Need of Long Range Surveillance Units

[Sine Nomine]

SSG(N) has an interdiction team which is also tasked with recon role. SSW has 10th SRF(Spec Recon Fl) for recon role. SSG has a company for this purpose, but SSG has conducted many roles like this and most are not known to public.

You forgot Bhartis favourite BAT.

 

[Ghost 125]

240 km behind enemy lines in hindu infested territory in todays modern era with fast reporting channel is simply not fesible or possible. take for example the case of botched SSG operation against indian airbases in 1965. it ended in complete failure. beside for reconicence and surveilence on tactical and stretegic level now much modern techniques like UAVs sattelites and electronics are used.[/QUOTE]

 

[Sabretooth]

240 km behind enemy lines in hindu infested territory in todays modern era with fast reporting channel is simply not fesible or possible. take for example the case of botched SSG operation against indian airbases in 1965. it ended in complete failure. beside for reconicence and surveilence on tactical and stretegic level now much modern techniques like UAVs sattelites and electronics are used.

[/QUOTE]

Surely they have enough sense not to run around in densely populated areas. They operate in remote jungles, hills, etc.
High-Value Assets are usually kept away from the dense populations. SAMs or BMDs are mostly deployed in inconspicuous areas in order to minimize collateral damage in case of an enemy strike. These units exactly track and hunt these kinds of HVAs.
Also, the deployment Man-Portable nukes, if needed, would require the presence of "man" in the first place.

 

[Ghost 125]

[/QUOTE]
that was exactly the idea in 1965 as well but how it turned out is well known. u cant hide with all your warlike paraphenalia in over crowded india. its not North Africa where a long range desert group can criss cross and operate at 100s of kms without being detected

 

[Sabretooth]

that was exactly the idea in 1965 as well but how it turned out is well known. u cant hide with all your warlike paraphenalia in over crowded india. its not North Africa where a long range desert group can criss cross and operate at 100s of kms without being detected

First of all, SSG landed in the disputed territory of IOK, not India.
1965 fiasco was the result of miscalculation regarding the support from the indigenous population.

If you read my post again, I have mentioned that these units are different from Spec Ops commandos. I don't know why you keep on comparing them with SSG.

The main purpose of LRSU is passive intelligence gathering and designating high-value targets for precision strikes. Stealth is their key. They are in and out without firing a single shot. They are in no rush. They take their time. May even stay in up to a month without any supplies and back up. They engage neither the enemy nor the native population.
Sure it is suicide to send them towards eastern plains but northern woods and mountainous terrain provides sufficient cover.

 

[alibaz]

We have LRSUs or otherwise shall not be discussed. I believe once so many sensors are available why to risk your people. Gone are the days when Armies and Corps used to maneuver and envelop enemy forces or large group of forces would pass through the enemy lines. Technology has enhanced surveillance and counter surveillance capabilities, therefore, new methods and tools. Lets not discuss any further.

 

[Cuirassier]

In Op Gibraltar, the SSG elements handled this job with ease, irregulars who made up the bulk of the force, made the job harder, plus their task of holding area where most locals gave them away, was unreal. From 5th to 31st August the IA lost 253 troops in J&K. Only a handful of regulars were lost in this time period, including 2 offrs.

 

[Sabretooth]

We have LRSUs or otherwise shall not be discussed. I believe once so many sensors are available why to risk your people. Gone are the days when Armies and Corps used to maneuver and envelop enemy forces or large group of forces would pass through the enemy lines. Technology has enhanced surveillance and counter surveillance capabilities, therefore, new methods and tools. Lets not discuss any further.

Why does ISI excel at intelligence gathering? One word - HUMINT

 

[alibaz]

Why does ISI excel at intelligence gathering? One word - HUMINT

HUMINT does not only mean that you send your troops behind enemy lines that's why I said new methods and tools and did not specify human or technical.

 

[Ghost 125]

First of all, SSG landed in the disputed territory of IOK, not India.
1965 fiasco was the result of miscalculation regarding the support from the indigenous population.

If you read my post again, I have mentioned that these units are different from Spec Ops commandos. I don't know why you keep on comparing them with SSG.

The main purpose of LRSU is passive intelligence gathering and designating high-value targets for precision strikes. Stealth is their key. They are in and out without firing a single shot. They are in no rush. They take their time. May even stay in up to a month without any supplies and back up. They engage neither the enemy nor the native population.
Sure it is suicide to send them towards eastern plains but northern woods and mountainous terrain provides sufficient cover.

ok since u ve oppened the thread for discussion so offcourse i ll give my opinion. i was comparing it to SSg becoz we dont have anything seperate for this, it is one of the task of SSG but on tactical level becouse the demography does not allow us to operate in a vast and crowded country like india in that specific way.
perfect example of such operations are israeli ops against iraqi and syrian reactors orisak etc where commandos of shytat 13 (SOF unit like SSG) recconitered and marked the targets. same is not possible or to be modest extremely difficult inside india. iraqi and syrian targets were in deserts and those terretories were not heavily militaralised like huge indian military and paramilitary setups

Why does ISI excel at intelligence gathering? One word - HUMINT

HUMINT is somthing totally different it is done through sources and not specialised units

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

they can only operate if they get some support from enemy public otherwise they will be easily arrested by indian forces

The Israelis disagree.

Sayeret Maktal specifically.

 

[Ghost 125]

The Israelis disagree.

Sayeret Maktal specifically.

its easy to operate in syrian desert where population density is too low, cant do anything like that in a densely populated country with strong armed forces

 

[R Wing]

Does the Pakistan Army have any Long Range Surveillance Units like the US Army had?
If YES, then which one are they? Name designation etc.
If NO, then why?

A brief summary of LRSU for the uninitiated:

LRSU (Long Range Surveillance Units) trace their origin to the US Army’s famous Long-Range Reconnaissance Units known also as LRRPs (during the Vietnam war era).

They are not to be confused with special forces commandos because Long Range Surveillance Units perform passive intelligence gathering missions, and are not equipped for offensive combat operations but are able to do some stuff.

Important characteristics of LRSUs:

• Long Range Surveillance Units take great pains to avoid being detected. Stealth is the key. They are in and out without firing a single shot. They were there the whole time and enemy is none the wiser.
  
  
• Long Range Surveillance Units provide Army divisions, and Corps with the ability to deploy highly-skilled reconnaissance patrols deep into the enemy’s rear, behind enemy lines.
  
  
• Usually operating as six-man teams, Long Range Surveillance Units teams are trained extensively in long-range communications, survival, covert observation, various infiltration techniques, hunting and tracking.
  
  
• Many LRSU unit members are qualified in HALO/HAHO and combat diving skills. In certain situations, they may also engage in stay behind operations.
  
  
• Units are capable of being infiltrated on foot, by aircraft, parachute, or small boats.
  
  
• Units may be deployed up to 240 kilometres behind enemy lines.
  
  
• They are expected to operate on their own, for up to thirty days. Trained to hunt with bows, spears, knives etc. and lay traps.
  
  
• Team members are capable of providing bomb damage assessments; directing artillery fire; and locating enemy troop concentrations;
  
  
• Targeting enemy anti-aircraft systems for destruction. SAMs are usually well hidden in inconspicuous areas. LRSU could direct GMLRS or designate targets for a precision cruise missile strike.
  
  
• Trained in deploying Special Atomic Demolition Munition (SADM) aka man-portable nuclear weapons.

This concept was rejected by Col. Beckwith and others who favored a more "white" spec ops set-up (Army SF) and then a Tier 1 "special mission unit" (Delta Force, to use its popular name.)

However, operations behind enemy lines are undertaken by special operations units; in our case, this job falls to the SSG. They are training to infiltrate, live off the land, blend in, do their thing and exfiltrate. And they have, many times.

Pakistan is in state to fight defensive war and i think there is no need for LRSU and due to technology we are getting live streaming and also got PGBs and cruise missiles with pinpoint accuracy to flush them out

We need offense (i.e. raising the cost for the enemy) as part of our defensive strategy.

 

[Möbius Curve]

Why does ISI excel at intelligence gathering? One word - HUMINT

HUMINT is NOT a child's play. It carries with itself serious implications. You must carry with yourself perhaps a bottle of Cyanide Or wire yourself with explosives but whatever, might be learn Rule No. 01: NEVER GET CAUGHT! But HUMINT Operatives are highly trained peoples, trained to walk on threaded intricate paths!

IF you are ever get caught, then to whatever extent your imagination runs ............ can happen to you!

Of course, just as CIA & PENTAGON carves the strategic foreign policy & vision of U.S, just like that ISI and Foreign Offices of Pakistan are the driving force behind Foreign Policy of Pakistan.

 

[War Thunder]

Well in case of a tech blackout during a war we will have no option but to resort to old school reccee methods. Reccee in the manner you said will probably bear the most fruit if conducted in the south eastern deserts with Lon range patrol akin to the LRDG used by the UK in North Africa during WW2 but the task can still be achieved by commando/light commando regiments in the deserts particularly and by the commando platooNS organic to all infantry battalions elsewhere. We do not have the resources to raise a dedicated reccee regiment like the British SSR.

We always manage to miraculously conjure up some resources every time we have need for something