Navy gets only 10pc of defence budget

[Defender@@]

You want to TAKE ON THIS are you MAD.

you have nothing to throw at them

Each one of india guided missle frigates carry 16 brahmos or Klub cruise missles range over 200km
Each one of india Guided misslkes frigates carry up to 48 Barak israeli SAM which has a range of 100km

The most advanced maritime planes in the world

3rd NUCLEAR SUB being negoatiated in russia 3 more arihant nucklear subs under construction

Answer to your worries

Pakistan first customer of Chinese CM-400AKG supersonic missile

 

[wiseone2]

And why do you think that 1000 km away carrier will be more effective than 200 km away airbase of Pakistan with support of 100 km away AWACs, frigrates, 200 km aways land based radar and anti air wepons?

In order to make aircraft carrier on offensive weapon it has to come near striking range of Pakistan,, Aircraft carrier is nothing but moving air base and general rule says as near the target is as easy is the attack,,, infact why to use aircraft carrier when indian land based air craft are at much shorter distance and will take even less time to attack and sea target,,,, only potential offensive object of indian a/c carrier is to block supply lines from middle east of fuel and probable military support from middle eastern country which cannot be done by a/c while staying at a safe distance it has to take the risk and thats why Pakistan is equipping its air fleet with anti carrier wepons...

Havn't you notice the most exceptional arsenal of JF17 is CM400 AKG ... a supersonic carrier killer missile .... it is similar to brahmos and will be very difficult to intercept,,, just consider one successful strike will cost indian navy two advance fighter squadrons without even fighting and the most expensive assets of Indian Navy,,, whereas Pakistan submarines could also be lethal against air craft carrier against which there are no measure defenses available to a/c carrier except of P8 (which will not available near Pakistan border ... plus bigger the asset easier to target... easily available on radars,,, awacs would be able to see it 600KM away,,,

Furthermore, shoot and scoot is not the strategy which can be used for naval blockade,,, for naval blockade you have to stay within certain range to attack,,, my bro basic strategy is defense near your borders is easy as you have support of multiple assets no the terrain and can have hidden assets whereas attack is altogether a different story,,, gone are the days of 1965 and 1971 when there were very few radars with very few capabilities,,, now both of us has awacs and we always know other's activities,,, so even for Pakistan attack like dawarka is almost impossible,,,, you have to consider the realities of today's war,,, it has more to do with air power (as objective of both countries is to destroy other and not to capture other), missiles and area denial capabilities ...

In the similar way your carrier is going to track Pakistan ships from 1,000 to 500 km away while also distinguishing between warships, merchant ships, Pakistani ships and others...

If your carrier can track sea lanes from 1000 km then we can see them from 1000 km as well... :p

My bro wake-up,,, keeping your career at safe distance will safe it from us but it will also prohibit it from any offensive role...

Furthermore, again I would like to highlight is there is no point of blocking merchant ships as most of them will stop coming to Pakistan as well as Indian ports on Pakistan side as there is full blown war and there is no point of killing them as all of them will be insured and will result in delay in trading activities (which will be already partially halt due to war) main blockade would be of two type of ships 1) oil carriers and 2) possible weapon support... both are from west i.e. from middle east region,,, it means for naval blockade you have to cross all the way Pakistani borders and come accross to the western side of Pakistan away from India... cherry on the top is Gawadar port which is further west to the Pakistan (will be used most in war time situation) .. India has to cross various air bases of Karachi .. both air force and navy maintain bases in karachi to attack these lines which will be operational in west...

My friend attacking sea lanes and complete naval blockade is not as easy as you think,, gone are the days when Bangladesh was in your arms reach... now Pakistan is altogather different story... weak spot of Pakistan navy in 1971 was absence of air arm,, now it has multiple squadron of JF17 and mirages...

An important thing to highlight is all your oil is coming from Pakistan side,,, there is no way that oil can go to india from middle east while passing in safe distance from Pakistan ... so thats why you have to bought a carrier,,, it is not for offensive purpose but for own defense,,, necessary for india,, as in war situation supply lines are most important for which oil lanes have to be kept open ....

Now tell me how will you get oil when there will be JF17 in the sky??? don't tell me that you are going to continuously escort each ship,,, coz thats not possible ...




How in the world 1000 km away aircraft carrier could detect any merchant ship ? well your MKIs are most welcome to try with brahmoos, but do remember they have to come in Pakistan's territory and no matter the range of brahmos it has to come to 100 kms to 60 kms near frigates to destroy it (range of MKI's own radar to lock on identify the target) means it has also to deal with short range missile system of our frigates (90Km range) furthermore, he will be in range of Pakistan's F16s, mirrages and JF17...

If Pakistan's defences would have been so weak as Indian media told you guys,, then India must have invaded us till now ....

the role of the aircraft carrier is to provide air cover to the ships doing the interdiction. They can operate from 1000 km away and still provide the air cover.

it is easy to interdict merchant vessels in the Northern Arabian Sea. Unless you are trading with India, Pakistan or Iran no one else is going to visit a war zone.

Pakistan's ability to attack Indian oil tankers is questionable unless you try to hit every large vessel coming out of the Persian Gulf. That might not be a wise idea because you will incur the wrath of both the West and oil rich Arab states

 

[Defender@@]

the role of the aircraft carrier is to provide air cover to the ships doing the interdiction. They can operate from 1000 km away and still provide the air cover.

To provide air cover you need an eye (eye of ship means radar). Means you have to come within a range where your radar can see Pakistan's water or merchant ships passing near Pakistan warter. If you do that then it means you are also visible to our radars and are vulnerable.

it is easy to interdict merchant vessels in the Northern Arabian Sea. Unless you are trading with India, Pakistan or Iran no one else is going to visit a war zone.

From wherever they pass they will be more close to Pakistan's air bases then Indian A/C or land based jets.

Pakistan's ability to attack Indian oil tankers is questionable unless you try to hit every large vessel coming out of the Persian Gulf. That might not be a wise idea because you will incur the wrath of both the West and oil rich Arab states

Here you go,,, well we cannot attack gulf oil ships as it will result in furious reaction from gulf and west but you can if they are going to Pakistan,,, common man grow up... if you setup a rule of engagement from international relationship prospective then they are equally applicable on India ....

From very start my point is given strategic position of Pakistan on west and close to gulf state and having Gawadar functioning naval blockade of Pakistan is not possible for India unless they got naval bases from any gulf state which is almost impossible...

So dream of naval blockade of Pakistan cannot come true ...

and similarly Pakistan cannot attack Indian navy like we did in 1965 at Dawarka ...

 

[Ahmed95]

To provide air cover you need an eye (eye of ship means radar). Means you have to come within a range where your radar can see Pakistan's water or merchant ships passing near Pakistan warter. If you do that then it means you are also visible to our radars and are vulnerable.



From wherever they pass they will be more close to Pakistan's air bases then Indian A/C or land based jets.



Here you go,,, well we cannot attack gulf oil ships as it will result in furious reaction from gulf and west but you can if they are going to Pakistan,,, common man grow up... if you setup a rule of engagement from international relationship prospective then they are equally applicable on India ....

From very start my point is given strategic position of Pakistan on west and close to gulf state and having Gawadar functioning naval blockade of Pakistan is not possible for India unless they got naval bases from any gulf state which is almost impossible...

So dream of naval blockade of Pakistan cannot come true ...

and similarly Pakistan cannot attack Indian navy like we did in 1965 at Dawarka ...

But again Pakistani claims dont count since india has an AC and brahmos. Our missiles are ineffective according to indians. Their AC is more technologically advanced then Nimitz class carriers.

 

[Jat Boy]

Otheer than sending in your PAF to fight indian navy How are you going to launch missles at a NAVY which is at least 500km away from your shores.

Your AIRFORCE will already be out gunned 3-1 in 4th generation fighters JUST HOW MANY YOU PLANNING on deploying againthe indian CBGs

*** far i know your Navy frigates are obselete and lightwight and will last 5 minutes in a sea battle

 

[It.is.all.mudi's.fault]

TO provide air cover you need an eye (eye of ship means radar). Means you have to come within a range where your radar can see Pakistan's water or merchant ships passing near Pakistan warter. If you do that then it means you are also visible to our radars and are vulnerable.

Small problem.

Ground based radars suffer from geographical limitation of inability to see over the horizon, while ship based AWACS do not.

So unless you divert some of your scarce PAF AWACS for Navy, you would not be able to see an Aircraft carrier, before it sees you.

Also ground based Radars are extraordinarily easy to destroy. Just fire a brahmos towards them, and they would go boom.

From wherever they pass they will be more close to Pakistan's air bases then Indian A/C or land based jets.

You do not understand how Naval blockades work.

Once India DECLARE a Naval blockade, no shipping company would risk supplying to Pakistan, even if India does not field any assets to enforce that blockade as Indian capabilities are proven.

Only Ships that would be sailing to Pakistan would be Pakistani merchant Navy ships.

Here you go,,, well we cannot attack gulf oil ships as it will result in furious reaction from gulf and west but you can if they are going to Pakistan,,, common man grow up... if you setup a rule of engagement from international relationship prospective then they are equally applicable on India ....

In a DECLARED blockade (which is an act of war), a country could sink any ship bound for country against which it has declared a blockade.

West would not bother interfering ,let alone send a ship, as long as India act within purview of law of sea blockade, and middle east ships would be promptly sunk while Arabs do diddly squat about it (their combined Navy is weaker than our coast guard).

And why would west be furious about sunk arab ships? If you are slow on NEWS,know this that USA/West has never supported imperial ambition of Arab countries. Theirs is a transactional relationship ,not one based on mutual brotherhood (USA-UK type). If Arabs try to commit an act of war like trying to break a blockade, they have to do it on their own, not on back of USN.

Here Law: Oxford Public International Law: Blockade

So dream of naval blockade of Pakistan cannot come true ...

and similarly Pakistan cannot attack Indian navy like we did in 1965 at Dawarka ...

There would be a blockade of Pakistan from the moment India declares it to be, and with Pakistani Navy being comparable to our coast guard, there is nothing PN could do about it.

 

[Defender@@]

Otheer than sending in your PAF to fight indian navy How are you going to launch missles at a NAVY which is at least 500km away from your shores.

Your AIRFORCE will already be out gunned 3-1 in 4th generation fighters JUST HOW MANY YOU PLANNING on deploying againthe indian CBGs

*** far i know your Navy frigates are obselete and lightwight and will last 5 minutes in a sea battle

Your information is too low... furthermore, 3-1 ratio is not applicable as you cannot concentrate all resources on one side you have enemies all around your borders and a big shore to protect ... we will be glad if you move all your assets towards Pakistan borders so that our submarines could do damage to your ports etc etc...

Whats the point of attack while navy is 500 km away? if it is 500 km away we are happy and you keep happy,,

 

[Defender@@]

Small problem.

Ground based radars suffer from geographical limitation of inability to see over the horizon, while ship based AWACS do not.

So unless you divert some of your scarce PAF AWACS for Navy, you would not be able to see an Aircraft carrier, before it sees you.

Also ground based Radars are extraordinarily easy to destroy. Just fire a brahmos towards them, and they would go boom.

Exactly, as we cannot see your carrier, your carrier cannot see us,, thats what I was saying,,, if you have to attack us you have to come close... Furthermore, PN has its own awacs PC3 Orion ...

You do not understand how Naval blockades work.

Once India DECLARE a Naval blockade, no shipping company would risk supplying to Pakistan, even if India does not field any assets to enforce that blockade as Indian capabilities are proven.

Only Ships that would be sailing to Pakistan would be Pakistani merchant Navy ships.

Go through the post I am keep on highlighting that no merchant will sail to Pakistan and even India in war situation as both has the ability to destroy maritime ships ... however, oil is the life line in case of war which supply will be ensured both by India and Pakistan,,, Pakistan oil supply lines on west away from India,,, Indian supply lines are on east towards Pakistan,,, how can you threat supply lines which are directly link to Pakistan? However, Pakistan has natural advantage of challenging supply line,,,, furthermore, you are telling that you will destroy arab oil ships travelling to Pakistan,, then from where the hell you will get your own oil? No logic just bull shit claim,,,

India is claiming to be God who can do whatever it wants as he hass AC... like Pak has no assets,,, Like Brahmos is capable of hiting anything anywhere just with a click of a button,,, realities are different ,,, there should be delivery mechanism there should be targeting mechanism there should be minmum distance to shoot,,, lot of variables...

In a DECLARED blockade (which is an act of war), a country could sink any ship bound for country against which it has declared a blockade.

West would not bother interfering ,let alone send a ship, as long as India act within purview of law of sea blockade, and middle east ships would be promptly sunk while Arabs do diddly squat about it (their combined Navy is weaker than our coast guard).

Why do you think that you can destroy any merchant ship coming to Pakistan and we can't disregarding we have natural advantage as your oil root is from Pak side...

And why would west be furious about sunk arab ships? If you are slow on NEWS,know this that USA/West has never supported imperial ambition of Arab countries. Theirs is a transactional relationship ,not one based on mutual brotherhood (USA-UK type). If Arabs try to commit an act of war like trying to break a blockade, they have to do it on their own, not on back of USN.

Ok you destroy Arab ship... good, from where will you get your own il,,, and thanks for doing that,, it will make our case more strong and assets of arabs like f15 and f16V and future f35 will become available to us if you do such stupidity...[/QUOTE]

There would be a blockade of Pakistan from the moment India declares it to be, and with Pakistani Navy being comparable to our coast guard, there is nothing PN could do about it.

I didn't know your coast guards have friagtes, submarines with AIP, multiple squadrons of supersonic fighters, dedicated naval awacs, anti submarine warfare helipcopters,,,, such wastage on maritime security ,,,, Bull shit PN is not like what your media tolds,,, PN is sizeable enough to defend its coat as our coast line is smaller we need to defend much smaller area in comparison to India which cost line are much larger hence they need larger navy,,, PN has enough capability to defend and too launch an offence when needed...

 

[wiseone2]

To provide air cover you need an eye (eye of ship means radar). Means you have to come within a range where your radar can see Pakistan's water or merchant ships passing near Pakistan warter. If you do that then it means you are also visible to our radars and are vulnerable.



From wherever they pass they will be more close to Pakistan's air bases then Indian A/C or land based jets.



Here you go,,, well we cannot attack gulf oil ships as it will result in furious reaction from gulf and west but you can if they are going to Pakistan,,, common man grow up... if you setup a rule of engagement from international relationship prospective then they are equally applicable on India ....

From very start my point is given strategic position of Pakistan on west and close to gulf state and having Gawadar functioning naval blockade of Pakistan is not possible for India unless they got naval bases from any gulf state which is almost impossible...

So dream of naval blockade of Pakistan cannot come true ...

and similarly Pakistan cannot attack Indian navy like we did in 1965 at Dawarka ...

the pakistani navy cannot protect ships bound for pakistan. the hard part for the indian navy is to identify them. once identified the india has aircraft, ships and submarines to sink them. In some cases indian choppers could land commandos to seize the ships.

 

[Defender@@]

the pakistani navy cannot protect ships bound for pakistan. the hard part for the indian navy is to identify them. once identified the india has aircraft, ships and submarines to sink them. In some cases indian choppers could land commandos to seize the ships.

I don't understand why you guys think India can do something at ease where Pakistan can't.... What makes you think if India can destroy merchant ships bound to Pakistan then Pakistan can't ? its a vice versa senario .... destroying merchant ships is very easy specially if they have to sail close to your borders...

 

[wiseone2]

I don't understand why you guys think India can do something at ease where Pakistan can't.... What makes you think if India can destroy merchant ships bound to Pakistan then Pakistan can't ? its a vice versa senario .... destroying merchant ships is very easy specially if they have to sail close to your borders...

it has to do with geography. merchant ships bound for india can sail hundreds of miles away from Pakistani coast. the only two ports within range of Pakistan are Mumbai and the one in Gujarat. Mumbai would be hard to hit if the Indian navy & air force concentrate their resources to protect it. Karachi is 300 miles from Indian coast. Gwadar is 700 miles. Both are well within the range of Indian navy and Indian air force.

 

[Defender@@]

it has to do with geography. merchant ships bound for india can sail hundreds of miles away from Pakistani coast. the only two ports within range of Pakistan are Mumbai and the one in Gujarat. Mumbai would be hard to hit if the Indian navy & air force concentrate their resources to protect it. Karachi is 300 miles from Indian coast. Gwadar is 700 miles. Both are well within the range of Indian navy and Indian air force.

It is useless to talk to you as your arguments lacks logic as well as knowledge,,, How the hell India can attack Karachi and Gawadar (unopposed) in presence of multiple squadrons of airforce at Karachi separately for PAF and PN... and we cannot attach merchant undefencded merchant ships few 100 miles away,,, If your answere is Brahmos which can be strick far away from Target then similar capcilities are available to Pakistan,,, then why the hell you think that something you can do and we can't just coz you have MKIs,,, my bro the situation in Pak India conflict is no body can harm without harming itself ....

THis is my last reply as it is useless to talk to a guy who has no knowledge and lacks knowledge ...

 

[wiseone2]

It is useless to talk to you as your arguments lacks logic as well as knowledge,,, How the hell India can attack Karachi and Gawadar (unopposed) in presence of multiple squadrons of airforce at Karachi separately for PAF and PN... and we cannot attach merchant undefencded merchant ships few 100 miles away,,, If your answere is Brahmos which can be strick far away from Target then similar capcilities are available to Pakistan,,, then why the hell you think that something you can do and we can't just coz you have MKIs,,, my bro the situation in Pak India conflict is no body can harm without harming itself ....

THis is my last reply as it is useless to talk to a guy who has no knowledge and lacks knowledge ...

You have a hard time reconciling geography and reality. You are not alone.

I never said the Indian military could attack unopposed. They will lose planes, ships and subs in the attack. It might take multiple attacks to cripple the port. Karachi has oil storage and oil terminal facilities. It is a fixed target. Once it is hit it is going to take weeks or months to repair.

Pakistan cannot attack an oil tanker unloading at Cochin or Chennai. It is out of range of your conventional weapons. Gwadar and Karachi are within range of multiple Indian weapons - ships, aircraft and submarines. Pakistani military cannot attack Indian merchant vessels 500 miles away on a consistent basis. You lack the surveillance platforms.