New SinoPak MBT in Planning.

[Whiplash]

How its far superior to T-90S and Arjun?

For the last 2 years India also operates the T90M which is more advanced. India is also in the process of equipping these with the SAAB APS. (Someone told me it may be trophy)

 

[Jigs]

Pakistan will probably work with China on further improvements to their tank. Turkey has gone with South Korea because we liked what they were doing with the K-2 and also because we have dealt with their arms in the past and had good experiences (T-155 is a modified K-9). It was smart outright buying the technology for half a billion dollars and having their team assistance us through out the process making R&D process for advanced modern tanks much easier.

 

[Jigs]

check the unit price please, can any nation afford to operation thousands of such tanks? probably not any.
it is never about the absolute spec itself, when necessary we can build a super expensive but super capable tank, then only give the army 10 of them.

the korean one is just a toy used to fuel nationalism in their country. when it is several times more expensive than other major tanks, you have to ask what are they really want to achieve.

They are going to be fielding 390 and obviously form the price and capabilities this isn't a generic 3rd generation for mass production. The K-1 will still make up their backbone.

Turkey is looking for 4 batches of tanks 250 each with upgrades in each batch this is most likely going to move into 2020 and beyond.

 

[farhan_9909]

Al khalid even at present is one of the best tank.

we should just have a JV with any nation or develop an indegenous engine for Al khalid II..this will even reduce the cost of Al khalid local production and will give us experiance in tank engine manufacturing.

 

[Tin Man]

Al khalid even at present is one of the best tank.

we should just have a JV with any nation or develop an indegenous engine for Al khalid II..this will even reduce the cost of Al khalid local production and will give us experiance in tank engine manufacturing.

The al khalid is not as great as you think it to be. Assume the tank is hit by enemy fire. The al khalid would fry the crew inside. This was something my colleague told me once. Please excuse my poor english.

 

[alimobin memon]

The al khalid is not as great as you think it to be. Assume the tank is hit by enemy fire. The al khalid would fry the crew inside. This was something my colleague told me once. Please excuse my poor english.

we are muslims and islam says die in battle but never retreat...
so we rather fry ...

 

[Tin Man]

we are muslims and islam says die in battle but never retreat...
so we rather fry ...

Well, if you have a highly mobilized army (like deutschland in ww2) , you could assault a large formation quickly, retreat and then regroup to confront them later. You can keep this up and effectively neutralise the enemy. Sorry for going offtopic.

 

[IceCold]

The al khalid is not as great as you think it to be. Assume the tank is hit by enemy fire. The al khalid would fry the crew inside. This was something my colleague told me once. Please excuse my poor english.

Can you please elaborate on your colleagues comment? On what basis did he made this comment?

 

[ANG]

Hi, Pakistan should simply license produce the T99 tank. The current AK at 48 tonnes seems a bit small compared to the newer tanks out there. However, I think the AK2 will be heavier.

BTW these guys produce in bulk... pretty impressive.

Chinese PLA Tank Production Line ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Hi, Pakistan should simply license produce the T99 tank. The current AK at 48 tonnes seems a bit small compared to the newer tanks out there. However, I think the AK2 will be heavier.

BTW these guys produce in bulk... pretty impressive.

Chinese PLA Tank Production Line ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

Should licence produce the type 99KM when its available.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Well, if you have a highly mobilized army (like deutschland in ww2) , you could assault a large formation quickly, retreat and then regroup to confront them later. You can keep this up and effectively neutralise the enemy. Sorry for going offtopic.

Mobilisation is something Pakistan Army(PA) can be proud of, but keep in mind what context we are talking about. Unlike the Wehrmacht, we lack the resources to launch deep offensive operations against an enemy that is much larger in size and more resourcefull. Alkhalid is not the best tank when you compare it one on one against the likes of Abrams and Leopards, the purpose of Alkhalid is to fulfil PA's doctrine of halting advance of the Indian armour and it fulfills that role perfectly. From what i can gather, the strategy of PA's armour is to let the Indians advance in taking punishment from our infantry and engage them when they are tired and try to outflank or encircle them once they are deep in.

If both sides mobilize fully, you will never see our Armour running to the border unless we know where exactly the Indians are going to launch an offensive. If we do deploy our armour near the border, we risk it getting battered by IAF or Smerch. The Indians are adding mobility and are hoping to beat PA's Armour to the border if war is declared, for that our Armour is perfect because our modern MBT's have mobility and speed too so the risk of getting surprised is very little unless the Indians come up with something very creative. Thus, Alkhalid is the best option for a poor country like Pakistan because it serves perfectly what it is required for. Abrams and Leopards are good toys for rich nations whom can afford to splash out big $$$ and spoil their Armour.

 

[GodlessBastard]

Mobilisation is something Pakistan Army(PA) can be proud of, but keep in mind what context we are talking about. Unlike the Wehrmacht, we lack the resources to launch deep offensive operations against an enemy that is much larger in size and more resourcefull. Alkhalid is not the best tank when you compare it one on one against the likes of Abrams and Leopards, the purpose of Alkhalid is to fulfil PA's doctrine of halting advance of the Indian armour and it fulfills that role perfectly. From what i can gather, the strategy of PA's armour is to let the Indians advance in taking punishment from our infantry and engage them when they are tired and try to outflank or encircle them once they are deep in.

If both sides mobilize fully, you will never see our Armour running to the border unless we know where exactly the Indians are going to launch an offensive. If we do deploy our armour near the border, we risk it getting battered by IAF or Smerch. The Indians are adding mobility and are hoping to beat PA's Armour to the border if war is declared, for that our Armour is perfect because our modern MBT's have mobility and speed too so the risk of getting surprised is very little unless the Indians come up with something very creative. Thus, Alkhalid is the best option for a poor country like Pakistan because it serves perfectly what it is required for. Abrams and Leopards are good toys for rich nations whom can afford to splash out big $$$ and spoil their Armour.

Pakistan's doctrine is called the Riposte, which is basically an offensive-defensive doctrine. I remember that General Mirza Aslam Beg gave a good outline of this strategy back in 1997. Basically, Pakistan knows that India's offensive capabilities have substantially increased, and a static defence like in 1965 or 1971 would no longer be effective. So, the PA seeks to maintain strategic initiative by launching limited offensives into Indian territory as a means of tying down Indian forces, rather than sitting and waiting for an Indian offensive(s). By containing combat on the Indian side of the border, the PA hopes to reduce collateral damage, keep Indian forces dispersed, and secure territory of strategic importance for use in post-war negotiations. The spearhead of this strategy would be the 1st Armored Division in Multan.

Interestingly, India's Cold Start doctrine seeks to accomplish similar objectives, and it may render the Riposte obsolete. The Riposte was developed primarily as a counter to the "total war" Sundarjee Doctrine, which basically aimed to fully mobilize India's three strike corps and cut Pakistan in half via powerful mechanized offensives with heavy air support. This doctrine was tested in Operation Brasstacks back in the 80s. I have not heard of any new doctrine (on paper or otherwise) that PA is developing as a counter to Cold Start.

At present, Pakistan's armored forces are primarily deployed as offensive weapons, which is perhaps how tanks are best deployed as. Similarly, India's T-90 and T-72 fleets are also deployed as offensive weapons. The notable exception is the Arjun, which I think will be deployed as a defensive weapon. It is important to keep in mind that Cold Start not only seeks to forward deploy armored forces and artillery in IBGs, but to also deploy limited quantites of armor and artillery in India's Pivot Corps. The pivot corps will probably be the ones dealing with any limited PA offensives, while the IBGs launch the main operational maneuvers. I think the Arjun will fill this niche, and become India's defensive tank for the pivot corps.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^ You are assuming Pakistan's military doctrine is exactly as described, in the past, but especially currently.

 

[GodlessBastard]

^^ You are assuming Pakistan's military doctrine is exactly as described, in the past, but especially currently.

"No plan of battle ever survives contact with the enemy."

- Helmuth von Moltke

 

[Donatello]

Pakistan's doctrine is called the Riposte, which is basically an offensive-defensive doctrine. I remember that General Mirza Aslam Beg gave a good outline of this strategy back in 1997. Basically, Pakistan knows that India's offensive capabilities have substantially increased, and a static defence like in 1965 or 1971 would no longer be effective. So, the PA seeks to maintain strategic initiative by launching limited offensives into Indian territory as a means of tying down Indian forces, rather than sitting and waiting for an Indian offensive(s). By containing combat on the Indian side of the border, the PA hopes to reduce collateral damage, keep Indian forces dispersed, and secure territory of strategic importance for use in post-war negotiations. The spearhead of this strategy would be the 1st Armored Division in Multan.

Interestingly, India's Cold Start doctrine seeks to accomplish similar objectives, and it may render the Riposte obsolete. The Riposte was developed primarily as a counter to the "total war" Sundarjee Doctrine, which basically aimed to fully mobilize India's three strike corps and cut Pakistan in half via powerful mechanized offensives with heavy air support. This doctrine was tested in Operation Brasstacks back in the 80s. I have not heard of any new doctrine (on paper or otherwise) that PA is developing as a counter to Cold Start.

At present, Pakistan's armored forces are primarily deployed as offensive weapons, which is perhaps how tanks are best deployed as. Similarly, India's T-90 and T-72 fleets are also deployed as offensive weapons. The notable exception is the Arjun, which I think will be deployed as a defensive weapon. It is important to keep in mind that Cold Start not only seeks to forward deploy armored forces and artillery in IBGs, but to also deploy limited quantites of armor and artillery in India's Pivot Corps. The pivot corps will probably be the ones dealing with any limited PA offensives, while the IBGs launch the main operational maneuvers. I think the Arjun will fill this niche, and become India's defensive tank for the pivot corps.

India has Smerch, while Pakistan is getting the Norinco. There has been a recent movement in MBRLs acquisition with the army, and to be honest, fighting on plane land like in Sindh/Rajasthan/Punjab, having MBRLs does make sense. But Tanks will remain an important tool, and while PAF modifies itself, there must be full cooperation among all three Armed forces to succeed in thwarting an attack.