, success ratio etc - that is not my argument at all.

What I said is that if and when we have a vast and credible missile interception network in place then that will be a threat.

everything is taken into consideration as perceived , but not everything can be taken into consideration

I think you are finding it hard to understand because you are contradicting yourself in one sentence.

Probably , you seem to think that the missiles have the same kind of countermeasures built in , in all and

That's exactly what I am saying the ABM countries know what are the counter measures because it's them who are developing the counter measures in the first place.

hence the countries developing them know how to defeat them .

re read my post a few more times if you find it difficult to understand - where did I say they know how to defeat them? they are still working on it - it's a dark area is what I said when it comes to success and probability.

That isn't the case of course since again the offense is evolving faster than defense.

Of course, and capabilities of countries vary in their ability to evolve faster as well.

 

[Secur]

@illusion8

No , I still do not think you have read up on the " most ambitious ones " since you seem to advocate heavily in favor of ABM systems without realizing their limitations . No country has unlimited money at their disposal , not even the mighty U.S. once planning to put " interceptors " in space . You consider things without taking into account - their feasibility and effectiveness and their probability of success , that is no argument at all then .To say that its a threat , yes everything is , what is the special thing about that ? . I think you couldn't understand the " as perceived " but not everything can be anticipated/perceived thing , its pure logic , we know the things we know , but we do not know everything . They do not even know what has the opponent has in store for them properly , forget developing effective defenses . Decide what you want to discuss because you omit almost all of it yourself - just wanting to call a shield as threat which like everything is .

 

[Dillinger]

@illusion8 @Secur what seems to be the problem gentlemen?

 

[Secur]

@illusion8 @Secur what seems to be the problem gentlemen?

I wish to discuss something without wanting to discuss its feasibility/effectiveness

 

[illusion8]

@illusion8

No , I still do not think you have read up on the " most ambitious ones " since you seem to advocate heavily in favor of ABM systems without realizing their limitations . You consider things without taking into account - their feasibility and effectiveness , that is no argument at all . To say that its a threat , yes everything is , what is the special thing about that ? . I think you couldn't understand the " as perceived " but not everything can be anticipated/perceived thing , its pure logic . They do not even know what has the opponent has in store for them . Decide what you want to discuss because you omit almost all of it yourself - just wanting to call a shield as threat which like everything is .

My argument was beyond the nitty gritty's of the successes and the feasibility of an ABM system - I am not here to discuss the costs and the probabilities of success of it as well. A credible ABM in the future will nullify Pakistan's nuclear blackmail and will give us some safety against it.

Pakistan Seeks To Counter Indian ABM Defenses | Missile ThreatMissile Threat
Broadsword: Anti-Ballistic Missile Defence: Star Wars over India

@illusion8 @Secur what seems to be the problem gentlemen?

No problem other than the mere typical comprehension problems.

 

[Secur]

My argument was beyond the nitty gritty's of the successes and the feasibility of an ABM system - I am not here to discuss the costs and the probabilities of success of it as well. A credible ABM in the future will nullify Pakistan's nuclear blackmail and will give us some safety against it.

You asked about the " confidence of the world power's on such systems " part , which well directly relates to this . Even if you do not want to discuss it . So you are not here to discuss the costs and probability of successful intercept but will just assume it as " credible " ? Then again the usage of " nullify the nuclear blackmail " and " give us some protection " in the same sentence ? How does it nullify the blackmail if the protection is " some " as per you ? What are you trying to say ?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Atleast stormforce didn't use caps this time.

 

[illusion8]

You asked about the " confidence of the world power's on such systems " part , which well directly relates to this . Even if you do not want to discuss it . So you are not here to discuss the costs and probability of successful intercept but will just assume it as " credible " ? Then again the usage of " nullify the nuclear blackmail " and " give us some protection " in the same sentence ? How does it nullify the blackmail if the protection is " some " as per you ? What are you trying to say ?

And, you have yet to come up with proof that countries are still not confident of their ABM systems. Even if it costs a bomb countries are doing it right?

Again, comprehension problems I guess - A full functional ABM (if one such exists) will nullify the nuclear blackmail right? Some protection as in - how effective will it really prove in an actual war environment.

 

[Secur]

And, you have yet to come up with proof that countries are still not confident of their ABM systems. Even if it costs a bomb countries are doing it right?

Again, comprehension problems I guess - A full functional ABM (if one such exists) will nullify the nuclear blackmail right? Some protection as in - how effective will it really prove in an actual war environment.

Well , I have provided links and even asked you to read up on previous programmes to accomplish that which didn't succeed . The point is that the cost becomes so high that it itself nullifies the advantage of the shield , which you are trying to put in place , nothing more . So you are back on discussing the effectiveness , interesting , you keep moving back and forth .

Not really - " some protection " as per you will not nullify any blackmail . At least , be clear on what you are talking about . You want to discuss the previous ABM systems but dont want to know their ability and feasibility , it doesn't work that way .