Navy Submarines Deal - Rosoboronexport Offers Amur-1650 Class Submarines

[Laughing Buddha]

2010-11-30 The Indian Navy, which is planning to acquire six non-nuclear submarines in a deal expected to be in the range of USD 10-12 billion, has been offer the fourth generation Amur-1650 class submarines by Russia. The proposal from Russia may include transfer-of-technology and localized production in Indian shipyards.

Facing mounting challenges posed by the modernization of Chinese and Pakistani naval capabilities, the Indian Navy is keen to boost up its undersea warfare capability.

Project 751, Indian Navy proposes an undersea force of 24 submarines by 2015. India already has 10 Kilo-class submarines and has set up a line to manufacture French Scorpene Submarines at Mazagoan docks in Mumbai, the first of these submarines are expected to roll out by 2012.
Rosoboronexport said it would bid for the tender by offering the Amur class submarines, which are an upgraded version of Indian Navy's Kilo-class submarines.
With the speed of 20 knots, the Amur is designed for both anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare. Its armaments include 16 tube launched torpedoes and also has a capability of launching cruise missiles.
Rosoboronexport officials were quoted by ITAR-TASS as saying that the submarine could be fitted with AIP fuel cells to considerably improve its submergence endurance and range. "The company will surely take part in the tender, and it will bid with its Amur 1650 non-nuclear submarine," an official said.
The Amur 1650 submarine has been developed by the Rubin Central Design Bureau of Naval Technology on the basis of the Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines, the most low-noise submarines in the world. The sonar signature level of the submarines of this class is several times lower in comparison with Kilo-class submarines. These submarines are equipped with radio-electronic weapons of the newer generation created on the basis of the latest achievements in the field of radio-electronics.
The submarine is equipped with 6 torpedo tubes and can take a crew of 35 people. Its depth of submergence is 300 metres, and its endurance is 45 days.
The Indian Navy has already sent requests for technical specifications to a number of countries including Russia, Germany, Spain and France who have already shown interest in the deal.

 

[sudhir007]

The Indian Navy, which is planning to acquire six non-nuclear submarines in a deal expected to be in the range of USD 10-12 billion

Is it too much amount we are getting scorpine sub around $4-5 billion. I here that garmany offer pak 3 U-214 boat for 1billion dollar with AIP. then why in our case their is too much more money.

 

[GORKHALI]

Dont you guys think 10-12billion dollar is much much for 6 non nuclear submarines ? ? We can buy almost 15 scorpene submarines more or say 18Amur submarines..

 

[Ammyy]

Is it too much amount we are getting scorpine sub around $4-5 billion. I here that garmany offer pak 3 U-214 boat for 1billion dollar with AIP. then why in our case their is too much more money.

Dont you guys think 10-12billion dollar is much much for 6 non nuclear submarines ? ? We can buy almost 15 scorpene submarines more or say 18Amur submarines..

Sir amount include life cycle cost

 

[India Rising]

i have found this article on net, i hope it will suffice the apprehensions that v have regarding huge price tag associated with submarines.

On 26 Sep 2008 a Pakistani shipyard successfully launched the first Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) submarine in the Indian Ocean, the third of its Khalid Class - Agosta 90B submarines. China meanwhile has 62 submarines of which 10 are nuclear powered.

At the same time, NDTV reports that India will be left with only 9 old submarines by 2012 as two Russian foxtrots will be decommissioned by next year. So on 6 Jul 2010 when Indian Defence Minister A. K. Antony approved a second line of submarines - Project 75(I) to be constructed in India at a cost of 50,000 crore (US$11 billion), it came as a good surprise, doubly so because it is expected to boost private sector contribution in naval projects. In this regard, Manu Sood, Editor 8ak interviewed Maj Gen (retd) Bhupinder Yadav, who heads a small group of retired ex-servicemen in a Defence and Aerospace consulting company Q-tech Synergy.

8ak: How many submarines does the Indian Navy plan to have?

Yadav: The Indian Navy proposes to have a mix of twenty-four nuclear and conventional submarines of the SSK type. With 6 Scorpene and a further 6 Project-75(I) , the remaining 12 subs will be of an indigenous design.

The Indian navy is also planning to build micro-submarines for its strategic operations. An RFP was issued in Nov 2009 to Indian shipyards including Hindustan Shipyards Limited, ABG and Pipavav shipyards, Larsen & Toubro and state-owned Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL). Indian Navy is planning to get five of these vessels at a cost of about $80 million but the inductions can be doubled later on.

8ak: Why is the price almost US$2 billion per submarine whereas strategypage reports US$350 for an AIP submarine?

Yadav: The 2005, Scorpene diesel submarines deal was signed, with an option for 6 more and extensive technology transfer agreements was reported as being in excess of $4 billion. The Proj 75(I) is a Rs 50,000 crore ($10.7 bn) project for building six vessels. These will be new submarine and not the Scorpene and will be a bigger submarine with specific features with key differentiator being a new class of missiles, having some features from the HDW Type 214, the Russian Amur class, the Italian Fincantieri S-1000 in collaboration with Rubin of Russia. The extra cost could be for the new design that will allow the incorporation of future technologies, stealth features, missiles, transfer of technology, Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) and land attack capabilities.

8ak: Why did India not go in for a nuclear submarine instead of diesel electric?

Yadav: The utility of conventional diesel-electric submarines with the introduction of AIP (air-independent propulsion) systems like the French company DCNS' MESMA (Module d'Energie Sous-Marine Autonome) and German fuel cells, even the durations they can stay underwater can be increased substantially. They also have the added advantages of being smaller and cheaper than nuclear submarines. Another reason could have been the recent accident on Submarines both in Russia and India.

(8ak note: For a detailed note on the difference between SSK and SSNs (nuclear) read here.)

8ak: Why are others like Fincanteri, BAE Systems and US manufacturers not in the deal?

Yadav: RFI was sent to French DCNS, Spanish Navantia, Russian Rubin, Italy's Fincantieri and German HDW (now owned by Thyssenkrup). Great Britain and America only build nuclear submarines and not diesel electric.

8ak: The RFI was written up a couple of years ago, so why the delay?

Yadav: RFI was issued on 27 October 2008 for six diesel-electric attack submarines to be built in Indian shipyard, public or private, with special emphasis on full transfer of technology. The subs were to be equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) boosting their operational capabilities to have high degree of stealth, land-attack capability and ability to incorporate futuristic technologies. Since this will be a new type of submarine, the details and processing of project of this size does take time. Beside 3 reasons which delayed the project.

* Some stray thought why not go for nuclear submarines, which has its own advantage and disadvantages such as vastly improved range and speeds, but are noisy hence no stealthy operations.
* Time was also wasted on Pull and Push for this crucial programme by the public or private sector. Navy pressing to opt for a shipyard other than the Mazagon Docks, which has its hands full and has been delaying most of the projects.
* Some friendly countries have been trying to put pressure that the additional submarine be procured from them. Hence the delay in RFP.

8ak: Why is the Indian private sector so enthusiastic about this announcement?

Yadav: Public sector shipyards like Mazgaon dock running at full capacity and behind schedule. L&T's excellent performance in the construction of the nuclear submarine and smaller submarine projects has given the Navy and the ministries the confidence in the private sector's ability to deliver quality vessels, systems and on deliver as per schedule. Minimum of one submarine will be built at a private shipyard and a some sub-systems will be supplied by the private sector boosting indigenous capabilities.

 

[angeldemon_007]

DRDO: Sir amount include life cycle cost

I think that we are getting these subs under TOT. So why we are paying the vendor for life cycle cost. All the maintenance will be done in our own shipyards with our own money. We have to pay more for TOT thats understood, but 11 billion $. I think we can get 6 subs in half of the price with TOT or even less.