Nawaz Sharif approves lifting of ban on underage marriage

[RAMPAGE]

But it does concern us , when not-in-too-distant-future , this starts to happen . All Islamic and rational and constitutional , right ?

It's all right as long as the girl is willing and she is an adult.

In many cases women are attracted to older men.

 

[khujliwal]

Seems like it's not a big problem for Pakistan. 2012 data by ICRW. Didn't expect what I see for India though.
RankCountry Name% girls married before 18
1Niger75
2Chad68
3Central African Republic68
4Bangladesh 66
5Guinea63
6Mozambique 56
7Mali55
8Burkina Faso52
9South Sudan52
10Malawi 50
11Madagascar48
12Eritrea47
13India47
14Somalia45
15Sierra Leone44
16Zambia42
17Dominican Republic41
18Ethiopia 41
19Nepal 41
20Nicaragua41
Child Marriage Facts and Figures | ICRW

 

[Indischer]

hmmm.....
its up to u t take it or leave it.......
there are many controversial theories running here....
but I believe in my texts.....
modern science is yet not mature to shed full light on these..may in coming times..when our science too develop to that level then only we can say.....
heck....modern science has not yes proven aryan theory...let go the other stuff...
also remind u many western theories run on propaganda......so, sometime u need to have a judgement of ur own.....


lol..u think this is modern practicallity....
man. woman, lust desire , wealth, land, jealously, war, are as ancient as human it self....

O Bhai, I have no desire to shake anyone's belief in those texts. What you Believe is your personal space. But let it be known that like all religious dogmas, it won't stand the test of logic and reasoning, even from someone weak in that area, like me.

And I don't think you still understood my premise. Dig as you may, you'll never ever find a Rakshasa skeleton, let alone a 10-headed one like Ravana's. You'll never find a Giant's skeleton, even though Bhima's wife Hidiamba was one.You'll never find a Vaanara skeleton, like Hanuman or Vaali or Sugriv's. You'll never find a single Vimana, even though Raavan took Sita to Lanka in one of those. But what you will find are evidences of Human habitation in Indraprasta, Dwaraka, Lanka etc. roughly from the time that scholars say the Mahabharata and Ramayana were compiled.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Its all right ?

So when in the future , a 12 year old girl is married to a 60+ man , its all right ?

Are you all right or your mind too signed off , when you say that its Islamic ?

If she likes him then yes why not. who are we to object ???

She also need the permission of her wali/ parents and our parents always do what's best for us.

Though it'll be unusual.

 

[Indischer]

@levina I thought you might like this.
New Views of Ancient Culture Suggest Brutal Violence

 

[syedali73]

I had to quote. our constitution clearly suggest that every law will be according to Islam, It doesn't concern our neighbors in any way.

I am afraid there is nothing Islamic about under-age marriages and 2nd marriage without the consent of the first wife.

This is more of an issue of Mullah haramzadgi. As Allama Iqbal has said: Deen-e-Mulla Fi Sabeelillah Fasaad

Please see what Ghamdi has to say about these two issues:

Polygamy
It is incorrect to conclude that Islam has allowed a Muslim to keep up to four wives at one time since keeping four wives is a man’s essential physiological and psychological need. In normal circumstances, a family comes into being through wedlock between one man and one woman. A subtle reference to this is made by the Qur’an (4:1) where it alludes to the fact that when the Almighty created Adam, he made Eve for him as his only wife. Naturally, had a man physically needed more than one wife, the Almighty would have created more wives for Adam instead of just one.

Consummation of Marriage with Minor Girls
It is erroneous to conclude on the basis of the Qur’an (65:4) that Islam has allowed marriage and its consummation with minor girls. If the linguistic principles of the Arabic language are taken into consideration, this conclusion does not arise. The correct translation of the last part of this verse is:

And those women whose menstrual courses have not begun in spite of the fact that they have reached the age in which women normally have menses, their waiting period is three months as well. (65:4)

This translation stems from the fact that the Arabic particle used for negation in this verse is Lamm (لَمْ) and not Ma (مَا). The verse is generally translated by disregarding this subtle difference as:

And those women whose menstrual courses have not begun, their waiting period is three months as well. (65:4)

Consequently, it is generally construed that in this verse the ‘Iddat (waiting period) of those divorced women (girls more so) is stated who have yet to reach the age of puberty. So the proponents of this view infer that Islam allows marriage with minor girls.

Taken from - The Social Directives of Islam: Distinctive Aspects of Ghamidi’s Interpretation.
The Social Directives of Islam: Distinctive Aspects of Ghamidi's Interpretation

 

[Secur]

It's all right as long as the girl is willing and she is an adult.

In many cases a women are attracted to an older men.

Its all right ?

So when in the future , a <14 year old girl is married to a 60+ man , its all right ? Somehow , you people seem to think that marriage is child's play , really ? Somehow , its all right , that Pakistan becomes yet another country to legalize child marriages ? Somehow , its all right that immature and young boys/girls can be legally betrothed ? Where's the guarantee of consummation happening at a later date ?

Are you all right or your mind too signed off , when you saw that somehow its Islamic ?

 

[RAMPAGE]

@Secur

Do you know what was the age difference between Amma Ayesha and Muhammad PBUH when they got married ???

Our Prophet was the best Husband.

 

[Secur]

Do you know what was the age difference between Amma Ayesha and Muhammad PBUH when they got married ???

Do you know that Hazrat Ayesha wasn't really of nine years of age ?

 

[Levina]

Seems like it's not a big problem for Pakistan. 2012 data by ICRW. Didn't expect what I see for India though.
RankCountry Name% girls married before 18
1Niger75
2Chad68
3Central African Republic68
4Bangladesh 66
5Guinea63
6Mozambique 56
7Mali55
8Burkina Faso52
9South Sudan52
10Malawi 50
11Madagascar48
12Eritrea47
13India47
14Somalia45
15Sierra Leone44
16Zambia42
17Dominican Republic41
18Ethiopia 41
19Nepal 41
20Nicaragua41
Child Marriage Facts and Figures | ICRW

This is ironical!

 

[Secur]

Our Prophet was the best Husband.

Unless of course , the thing for me to understand that today's Muslims are somehow following in the footsteps of Prophet Muhammad and are the mirror image of him , I do not understand what does that have to do here .

 

[Levina]

It's all right as long as the girl is willing and she is an adult.

In many cases a women are attracted to older men.

A woman and a gal dont have the same choices.

 

[Secur]

I know.

She was 11.

Are you sure ? Or this is just another tradition contradicting the previous one ?

Of Aisha’s age at marriage
NILOFAR AHMED

IT is said that Hazrat Aisha was six years old when her nikah was performed with Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in Makkah, and nine years old when she moved in to live with her husband in Madina after Hijra.

This piece of misinformation has led to the wrong view that child marriage has the sanction of Islam. It must be noted that establishing the authenticity of hadiths, the narrators’ circumstances and the conditions at that time have to be correlated with historical facts. There is only one hadith by Hisham which suggests the age of Hazrat Aisha as being nine when she came to live with her husband.

Many authentic hadiths also show that Hisham’s narration is incongruous with several historical facts about the Prophet’s life, on which there is consensus. With reference to scholars such as Umar Ahmed Usmani, Hakim Niaz Ahmed and Habibur Rehman Kandhulvi, I would like to present some arguments in favour of the fact that Hazrat Aisha was at least 18 years old when her nikah was performed and at least 21 when she moved into the Prophet’s house to live with him.

According to Umar Ahmed Usmani, in Surah Al-Nisa, it is said that the guardian of the orphans should keep testing them, until they reach the age of marriage, before returning their property (4:6). From this scholars have concluded that the Quran sets a minimum age of marriage which is at least puberty. Since the approval of the girl has a legal standing, she cannot be a minor.

Hisham bin Urwah is the main narrator of this hadith. His life is divided into two periods: in 131A.H. the Madani period ended, and the Iraqi period started, when Hisham was 71 years old. Hafiz Zehbi has spoken about Hisham’s loss of memory in his later period. His students in Madina, Imam Malik and Imam Abu Hanifah, do not mention this hadith. Imam Malik and the people of Madina criticised him for his Iraqi hadiths.

All the narrators of this hadith are Iraqis who had heard it from Hisham. Allama Kandhulvi says that the words spoken in connection with Hazrat Aisha’s age were tissa ashara, meaning 19, when Hisham only heard (or remembered), tissa, meaning nine. Maulana Usmani thinks this change was purposely and maliciously made later.
Historian Ibn Ishaq in his Sirat Rasul Allah has given a list of the people who accepted Islam in the first year of the proclamation of Islam, in which Hazrat Aisha’s name is mentioned as Abu Bakr’s “little daughter Aisha”. If we accept Hisham’s calculations, she was not even born at that time.

Some time after the death of the Prophet’s first wife, Hazrat Khadija, Khawla suggested to the Prophet that he get married again, to a bikrun, referring to Hazrat Aisha (Musnad Ahmed). In Arabic bikrun is used for an unmarried girl who has crossed the age of puberty and is of marriageable age. The word cannot be used for a six-year-old girl.

Some scholars think that Hazrat Aisha was married off so early because in Arabia girls mature at an early age. But this was not a common custom of the Arabs at that time. According to Allama Kandhulvi, there is no such case on record either before or after Islam. Neither has this ever been promoted as a Sunnah of the Prophet. The Prophet married off his daughters Fatima at 21 and Ruquiyya at 23. Besides, Hazrat Abu Bakr, Aisha’s father, married off his eldest daughter Asma at the age of 26.

Hazrat Aisha narrates that she was present on the battlefield at the Battle of Badar (Muslim). This leads one to conclude that Hazrat Aisha moved into the Prophet’s house in 1 A.H. But a nine-year-old could not have been taken on a rough and risky military mission.

In 2 A.H, the Prophet refused to take boys of less than 15 years of age to the battle of Uhud. Would he have allowed a 10-year-old girl to accompany him? But Anas reported that he saw Aisha and Umme Sulaim carrying goatskins full of water and serving it to the soldiers (Bukhari). Umme Sulaim and Umme Ammara, the other women present at Uhud, were both strong, mature women whose duties were the lifting of the dead and injured, treating their wounds, carrying water in heavy goatskins, supplying ammunition and even taking up the sword.

Hazrat Aisha used the kunniat, the title derived from the name of a child, of Umme Abdullah after her nephew and adopted son. If she was six when her nikah was performed, she would have been only eight years his senior, hardly making him eligible for adoption. Also, a little girl could not have given up on ever having her own child and used an adopted child’s name for her kunniat.

Hazrat Aisha’s nephew Urwah once remarked that he was not surprised about her amazing knowledge of Islamic law, poetry and history because she was the wife of the Prophet and the daughter of Abu Bakr. If she was eight when her father migrated, when did she learn poetry and history from him?

There is consensus that Hazrat Aisha was 10 years younger than her elder sister Asma, whose age at the time of the hijrah, or migration to Madina, was about 28. It can be concluded that Hazrat Aisha was about 18 years old at migration. On her moving to the Prophet’s house, she was a young woman at 21. Hisham is the single narrator of the hadith whose authenticity is challenged, for it does not correlate with the many historical facts of the time.

The writer is a scholar of the Quran and writes on contemporary issues. nilofar.ahmed58@gmail.com

 

[Dem!god]

it won't stand the test of logic and reasoning, even from someone weak in that area, like me.

I think it will....u need to give a open mind thinking to it.....

you'll never ever find a Rakshasa skeleton, let alone a 10-headed one like Ravana's. You'll never find a Giant's skeleton, even though Bhima's wife Hidiamba was one.You'll never find a Vaanara skeleton, like Hanuman or Vaali or Sugriv's. You'll never find a single Vimana, even though Raavan took Sita to Lanka in one of those. But what you will find are evidences of Human habitation in Indraprasta, Dwaraka, Lanka etc. roughly from the time that scholars say the Mahabharata and Ramayana were compiled.

lol....
i said there is some exaggeration.....you need to interpret is correctly......and understand what it is said.....
the black tribal people were mostly referred as raksha in texts....they were raw meat eaters and did not practice the aryan ways..so called raksha....
hidimba was a tribal...you will never find a big headed skeleton....
ravana was very smart and cleaver and so, called 10 headed....you won't find ten head.......
again vanara were symbolic entity to a tribe and kingdom......not the vanars itself......
yes...you may not find vimana today....but there is enough ancient texts to prove it did existed.....and no one decoded it full till day..once decoded we will find out the truth......

there may be many interpretations and finding which is yet to be done......as I have said before...our science is not yet mature to prove many things......we may call us modern but we are not yet to that level......

 

[Secur]

A woman and a gal dont have the same choices.

Not something , I expect him to understand , but Good Luck anyways .