Nehru sought US assistance during 1962 Indo-China war Nehru sought

[Hindustani78]

I wish it was true. But Indian army was demoralised at the human wave tactics employed by PLA. The PLA had better numbers, better equipment and more supplies.



In 1962 war the PLA had cut off NE from rest of India. They entered and occupied the Assamese town of Tezpur. There was panic in Delhi. The Indian army was given orders for retreat in order to put up a defence of bengal.

India was completely unprepared and overpowered in 1962.

The psychological impact was so profound hat even in 21st century Delhi downplays Chinese incursions in Ladakh. Remeber how the PLA camped inside Ladak for 3 days??

India’s defence lay along the Nepal kingdom’s northern border, Nepal’s independence notwithstanding and its reality.

Col Pyara Lal, the chief Army PRO, took charge. On 15-17 November, we drove up to Se La (15,000 feet) and Dirang Dzong in the valley beyond before the climb to Bomdila. Jawans in cottons and perhaps a light sweater and canvas shoes were manhandling ancient 25-pounders into position at various vantage points.

the Chinese stopped about 50 km short of Tezpur town and retreated immediately.

Chinese incursions at Longju and Khizemane in Arunachal Pradesh and the Kongka Pass, Galwan and Chip Chap Valleys in Ladakh followed through 1959.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The irony was that the Chinese made similar claims on Pakistani territory. And Pakistan even proposed an alliance with India to tackle the Chinese threat. But in 1962 the Pakistanis saw an opportunity to neutralise Indian numerical superiority. They gladly traded territory for Chinese alliance. The rest as they say is history.

If you were not totally blank on these issues, Ayub Khan proposed to the US that they take this opportunity of taking back Kashmir, drawing a thundering scold from Galbraith.

I really wonder about you.

 

[Hindustani78]

If you were not totally blank on these issues, Ayub Khan proposed to the US that they take this opportunity of taking back Kashmir, drawing a thundering scold from Galbraith.

I really wonder about you.

According to some articles , it was said that Shah of Iran was willing to send troops to assist Indian soldiers and during that same time Egyptian troops went into Yemen.

The Tibetan uprising in 1959 led India to buy transport planes and helicopters from the Soviet Union as the Soviets were prepared to accept payment in Indian currency. In October 1960, an Indian delegation went to Moscow to negotiate and finalise the deal for the purchase of aircraft and communications equipment. The Chinese attack on India in 1962, however, placed the USSR in a delicate position as it was difficult for it not to support a Communist state, Hence, Moscow adopted a neutral position. The US, on the other hand, sent twelve C-130 Hercules transport planes with the crews to help India in transporting its men and materials on the mountainous borders.

Soviet Union/China were battling US in Vietnam during that time.


China had used 3 divisions in Arunachal Pradesh and penetrated from Tawang to Se La to Dirang to Dzong to Bomdi La AND another at Walong encircling the Indian troops, which were completed scattered and outnumbered. While eastern command (Arunachal Pradesh) was with Gen Kaul, the Chinese troops kept penetrating Arunachal Pradesh and had almost reached Assam. The Western command which was under Gen Daulet Singh was doing great and though India was at a disadvantaged position, it was an even contest there.

 

[chauism]

Quite right. I don't know who that blowhard is, but he has at least contributed a few good moments this dull evening.

@chauism

Where are you lurking?

I have never left this forum, however for the past few years I feel like stay low profile as there isn't much topic worth of my time of replying since for every response I give I need to understand the subject from many aspect. So the only post I will give my reply to are those technical stuff were the answer is always black and white. I also realize that in history and international politics there was almost impossible to define what is true there. Every once in a while, there's a day with an absolute right and an absolute wrong, but those days almost always include body counts. Looking at behaviour of some of the Chinese members as well as Indian members here, that day might be coming sooner than expected, but luckily both countries are not run by them. Anyways let me know how may I be your assistance here.

BTW, what is the debate about here?

 

[Hindustani78]

Public opinion and agitations against incursions by an increasingly aggressive China finally caused
the Prime Minister to issue an order to ‘throw the Chinese out’: an order that the army in its unprepared
state could not possibly enforce. China got just the excuse that it needed to launch a well prepared
offensive. Caught in the untenable ‘Forward Posture’, the isolated posts which had no covering fire,
mutual support, or reserves, were defeated by the Chinese who attacked with overwhelming strength
on 20 Oct 1962 simultaneously in the Eastern and Western fronts. Heroic resistance was offered at
Walong, Bumla, Namka Chu, Rezangla, Sirijap, but these fell to the overwhelming strength of the
assaults on these posts. Three Param Vir Chakras were awarded to Subedar Joginder Singh, Major Dhan
Singh Thapa, and Major Shaitan Singh for courage beyond the call of duty

The troops were armed with World War II vintage bolt action rifles against Chinese automaticweapons. There was insufficient artillery, no mines or barbed wire, and the troops were inadequatelyclad against the winter conditions
that had set in. American war correspondents reported that “the Indian Army lacked nearly everything except courage and of that there was plenty.’’

Nevertheless, at battalion, company and junior level, the Indian Army fought with its usual courage,
fortitude and willingness to sacrifice their lives, if needed. Time and time again, units and sub-units
cut off, faced by superior enemy forces had fought on, often to the last man and last round. It was this
realisation that the core values of the Army were still intact that gave hope that the spirit of the Army
could be quickly revived. The Chinese Army during these operations attacked in the ratio of 5:1.

The Indian Air Force was not deployed in an offensive role during the operations, but the IAF helicopter and transport fleet worked round the clock to evacuate casualties, undertake reconnaissance,and keep the army supplied in the face of all obstacles. The material and morale value of this airsupport was incalculable.


Overall, the Indian Army was outnumbered, outgunned and outmaneuvered. 1423 soldiers andofficers were killed, 3018 were wounded, 3587 were taken prisoner and 1655 were declared missingbelieved killed. The bulk of the Indian Army was however untouched and reinforcements were moving up. Winter however was setting in and the Chinese realised that they would not be able to sustain a prolonged war across an extended line of communication through snowbound passes. They decided unilaterally to withdraw.

 

[chauism]

Public opinion and agitations against incursions by an increasingly aggressive China finally caused
the Prime Minister to issue an order to ‘throw the Chinese out’: an order that the army in its unprepared
state could not possibly enforce. China got just the excuse that it needed to launch a well prepared
offensive. Caught in the untenable ‘Forward Posture’, the isolated posts which had no covering fire,
mutual support, or reserves, were defeated by the Chinese who attacked with overwhelming strength
on 20 Oct 1962 simultaneously in the Eastern and Western fronts. Heroic resistance was offered at
Walong, Bumla, Namka Chu, Rezangla, Sirijap, but these fell to the overwhelming strength of the
assaults on these posts. Three Param Vir Chakras were awarded to Subedar Joginder Singh, Major Dhan
Singh Thapa, and Major Shaitan Singh for courage beyond the call of duty

The troops were armed with World War II vintage bolt action rifles against Chinese automaticweapons. There was insufficient artillery, no mines or barbed wire, and the troops were inadequatelyclad against the winter conditions
that had set in. American war correspondents reported that “the Indian Army lacked nearly everything except courage and of that there was plenty.’’

Nevertheless, at battalion, company and junior level, the Indian Army fought with its usual courage,
fortitude and willingness to sacrifice their lives, if needed. Time and time again, units and sub-units
cut off, faced by superior enemy forces had fought on, often to the last man and last round. It was this
realisation that the core values of the Army were still intact that gave hope that the spirit of the Army
could be quickly revived. The Chinese Army during these operations attacked in the ratio of 5:1.

The Indian Air Force was not deployed in an offensive role during the operations, but the IAF helicopter and transport fleet worked round the clock to evacuate casualties, undertake reconnaissance,and keep the army supplied in the face of all obstacles. The material and morale value of this airsupport was incalculable.


Overall, the Indian Army was outnumbered, outgunned and outmaneuvered. 1423 soldiers andofficers were killed, 3018 were wounded, 3587 were taken prisoner and 1655 were declared missingbelieved killed. The bulk of the Indian Army was however untouched and reinforcements were moving up. Winter however was setting in and the Chinese realised that they would not be able to sustain a prolonged war across an extended line of communication through snowbound passes. They decided unilaterally to withdraw.

Just a minor correction here, I don't think Type 56 assault rifles aka copy of Ak-47 had wild spread within Chinese army yet, the best you can say is against semi automatic weapon as in 1962 Type 56 semi automatic rifle aka copy of SKS and Type 50 mechine pistols aka PPSh are the standard weapon within PLA's service.

 

[Argon Prime]

Just a minor correction here, I don't think Type 56 assault rifles aka copy of Ak-47 had wild spread within Chinese army yet, the best you can say is against semi automatic weapon as in 1962 Type 56 semi automatic rifle aka copy of SKS and Type 50 mechine pistols aka PPSh are the standard weapon within PLA's service.

True but inconsequential cause riflemen are hardly trained in automatic firing!!At least that's how it's done in Indian Army.Their entire firing drills are based around well aimed, semi automatic firing.In fact,they make it to such a point that soldiers are always instructed never to change the settings of the selector lever unless have been instructed to do so by the drill Sergent and if anyone gets caught disobeying it,well.............

 

[Hindustani78]

Just a minor correction here, I don't think Type 56 assault rifles aka copy of Ak-47 had wild spread within Chinese army yet, the best you can say is against semi automatic weapon as in 1962 Type 56 semi automatic rifle aka copy of SKS and Type 50 mechine pistols aka PPSh are the standard weapon within PLA's service.

Those weapons were first used in Vietnam by the Chinese and Soviets.
Model K-50M

Chinese were using SKSs, AKs and probably Mosin Nagants and PPsh s remnants of the Korean War.

Now the Indians were armed with Ishapore No1 rifles in .303s, Bren guns, sten SMGs and even FALs.

 

[anant_s]

Anything is possible.

I am now a teenager, and a bhakt! So the Sun has risen in the west, not a big deal, and your huge stockpile of nuclear devices made the Chinese withdraw.

on a serious note sir, was chinese nuclear threat really concerned Indian army generals?
from what i know, those were years of infancy for chinese nuclear program and therefore of little consideration.
however i read in a book (Critical Mass by William Burrows and Robert Windrem), that Indian establishment was quite concerned with the chinese n capability and infact this war and concern later led to acceleration of India's own program in late 60s.

 

[Hindustani78]

Charlie company of 13 Kumaon battalion 114 out of 123 Indian soldiers perished defending the nation.

on a serious note sir, was chinese nuclear threat really concerned Indian army generals?
from what i know, those were years of infancy for chinese nuclear program and therefore of little consideration.
however i read in a book (Critical Mass by William Burrows and Robert Windrem), that Indian establishment was quite concerned with the chinese n capability and infact this war and concern later led to acceleration of India's own program in late 60s.

Adaptation of CHIC 1 for bomber delivery and test of a missile warhead (CHIC 4). The third nuclear test was conducted on 9 September 1966 using a Tu-16 bomber.

From 1955 to 1959, approximately 260 Chinese nuclear scientists and engineers went to the Soviet Union, while roughly the same number of Soviet nuclear experts traveled to China to work in its nuclear industry. However, by 1959 the rift between the Soviet Union and China had become so great that the Soviet Union discontinued all assistance to China.

On 27 October 1966, China launched a Dong Feng-2 (DF-2) medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM) from the Shuangchengzi Missile Test Site in Gansu province, which struck its target in the Lop Nur Test Site. The missile carried a 12 kiloton nuclear warhead, marking the only time that a country has tested a nuclear warhead on a ballistic missile over populated areas.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have never left this forum, however for the past few years I feel like stay low profile as there isn't much topic worth of my time of replying since for every response I give I need to understand the subject from many aspect. So the only post I will give my reply to are those technical stuff were the answer is always black and white. I also realize that in history and international politics there was almost impossible to define what is true there. Every once in a while, there's a day with an absolute right and an absolute wrong, but those days almost always include body counts. Looking at behaviour of some of the Chinese members as well as Indian members here, that day might be coming sooner than expected, but luckily both countries are not run by them. Anyways let me know how may I be your assistance here.

BTW, what is the debate about here?

Hello there.

It starts with the proposition that Nehru asked the US for help after his eastern front collapsed, and according to some incredible people, the PLA declared a ceasefire and withdrew because of the threat of the US coming in on the side of India.

I nagged you to come to this thread only to be amused. We are now being told all over again how the 1962 war was fought, and with some opinions and extra thoughts which are entertaining. Personally, this was the funniest time: just read #65, smile and relax. It is not much of a thread except for these little jokes and entertainments.

Hope you are well.

I had also kept a very low profile for some time, but that was because I was teaching professionally, and needed my wits about me all the time.

on a serious note sir, was chinese nuclear threat really concerned Indian army generals?
from what i know, those were years of infancy for chinese nuclear program and therefore of little consideration.
however i read in a book (Critical Mass by William Burrows and Robert Windrem), that Indian establishment was quite concerned with the chinese n capability and infact this war and concern later led to acceleration of India's own program in late 60s.

I am not aware of ANY concern with Chinese nuclear devices among any of the generals involved in this fighting.

 

[Spectre]

If you were not totally blank on these issues, Ayub Khan proposed to the US that they take this opportunity of taking back Kashmir, drawing a thundering scold from Galbraith.

I really wonder about you.

This is how urban legends are born - repeat a half truth or lie often enough.

 

[Dungeness]

He could in no way 'break up india'.Logistical lines of chinese were stretched to limit over himalayas and indian reinforcements were assembling from the mainland.He would no longer face 10,000 soldiers with 80,000 with surprise on their side.Mao did want to tecah nehru a lesson and he did,but further chinese advance would have been militarily suicidal due to logistics as india had not yet involved its air force in ground attack operations which would have had free run.So chinese attained their objective and did the militarily prudent thing of withdrawing.
Chinese won 1962 because of 3 factors -
1.Surprise
2.Decisive numerical superiority (8:1)
3.Technological superiority in equipment(ak-47 vs .303)

When I said the Mao did not want to break up with India, I meant Mao did not want to turn India as a permanent enemy as two countries had the similar historical footings and were cooperating in many fronts.

First point in bold has always been a popular Indian excuse for the defeat, and exhaustively used by Indian members in defending the military defeat, alongside with the classic rhetoric of "backstabbing". Chinese side has different view about the numbers both side involved in the war: India 2.2K vs China 2.0K. 中印边境战争 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书

Second point in bold is also a myth. It can't explain the fact that Nehru wrote to JFK in desperation asking for the air support if Indian's air force alone was capable of turning the tide.

I do agree the logistics difficulties PLA was facing, but it was not more difficult than when PLA fighting with UN in Korea War, facing the vastly superior US air raids.

 

[nForce]

If you were not totally blank on these issues, Ayub Khan proposed to the US that they take this opportunity of taking back Kashmir, drawing a thundering scold from Galbraith.

I really wonder about you.

We have moles within ourselves..rats.. ' 62 was Nehru's fault.. He was intimidated by the military takeover in Pakistan and scared by what Field Marshall Kariappa had to say about it.

Probably out of context, probably not, Rajiv Gandhi had termed Kolkata as a 'dying city' once. Now, personally, I never felt at home in Kolkata, but, I do take offense..

 

[Dungeness]

I don't know who taught you history but he fact is when chinese tried to do an invasion of Vietnam the Vietnamese hammered them. The world knows Vietnam defeated China and even the Chinese get defensive when the issue is raised. But everyone knows 1962 was a disaster of epic proportions for India.

Sorry, but I think your history was taught by Vietnamese. China had never intended to grab Vietnamese land to begin with, they just want to teach Vietnamese a lesson, very much like they did in 1962. They did face the stronger opposition than they did in 1962, therefore suffered a heavier loss, in the end they did accomplished one of two strategic goals, proving to Vietnam that USSR would not come to their aid.

When Tibet become part of China ?

Officially in 1951. Seventeen Point Agreement for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What I read that China retreat because of nuclear threats from us ? @Joe Shearer

What you heard is pretty funny. I hope you are just kidding.