Need of F16 Block 60 in PAF

[Quwa]

Guys Please let's try to be realistic here. Block 52's are the way forward because they provide best bang for the buck. Try to get as much of them as possible

PAF spent money setting up the Block-52+'s infrastructure, so one way or another, it'll get more C/Ds. That said, those additional C/Ds do not necessarily need to be new, they might be used as well. It'll be good if they can get to the original plan of 55-75 F-16C/D

 

[Kabira]

Does PAF have any plans to upgrade F-16 to V version?

 

[Viper 94]

use those funds to invest in 5th gen fighters instead to being stuck with f-16s or air refuelers for the current fleet of 76 f-16s
this should get a generational jumps over IAF which is also investing in 5th gen fighter like pakfa

 

[Indus Falcon]

I think there was much more to it than that.
The army is stretched to the limit. I need not emphasize the importance of the mission in North Waziristan and RS rightly deemed the delivery of manpower at this juncture to be fraught with difficulties.
I also think we never seem to get what other people manage to get out of the Arabs. it maybe that we are poor negotiators or the arabs rate us below their own arab speaking brothers.
The Iranian/Shia nexus although worthy of discussion is not that big an issue for Pakistan .However, with all else going on the last thing that you want is to stir up another faction when you least need it.
The fear is genuine that with the ISIS Bastards stepping in to Pakistan and our DUMB Awam supporting them in the name of their distorted version of Islam we would have had another Chaos on our hands. We may have controlled the floodgates for the while but is this a long term solution. I think not!
The other concern was who will command the advancement in to Yemen. I can bet you anything they wanted an Arab leader and Pakistani Army wanted their own independent action team. This would eventually have caused problems.
The PA has a pact to defend Saudi soil. In this case Saudi soil is not threatened and this involves invading another country to reinstate an allegedly friendly establishment. Frankly we have no need to involve ourselves with that.It is not our business and not of any strategic interest to us..
For whatever it is worth Saudi government has Pasha as an adviser and I suspect some behind the scene assurance of support in case of any escalation.So I think we have done our bit quietly behind the scene. We also need to remember that the parliament voted against incursion into Yemen so the policy has been set by the elected Government and the army has only abided by the decision
In Brief you can argue it both ways. I think what is happening is all behind the scene and it is evident by how the rhetoric has suddenly died down.
Araz

Araz Sahab, Very pertinent points and I enjoyed reading your post. Honestly surprised that you are a TTA. My comments:

1) We didn't negotiate well at all. Secondly, we could have drawn the line on troops being under our command. Thirdly, we could have asked them for the hardware, whereas we would provide the troops. 5k~10k troops wouldn't effect any of our ongoing operations.

2) We have a similar agreement with the UAE

3) Pasha sahib is an advisor on health affairs in the UAE

4)Despite the Grand mess up by GOP, damage control is being done as we speak. InShaAllah there is good news coming soon.

 

[MastanKhan]

On a serious note, even just one or two squadrons of Blk61's could wreak havoc!

On the flip side, that would would mean a whole new platform for the PAF.

Had we played our cards right in Yemen, we would have gotten a lot of good hardware discounted, or free. But no we got scared by a bunch of Lungi nutcases!

Hi,

The military is extremely thickheaded---they have a tunnel vision syndrome---whatever gets into their focus---stays in target. They lack PERIPHERAL vision---they react rather than act.

Not helping in Yemen was a big blunder by Pakistan general command---. It was extremely ignorant of them to have said that if there is a threat on Harmain shareef---we will act.

What they did not understand was that the current enemy operates in a very fluid dynamics. They had a great opportunity of obliging the gulf nations---and Pak military literally fell on its face. It totally failed to grasp the importance of the what is happening in that region and what the payback would be.

Pakistan could have easily spared 50,000 troops for that operation and charged the Saudis and Emirates heftily. From 50K troops---the number would have gone upto 100k in due time----.

With professional and trained troops---there would have been less bloodshed---lesser loss of life and property in Yemen. It would have then given them a Launchpad for increasing their influence in the gulf region---getting investment and funding for the military projects---.

And all these Economic terrorists hiding in the Gulf states----they would not have had a place to hide in.

Pakistani general command was living on the promises of Iran----. For me---personally---I do not trust Iranians----. Iranians knew very well that if Pakistan joined the war in Yemen----their influence would be gone and they promised everything to Pakistan and the fools fell for it---and I am talking about the general command----because Nawaz did not have much say in it.

So---Pakistan has basically lost its influence in the gulf states----and Iran---after doing the damage---can change their minds any time they want to.

So basically---the generals fckd up. Otherwise our worries would have been over. The generals were already counting the money coming from the gas pipeline---they found out---that it is not possible yet.

 

[Beethoven]

PAF spent money setting up the Block-52+'s infrastructure, so one way or another, it'll get more C/Ds. That said, those additional C/Ds do not necessarily need to be new, they might be used as well. It'll be good if they can get to the original plan of 55-75 F-16C/D

My Point exactly but the number 55-75 seems a little exaggerated to me IMO we'll be really lucky if we can get our hands on 40 of those machines with 18 being brand new and the rest can be MLU'S

 

[Erroroverload]

Hi,

The military is extremely thickheaded---they have a tunnel vision syndrome---whatever gets into their focus---stays in target. They lack vision---they react rather than act.

Not helping in Yemen was a big blunder by Pakistan general command---. It was extremely stupid of them to have said that if there is a threat on Harmain shareef---we will act.

What they did not understand was that the current enemy operates in a very fluid dynamics. They had a great opportunity of obliging the gulf nations---and Pak military literally fell on its face. It totally failed to grasp the importance of the what is happening in that region and what the payback would be.

Pakistan could have easily spared 50,000 troops for that operation and charged the Saudis and Emirates heftily. From 50K troops---the number would have gone upto 100k in due time----.

With professional and trained troops---there would have been less bloodshed---lesser loss of life and property in Yemen. It would have then given them a Launchpad for increasing their influence in the gulf region---getting investment and funding for the military projects---.

And all these Economic terrorists hiding in the Gulf states----they would not have had a place to hide in.

Pakistani general command was living on the promises of Iran----. For me---personally---I do not trust Iranians----. Iranians knew very well that if Pakistan joined the war in Yemen----their influence would be gone and they promised everything to Pakistan and the fools fell for it---and I am talking about the general command----because Nawaz did not have much say in it.

So---Pakistan has basically lost its influence in the gulf states----and Iran---after doing the damage---can change their minds any time they want to.

So basically---the generals fckd up. Otherwise our worries would have been over. The generals were already counting the money coming from the gas pipeline---they found out---that it is not possible yet.

sorry sir but u misunderstood the whole scenario.Iran will be more beneficial 4 Pak than KSA in coming times.Worlds politics is rapidly changing, INDIA towards US, PAK towards RUSSIA, after few years USA will not have much influence in Asia. PAKISTAN,CHINA and IRAN will be linked together via CPEC and afterwords RUSSIA will also b a partner in CPEC, and RUSSIA will use GWADAR port in future.
sir, let me tell u, PAKISTAN's economy will b doubled in next few years (my estimate 7 years)INSHA'ALLAH, and KSA will not be in this game.we r just back stabbing them right know.

 

[black-hawk_101]

I think PAF only needs some 32+ Block-52 F-16s and used F-16s Bock-15s with upgrades.

 

[Caprxl]

Siding Iran or GCC is not point, to some IRAN is the one we should go with while rest see benefit in Siding GCC & not doing so fuc**d up everything. Guys you should understand that these are not carrots, they are living humans our sons we are talking about & you guys just want to push them in a war which is not even ours.
A 1000 Salute to people , for God Sake, economy n money can be generated by other means & it will be going upwards in coming years but please just think once before you guys jump into conclusion of throwing our Men in uniform into shit hole which isnt ours. For command n advisory n training I am with you guys But I respectfully disagree on sending troops.
Regards

 

[Reverse Thinker]

Which country offer Pakistan TOT induct that country fighter jets, Helis,weapons, tanks,subs,radars,satellite, laser weapons etc whether China,Russia,America or any European country so no more tension in future of upgradation cost, overhalling etc and put nation unemployed young engineers so that they should learn these toys and make country self sufficient in the defense field.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Hi,

The military is extremely thickheaded---they have a tunnel vision syndrome---whatever gets into their focus---stays in target. They lack vision---they react rather than act.

Not helping in Yemen was a big blunder by Pakistan general command---. It was extremely stupid of them to have said that if there is a threat on Harmain shareef---we will act.

What they did not understand was that the current enemy operates in a very fluid dynamics. They had a great opportunity of obliging the gulf nations---and Pak military literally fell on its face. It totally failed to grasp the importance of the what is happening in that region and what the payback would be.

Pakistan could have easily spared 50,000 troops for that operation and charged the Saudis and Emirates heftily. From 50K troops---the number would have gone upto 100k in due time----.

With professional and trained troops---there would have been less bloodshed---lesser loss of life and property in Yemen. It would have then given them a Launchpad for increasing their influence in the gulf region---getting investment and funding for the military projects---.

And all these Economic terrorists hiding in the Gulf states----they would not have had a place to hide in.

Pakistani general command was living on the promises of Iran----. For me---personally---I do not trust Iranians----. Iranians knew very well that if Pakistan joined the war in Yemen----their influence would be gone and they promised everything to Pakistan and the fools fell for it---and I am talking about the general command----because Nawaz did not have much say in it.

So---Pakistan has basically lost its influence in the gulf states----and Iran---after doing the damage---can change their minds any time they want to.

So basically---the generals fckd up. Otherwise our worries would have been over. The generals were already counting the money coming from the gas pipeline---they found out---that it is not possible yet.

Bang on the buck

 

[Side-Winder]

Not helping in Yemen was a big blunder by Pakistan general command---. It was extremely stupid of them to have said that if there is a threat on Harmain shareef---we will act.

What they did not understand was that the current enemy operates in a very fluid dynamics. They had a great opportunity of obliging the gulf nations---and Pak military literally fell on its face. It totally failed to grasp the importance of the what is happening in that region and what the payback would be.

While i agree that we could have obliged the gulf nations with our support for them I'd go on and ask What about the adverse reaction of public in the midist of the decisive stage of the 13 years long crippling War? losing public support at such critical stage could re-trigger the blade of terrorism. Not only shia but majority of Sunnis too opposed pakistan's participation in this conflict. it wasn't much related to prefering iran rather concentrating on our own mess.We hardly had anything to justify our nose-poking into it. And unfortunately, Pakistani nation poses a greater danger to Pakistan than anything else.

 

[Quwa]

My Point exactly but the number 55-75 seems a little exaggerated to me IMO we'll be really lucky if we can get our hands on 40 of those machines with 18 being brand new and the rest can be MLU'S

Depends. There are going to be quite a few surplus airframes, and the more PAF can get, the merrier (especially for cannibalization purposes). As for new, I agree, I don't think we'll see too many, but the original minimum was 55. I think there's still some scope for that.

 

[MastanKhan]

sorry sir but u misunderstood the whole scenario.Iran will be more beneficial 4 Pak than KSA in coming times.Worlds politics is rapidly changing, INDIA towards US, PAK towards RUSSIA, after few years USA will not have much influence in Asia. PAKISTAN,CHINA and IRAN will be linked together via CPEC and afterwords RUSSIA will also b a partner in CPEC, and RUSSIA will use GWADAR port in future.
sir, let me tell u, PAKISTAN's economy will b doubled in next few years (my estimate 7 years)INSHA'ALLAH, and KSA will not be in this game.we r just back stabbing them right know.

Hi,

No---Iran won't be more beneficial----plus you are leaving the Flank open----.

You can negotiate better from a position of power.

Pakistan must pick and chose who to favor---it is either Iran or the gulf states----and it must NOT BE IRAN. You can never trust Iran. And Pakistan chose Iran---what a blunder

Every nation that has been influenced by Iran---has suffered disaster--Palestine---Iraq---Syria---Yemen---Iran itself---.

By taking the position of power in Yemen---Iran would have been forced to deal with Pakistan---. It has to sell oil to china----and there are no ifs about it----. Pakistan would develop Gwadar without keeping Iran in mind---and Iran will ultimately fall in place---.

Now you are in a position of weakness AS USUAL----and now you ain't gonna get anything.

 

[araz]

Araz Sahab, Very pertinent points and I enjoyed reading your post. Honestly surprised that you are a TTA. My comments:

1) We didn't negotiate well at all. Secondly, we could have drawn the line on troops being under our command. Thirdly, we could have asked them for the hardware, whereas we would provide the troops. 5k~10k troops wouldn't effect any of our ongoing operations.

2) We have a similar agreement with the UAE

3) Pasha sahib is an advisor on health affairs in the UAE

4)Despite the Grand mess up by GOP, damage control is being done as we speak. InShaAllah there is good news coming soon.

Firstly thank you for your comments.what is a TTA and why are you surprised ? Secondly do you not find it interesting that what is glaringly obvious to an idiot like me should be obvious to every Pakistani but is not!!!
Araz