Naval guards: India moves to downgrade diplomatic ties with Italy

[Bang Galore]

They were briefed wrongly that Sonia is Supremo of India. And everything falls under here.

Other than the obvious dig at Sonia Gandhi, it actually increased the risk of the matter flaring out of control.

 

[janon]

With the posturing, will the Italians (realistically speaking) send back the 2 marines?

If you were in their shoes, would you?

No, they probably wouldn't send back the marines. But the likelihood is that their ambassador will reside in Tihar jail, instead of the marines who shot two people dead.

If that happens, the egg is on their face, isn't it? They cant claim any "victory" of having freed their marines, if the cost was that their ambassador got arrested for that.

While India would want to get the marines back, everybody in India knows that can't happen now. But the judiciary and the public are adamant that the people who helped the prisoners escape trial should be brought to book. If I have judged the mood of the country correctly, nobody minds escalating this, even to the extent of cutting all diplomatic, trade and other ties with Italy. It's not like we can't afford to do that - Italy is not the USA. They have a lot to loose by not having friendly relations with India, and that will only be truer and truer in future.

The funny thing of course is that the marines would probably have been free to leave India anyway, and they would eventually have been tried in Italy and not been punished at all. The supreme court were ready to listen to their contention that the SC has no jurisdiction over them. But the ambassador is in a worse position, the supreme court will not even entertain his plea that the court has no jurisdiction.

 

[mehboobkz]

That would be true but the angry reaction of the SC (expected & valid) increases the heat.

Supreme Court has exacerbated the issue few notches further...

 

[Bang Galore]

Supreme court is a court which runs according to the law even Italians can argue their case there.

Almost anyone would have told that the SC is extremely sensitive to its image being damaged (past evidence makes that clear), making a monkey of them would invite a harsh response.

 

[mehboobkz]

It was the same supreme court that forced Arundhoti roy to cool her heels in prison on the contempt issue...

 

[Srinivas]

Almost anyone would have told that the SC is extremely sensitive to its image being damaged (past evidence makes that clear), making a monkey of them would invite a harsh response.

If the judgement and court orders are not according to the Law then SC has to worry about its image, As long as the judgement stays in accordance with Law, I think SC has no reason to bother about its Image as it has done its duty.

On the contrary if a person from Indian administration takes these kind of decision then he has to worry about his image and the opinion of the world.

 

[Developereo]

My prediction: marines will remain in Italy but submit to a video trial with Indian SC.

 

[Srinivas]

My prediction: marines will remain in Italy but submit to a video trial with Indian SC.

If the proven guilt they will have to return to India to serve their sentence until then India has the guarantee of the Italian Ambassador

So it is better for Italy not to spoil its image internationally and should return its marines, Time for Mischief is over

 

[Bang Galore]

If the judgement and court orders are not according to the Law then SC has to worry about its image, As long as the judgement stays in accordance with Law, I think SC has no reason to bother about its Image as it has done its duty.

On the contrary if a person from Indian administration takes these kind of decision then he has to worry about his image and the opinion of the world.

I was talking about the SC dealing with contempt. It has made it repeatedly clear that their tolerance for willful actions demeaning the SC is very low. That is what the actions of the Italian ambassador amounts to.

If the proven guilt they will have to return to India to serve their sentence until then India has the guarantee of the Italian Ambassador

Funnily, because of a bilateral agreement, if they were proven guilty in an Indian court, they would serve the time in an Italian prison.

 

[Srinivas]

I was talking about the SC dealing with contempt. It has made it repeatedly clear that their tolerance for willful actions demeaning the SC is very low. That is what the actions of the Italian ambassador amounts to.



Funnily, because of a bilateral agreement, if they were proven guilty in an Indian court, they would serve the time in an Italian prison.

Highlighted part is indeed funny

But the agreement is not yet finalized it seems

If convicted, the two Italian marines facing murder charges in Kerala will be able to serve rest of their jail term in Italy, once the agreement between India and their country on transfer of sentenced prisoners comes into effect.

The agreement, which was notified December 17 last year by India, will come into effect two months after the exchange of diplomatic communications from both sides regarding completion of all process at their respective ends.

While Italy has already sent its diplomatic letter informing India of completing its process to implement the pact, India is yet to send the same.

"We are in the process of completing our judicial process," official spokesperson in the Ministry of External Affairs said when asked about the agreement and its impact on the Italian marines.

The pact will not apply to convicts on death row.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...-able-to-serve-jail-sentence-in-italy_1799243

 

[Developereo]

If the proven guilt

They won't be. Lawyers will reach a deal behind the scenes before the actual "trial".

 

[KRAIT]

With the posturing, will the Italians (realistically speaking) send back the 2 marines?
If you were in their shoes, would you?

Either they will send them back or Supreme Court will start case of contempt of Court against Ambassador of Italy.

Italy is in really tough position.

But if neither happens, Congress will be beaten. So, I think as an Indian, its all good.

 

[Srinivas]

They won't be. Lawyers will reach a deal behind the scenes before the actual "trial".

I don't think so after the recent responses from India Govt. and its stand on this issue.

 

[mehboobkz]

My prediction: marines will remain in Italy but submit to a video trial with Indian SC.

Absurd!
Trials can not be done with such mode wherein there got to be a testimony of witnesses and other complexities involved within. Is there any precedence as such?

And, at the end, if these two found guilty, would they be repatriated to India?
If yes, why not now?

Italy has said India has no jurisdiction first of all, so why would they submit their citizens (in this case two marines) to Indian court/judiciary system?

 

[Bang Galore]

I don't think so after the recent responses from India Govt. and its stand on this issue.

Really silly behaviour on part of the Italians. It was extremely likely that a jurisdictional argument might have been upheld by the court that would have tried it. The SC even asked the Italians to raise that question there. Instead, the two Italian military personnel are now being projected as fugitives from justice and the Italian ambassador, a bare faced liar. Beats me as to how the Italians became so idiotic. They have little or no sympathy whatsoever now.