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NAVDEX 2023: Fincantieri offering S800 small submarine to Pakistan

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24th February 2023

81a9355865ec4f56d1d4d2415c271019.jpg


Presented at NAVDEX in Abu Dhabi, the S800 is pitched as a middle-of-the-market boat between midget submarines and larger designs.
Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri is offering its S800 small submarine to Pakistan to meet its naval requirements.

Suited for ASW, intelligence-gathering and maritime security missions, the submarine is designed to operate in shallower waters with a small crew of just 18.

The S800 represents an additional option for larger navies that need smaller assets to patrol coastal areas, relieving larger SSKs from those tasks, or for tier-two navies that lack the capability to operate larger platforms.

The S800 also presents an interesting option for navies looking to dip their toes into submarine operations without procuring large traditional boats.

The submarine has been developed with low maintenance and high automation in mind.

Fincantieri-Unveils-S800-Coastal-and-Shallow-Water-Submarine-770x410.jpg


Shephard understands the platform has been proposed to Pakistan to meet its vessel requirements.

The Italian shipbuilder is fully open to transfer of technology (ToT) agreements, which Islamabad would likely be keen on, building on the experience in partnerships with France, Turkey and China.


The submarine design has reportedly also drawn interest from countries in the Gulf region.

With shallow waters, the Fincantieri submarine could be an attractive and more affordable option for Gulf countries looking to develop their underwater capabilities.

Fincantieri is understood to have discussed the product as part of Doha and Rome’s ongoing shipbuilding relationship.

From a technical perspective, the S800 has a submerged displacement of 850t. Measuring 51m in length, according to Fincantieri, the platform has an operational depth of 250m. Powered by AIP in different configurations, the boat can reach a maximum speed of over 15kt.

Like most modern submarines, the sail has no fins and features an optronic non-penetrating mast, with two small fins placed in the higher part of the hull.

The S800 can be fitted with an external payload on the aft deck for special forces operations, such as CABI Cattaneo’s Deep Guardian shelter.

Offensive capabilities come in the form of five tubes for weapons like the Leonardo Black Shark torpedo.

The submarine is understood to share several components with Italy’s new U212NFS platform, ranging from the EW suite to the boat’s combat management system.


https://www.navalnews.com/event-new...ils-s800-coastal-and-shallow-water-submarine/



IDEX-23-Fincantieri-S800_03.jpg


The S800 has been developed to meet all main requirements for mission in the littoral environment, and at the same time provide comparable performance of conventional submarines operating in blue waters to more than 250 meters depth.

Conceived on the basis of concepts, experiences and technologies developed with the U212 and U212NFS programmes, and smaller platforms envisaged by Fincantieri in order to operate in shallow waters, the S800 Light Submarine is characterized by a compact design with an overall length of 51 meters, a pressure hull diameter of 4.80 meters and a total height (including mast) of 10 meters, alongside an automated platform control system with four ‘X’ stern rudders and forward hull-positioned hydroplanes, enabling the submarine to perform very tight maneuvers and follow the sea bottom contour.

With a surfaced (ready to dive) and submerged displacement of respectively 750 and 850 tonnes, the S800 Light Submarine is characterized by a diesel-electric with AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) propulsion system featuring a 12-cylinders turbocharged V-batt diesel engine with synchronous generator, and a permanent magnet excitation electric motor driving a propeller group with a 3 meters diameter, and two batteries banks, alongside two Fuel Cells Modules with a maximum output power of 70 kWe each.

According to Fincantieri the introduction of an AIP plant on small underwater platforms allows a ‘very high submerged endurance’ by means of conventional diesel-electric propulsion, as well as reducing to zero the indiscretion ratio; the estimated endurance is seven days of submerged patrol, while at the same time the extremely quiet operation of the Fuel Cells system guarantees keeping the acoustic signature at minimum.

A very low signature was reached by the optimization of the acoustic and non-acoustic signature to avoid ASW detection. With an operational depth of 250 meters and a maximum submerged speed of over 15 knots, the underwater endurance on batteries at 4.5 knots and AIP at the same operating speed is indicated respectively in over 200 and 700 nm, while autonomy reaches the 4,500 nm with snorkel and batteries, and overall endurance is respectively of 30 and approximately 7 days, in the latter case with AIP.

IDEX-23-Fincantieri-S800_02.jpg


With a crew of 18 among officers and crew and the capability to carry a team of eight SOF operators, the S800 is being promoted by Fincantieri with a combat system based on four multifunctional consoles (three devoted to the combat system and one to the platform control) and a sonar suite including a passive flank array sonar, a passive cylindrical array sonar, an active array, an active obstacle avoidance sonar, alongside a passive cylindrical intercept array sonar. The sensors suite also includes an attack periscope, a search optronic mast, communications and navigation radar masts, an EW suite with a RESM antenna on periscope, as well as an underwater telephone, alongside torpedo countermeasures system.

With a five swim-out pneumatic torpedo tubes, the S800 Light Submarine weapons load consists of five heavy-weight torpedoes in the launchers, and four plus one in the torpedo room, allowing a maximum inventory of nine (plus one) weapons. The latter are expected being Leonardo Black Shark Advanced (BSA) heavyweight torpedoes.

Thanks to its size and hull characteristics the S800 is the operationally most suitable strategic asset for supporting Special Forces missions, providing the capability to release and recovery two chariots in fully covert operations, according to Fincantieri.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/fincantieri-takes-a-model-of-the-s800-light-submarine-at-idex-navdex-2023


Weapon capabilities:
The submarine can launch Leonardo and Black Shark torpedoes through five tubes

- Displacement 850 tons
- Length 51 metres
- Maximum speed: 15 knots
- AIP
 
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It would be a good addition for Pakistan navy with tot transfer of technology basis
 
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24th February 2023

81a9355865ec4f56d1d4d2415c271019.jpg


Presented at NAVDEX in Abu Dhabi, the S800 is pitched as a middle-of-the-market boat between midget submarines and larger designs.
Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri is offering its S800 small submarine to Pakistan to meet its naval requirements.

Suited for ASW, intelligence-gathering and maritime security missions, the submarine is designed to operate in shallower waters with a small crew of just 18.

The S800 represents an additional option for larger navies that need smaller assets to patrol coastal areas, relieving larger SSKs from those tasks, or for tier-two navies that lack the capability to operate larger platforms.

The S800 also presents an interesting option for navies looking to dip their toes into submarine operations without procuring large traditional boats.

The submarine has been developed with low maintenance and high automation in mind.

Fincantieri-Unveils-S800-Coastal-and-Shallow-Water-Submarine-770x410.jpg


Shephard understands the platform has been proposed to Pakistan to meet its vessel requirements.

The Italian shipbuilder is fully open to transfer of technology (ToT) agreements, which Islamabad would likely be keen on, building on the experience in partnerships with France, Turkey and China.


The submarine design has reportedly also drawn interest from countries in the Gulf region.

With shallow waters, the Fincantieri submarine could be an attractive and more affordable option for Gulf countries looking to develop their underwater capabilities.

Fincantieri is understood to have discussed the product as part of Doha and Rome’s ongoing shipbuilding relationship.

From a technical perspective, the S800 has a submerged displacement of 850t. Measuring 51m in length, according to Fincantieri, the platform has an operational depth of 250m. Powered by AIP in different configurations, the boat can reach a maximum speed of over 15kt.

Like most modern submarines, the sail has no fins and features an optronic non-penetrating mast, with two small fins placed in the higher part of the hull.

The S800 can be fitted with an external payload on the aft deck for special forces operations, such as CABI Cattaneo’s Deep Guardian shelter.

Offensive capabilities come in the form of five tubes for weapons like the Leonardo Black Shark torpedo.

The submarine is understood to share several components with Italy’s new U212NFS platform, ranging from the EW suite to the boat’s combat management system.


https://www.navalnews.com/event-new...ils-s800-coastal-and-shallow-water-submarine/



IDEX-23-Fincantieri-S800_03.jpg


The S800 has been developed to meet all main requirements for mission in the littoral environment, and at the same time provide comparable performance of conventional submarines operating in blue waters to more than 250 meters depth.

Conceived on the basis of concepts, experiences and technologies developed with the U212 and U212NFS programmes, and smaller platforms envisaged by Fincantieri in order to operate in shallow waters, the S800 Light Submarine is characterized by a compact design with an overall length of 51 meters, a pressure hull diameter of 4.80 meters and a total height (including mast) of 10 meters, alongside an automated platform control system with four ‘X’ stern rudders and forward hull-positioned hydroplanes, enabling the submarine to perform very tight maneuvers and follow the sea bottom contour.

With a surfaced (ready to dive) and submerged displacement of respectively 750 and 850 tonnes, the S800 Light Submarine is characterized by a diesel-electric with AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) propulsion system featuring a 12-cylinders turbocharged V-batt diesel engine with synchronous generator, and a permanent magnet excitation electric motor driving a propeller group with a 3 meters diameter, and two batteries banks, alongside two Fuel Cells Modules with a maximum output power of 70 kWe each.

According to Fincantieri the introduction of an AIP plant on small underwater platforms allows a ‘very high submerged endurance’ by means of conventional diesel-electric propulsion, as well as reducing to zero the indiscretion ratio; the estimated endurance is seven days of submerged patrol, while at the same time the extremely quiet operation of the Fuel Cells system guarantees keeping the acoustic signature at minimum.

A very low signature was reached by the optimization of the acoustic and non-acoustic signature to avoid ASW detection. With an operational depth of 250 meters and a maximum submerged speed of over 15 knots, the underwater endurance on batteries at 4.5 knots and AIP at the same operating speed is indicated respectively in over 200 and 700 nm, while autonomy reaches the 4,500 nm with snorkel and batteries, and overall endurance is respectively of 30 and approximately 7 days, in the latter case with AIP.

IDEX-23-Fincantieri-S800_02.jpg


With a crew of 18 among officers and crew and the capability to carry a team of eight SOF operators, the S800 is being promoted by Fincantieri with a combat system based on four multifunctional consoles (three devoted to the combat system and one to the platform control) and a sonar suite including a passive flank array sonar, a passive cylindrical array sonar, an active array, an active obstacle avoidance sonar, alongside a passive cylindrical intercept array sonar. The sensors suite also includes an attack periscope, a search optronic mast, communications and navigation radar masts, an EW suite with a RESM antenna on periscope, as well as an underwater telephone, alongside torpedo countermeasures system.

With a five swim-out pneumatic torpedo tubes, the S800 Light Submarine weapons load consists of five heavy-weight torpedoes in the launchers, and four plus one in the torpedo room, allowing a maximum inventory of nine (plus one) weapons. The latter are expected being Leonardo Black Shark Advanced (BSA) heavyweight torpedoes.

Thanks to its size and hull characteristics the S800 is the operationally most suitable strategic asset for supporting Special Forces missions, providing the capability to release and recovery two chariots in fully covert operations, according to Fincantieri.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/fincantieri-takes-a-model-of-the-s800-light-submarine-at-idex-navdex-2023


Weapon capabilities:
The submarine can launch Leonardo and Black Shark torpedoes through five tubes

- Displacement 850 tons
- Length 51 metres
- Maximum speed: 15 knots
- AIP
Good we have options now. So the competition would be between STM 500 and this one. I know STM 500 is developing an AIP version of STM 500 so let see which wins.
 
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@Bilal Khan (Quwa) , this is why India is soo keenly investing in a massive SOSUS with Japanese input because that Arabian sea coastal water is excellent to mask such craft.
So much ancillary fishing activity and so on that such craft can potentially make their way really close to the deeper coastlines of the east just blending in with the shallow water noise environment
 
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@Bilal Khan (Quwa) , this is why India is soo keenly investing in a massive SOSUS with Japanese input because that Arabian sea coastal water is excellent to mask such craft.
So much ancillary fishing activity and so on that such craft can potentially make their way really close to the deeper coastlines of the east just blending in with the shallow water noise environment
Yep. OTOH, having a few of these SWATS lurk in our coastal waters would make amphibious operations against us a non-starter. Not only are the littoral waters busy (due to trade), but these are small boats with, potentially, greater focus on controlling acoustic and heat than bigger boats.

It'll be interesting to see what AIP the PN picks up. If they go for a Western SWATS, then I think they'll ask Germany for the fuel-cell AIP. In fact, fuel-cell AIPs would probably be ideal for this type of boat. Speed is not a necessity. With fuel cells, you take out a lot of the dynamic movements within the boat and, in turn, hone in on a real silent (albeit slower-moving) threat.
 
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Yep. OTOH, having a few of these SWATS lurk in our coastal waters would make amphibious operations against us a non-starter. Not only are the littoral waters busy (due to trade), but these are small boats with, potentially, greater focus on controlling acoustic and heat than bigger boats.

It'll be interesting to see what AIP the PN picks up. If they go for a Western SWATS, then I think they'll ask Germany for the fuel-cell AIP. In fact, fuel-cell AIPs would probably be ideal for this type of boat. Speed is not a necessity. With fuel cells, you take out a lot of the dynamic movements within the boat and, in turn, hone in on a real silent (albeit slower-moving) threat.
Hopefully, a by product of the change from the top is more openness from suppliers.

Any dreams of coastal landing has to first wage an interdiction campaign against the A2/AD capabilities that extend all the way into the closest eastern port breakwaters potentially.

So that marine encirclement is becoming more and more costly as the days go by.
 
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Hopefully, a by product of the change from the top is more openness from suppliers.

Any dreams of coastal landing has to first wage an interdiction campaign against the A2/AD capabilities that extend all the way into the closest eastern port breakwaters potentially.

So that marine encirclement is becoming more and more costly as the days go by.
Yep.

The PN also has a new-gen FAC project that hasn't taken off yet.

I think they decided to avoid getting an imported FAC and, instead, design their own system at NRDI. I think the 40 m patrol/gunboat (collab between NRDI, Swiftships, and KSEW) could be the starting point. So, imagine developing a 35-50 m boat using lots of composites, waterjets, AESA radar and network-enabled offboard sensors (like LRMPA), and the Harbah-NG or SMASH (subsonic or supersonic).

I also think the PN will engage the winner of the SWATS program for its original, next-gen SSP project. Can't go wrong with either STM or Fincantieri, though the latter might have stronger links with MTU and Siemens for the engine and fuel-cell AIP stacks. You combine that with Turkey's sensor and weapons suite, and you have a pretty good mix.

However, it would be ironic if the PN invests in the Fincantieri S800/1000-series platform because Fincantieri had originally designed it in collaboration with the Russians. This could be the third Russian collab-design to end up in our hands (following JF-17 and T-80UD).
 
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Yep.

The PN also has a new-gen FAC project that hasn't taken off yet.

I think they decided to avoid getting an imported FAC and, instead, design their own system at NRDI. I think the 40 m patrol/gunboat (collab between NRDI, Swiftships, and KSEW) could be the starting point. So, imagine developing a 35-50 m boat using lots of composites, waterjets, AESA radar and network-enabled offboard sensors (like LRMPA), and the Harbah-NG or SMASH (subsonic or supersonic).

I also think the PN will engage the winner of the SWATS program for its original, next-gen SSP project. Can't go wrong with either STM or Fincantieri, though the latter might have stronger links with MTU and Siemens for the engine and fuel-cell AIP stacks. You combine that with Turkey's sensor and weapons suite, and you have a pretty good mix.

However, it would be ironic if the PN invests in the Fincantieri S800/1000-series platform because Fincantieri had originally designed it in collaboration with the Russians. This could be the third Russian collab-design to end up in our hands (following JF-17 and T-80UD).
It is really paucity of budgets but the PN has done a commendable job of not bungling up their comparitively minuscule budgets when looking at how its sister services tend to squander things.
 
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It is really paucity of budgets but the PN has done a commendable job of not bungling up their comparitively minuscule budgets when looking at how its sister services tend to squander things.
Yep. The PN seems to have a greater grasp on what it can get done in Pakistan vs. what it needs to import too. For example, the main focus of the Jinnah-class frigate (JCF) is to build the main contractor OEM capability.

Basically, the PN systematically worked to remove contractors like Naval Group and TKMS out of the loop by controlling the design (via NRDI) and, in turn, speaking to input suppliers (for engines, sensors, steel, etc) directly. Sure, the Jinnah-class frigate isn't indigenous, but the PN made sure to get the exact inputs it needed and it can afford to get a platform that costs less than the Babur-class. So, they swapped out the CODAG with CODAD, pushed for more Pakistani-designed electronics (and possibly sensors), ensured compatibility with Harbah-NG and SMASH, and then put the savings towards a very good SAM (CAMM-ER).

It'd be the same with the submarine. If Fincantieri wants to put its R&D overhead for the S1000 to use, then the PN can buy into it for both the SWATS and Original SSP programs. Like the JCF, it gets some ownership of the IP and, in turn, speaks to Germany, South Korea and Turkey for the propulsion, steel, and electronics on its own terms. When you work with a partner like Fincantieri, you can also piggyback on their negotiating power to get less painful deals on the engines and steel (as they'd possibly package all that for their other orders).

Now, one big thing about the PN's approach is the rise of the NRDI as an OEM that knows what it can and cannot do in Pakistan. It's not involved in the industrial side nor pretending to be. It has a laser focus on design, integration, and sourcing. So, if given the time to develop more original designs, it could one day offer the world market frigates, corvettes, patrol boats, etc, and at lower prices thanks to our labour costs, a willingness to engage Eastern suppliers, etc.

If NRDI succeeds then the last (and biggest frontier) would be industrialization.
 
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Yep. The PN seems to have a greater grasp on what it can get done in Pakistan vs. what it needs to import too. For example, the main focus of the Jinnah-class frigate (JCF) is to build the main contractor OEM capability.

Basically, the PN systematically worked to remove contractors like Naval Group and TKMS out of the loop by controlling the design (via NRDI) and, in turn, speaking to input suppliers (for engines, sensors, steel, etc) directly. Sure, the Jinnah-class frigate isn't indigenous, but the PN made sure to get the exact inputs it needed and it can afford to get a platform that costs less than the Babur-class. So, they swapped out the CODAG with CODAD, pushed for more Pakistani-designed electronics (and possibly sensors), ensured compatibility with Harbah-NG and SMASH, and then put the savings towards a very good SAM (CAMM-ER).

It'd be the same with the submarine. If Fincantieri wants to put its R&D overhead for the S1000 to use, then the PN can buy into it for both the SWATS and Original SSP programs. Like the JCF, it gets some ownership of the IP and, in turn, speaks to Germany, South Korea and Turkey for the propulsion, steel, and electronics on its own terms. When you work with a partner like Fincantieri, you can also piggyback on their negotiating power to get less painful deals on the engines and steel (as they'd possibly package all that for their other orders).

Now, one big thing about the PN's approach is the rise of the NRDI as an OEM that knows what it can and cannot do in Pakistan. It's not involved in the industrial side nor pretending to be. It has a laser focus on design, integration, and sourcing. So, if given the time to develop more original designs, it could one day offer the world market frigates, corvettes, patrol boats, etc, and at lower prices thanks to our labour costs, a willingness to engage Eastern suppliers, etc.

If NRDI succeeds then the last (and biggest frontier) would be industrialization.
So long as they get ToT for indigenous refits it will seal the deal for most proposals. Not sure if the Germans will agree on propulsion anymore - there is a strong anti-China ally lobby being pushed there which takes Pakistan out of the buyer mix.
 
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So long as they get ToT for indigenous refits it will seal the deal for most proposals. Not sure if the Germans will agree on propulsion anymore - there is a strong anti-China ally lobby being pushed there which takes Pakistan out of the buyer mix.
I think Pakistan will gradually shift away from being an "all-weather ally" of China (which was never the case, just an overblown perception). I'm not saying there'll be animosity between China and Pakistan, but there'll be distance. We don't have the wherewithal to be a reliable Chinese ally as our political, security, and economic leaders are generally tied to the West. Moving forward, the two will overlap on the issue of India, but beyond that (i.e., dealing with the U.S), Pakistan will remain a no-show (for obvious reasons).
 
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