Nato forces kill 30 ( in ) Pakistan

[Awesome]

They should. If they want to influence their government into action.

Dont get me wrong, but I dont think there will be any sort of military response from Pakistan. As long as the WoT is on in Pak's neighborhood and NATO's objectives aren't met, these sort of incidents will happen.

Of course there won't be any, the government is on American payroll. However that doesn't mean that a response is not warranted after the slaughter of Pakistanis by foreign forces.

A more honest Pakistani government would've tackled the Taliban problem in the first place.

 

[muse]

Asim

You refer to these as "Pakistanis" - how is that? Newspaper reports say these were Talib - are the newspaper reports not accurate?

AQnd newspaper reports cite ISAF as saying they pursued these from Afghan territory into Pakistan

So which is it? and will it effect the position you take? or the positon the Pakistani state may take?

 

[ice_man]

Whats wrong with what the Americans did, they killed the worst species on the planet which we call "Taliban". People need to realize that we need every possible help we can get from the Americans, its us Pakistanis who are on the receiving side with these constant bomb blasts not the Americans whom are enjoying their cozy lifestyles half a world away from all this mess. I for one support these drone strikes, the ideal scenario would be Pak Army dealing with it but if they are not than let the Americans clean this mess up.

not really agree to that....reason being our territory is our territory! if you go by that logic why won't you let hte indians clear it up? or the israelies?

see you cannot be a hypocrite! these guys are lowest scum of the planet! but once they cross the border! its our land! we should handle them not any other country!!!!

today you allow them to come in kill 30 tomorrow they will come in further & further & further! until they reach your city of karachi,islamabad or lahore! then i would ask you what your take is on this situation!

don't be a hypocrite my friend have a common view point! would you accept such attacks in your city???

 

[GUNNER]

don't be a hypocrite my friend have a common view point! would you accept such attacks in your city???

Let's be clear my friend. We must not yield to emotions.

Do you disagree that North Waziristan and parts of FATA are held by Taliban and other militants forces who are hostile not only to the alliesd forces in Afghanistan but carrying out brutal acts of terrorism inside Pakistan?

Do you disagree that these elements have given refuge to foreign elements - Arabs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Egyptians - who are not welcome by the local populations either, and who plan & finance terror stikes in not only afghanistan and other countries but inside Pakistan as well?

We endorse the military ops in the area and these elements clearly are declared enemies of the state. Let's first be clear on who the enemy is.

Now how to deal with it..the army has been saying that it is over-stretched - not just because of its ops but also due to it's commitment to flood relief ops and the lack of funds - and it cannot carry out another op in North Waziristan at this point in time. Though, they acknowledge that this is the final and ultimate solution.

Having said so, the drone strikes are being carried out to keep the pressure on these elements. With the tacit support by us.

Now, let's discuss the issue of heli strikes. I feel the problem lies in the lack of coordination on both sides. If NATO forces experience and attack on the other side and feel the need to pursue the attackers, there should be a way for coordination. Our forces should be asked whether they can take these out or if they should go ahead ! Remember time is of essence in such cases.

Obviously, it goes the other way around as well. There has been a longstanding complaint on our side that these Taliban elements stage comeback in cleared areas only becase they get refuge in Afghanistan and the time to regroup and re-equip. If you remember, some FC men got lost in Afghanistan recently when they pursued talib attackers on one border outpost.

There should be an agreement on 'hot pursuit', how much inside each other's territory one can go. More intensive and speedy sharing of ops and attacks details. Perhaps also a joint set-up for conducting air support raids.

 

[ice_man]

Let's be clear my friend. We must not yield to emotions.

Do you disagree that North Waziristan and parts of FATA are held by Taliban and other militants forces who are hostile not only to the alliesd forces in Afghanistan but carrying out brutal acts of terrorism inside Pakistan?

Do you disagree that these elements have given refuge to foreign elements - Arabs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Egyptians - who are not welcome by the local populations either, and who plan & finance terror stikes in not only afghanistan and other countries but inside Pakistan as well?

We endorse the military ops in the area and these elements clearly are declared enemies of the state. Let's first be clear on who the enemy is.

Now how to deal with it..the army has been saying that it is over-stretched - not just because of its ops but also due to it's commitment to flood relief ops and the lack of funds - and it cannot carry out another op in North Waziristan at this point in time. Though, they acknowledge that this is the final and ultimate solution.

Having said so, the drone strikes are being carried out to keep the pressure on these elements. With the tacit support by us.

Now, let's discuss the issue of heli strikes. I feel the problem lies in the lack of coordination on both sides. If NATO forces experience and attack on the other side and feel the need to pursue the attackers, there should be a way for coordination. Our forces should be asked whether they can take these out or if they should go ahead ! Remember time is of essence in such cases.

Obviously, it goes the other way around as well. There has been a longstanding complaint on our side that these Taliban elements stage comeback in cleared areas only becase they get refuge in Afghanistan and the time to regroup and re-equip. If you remember, some FC men got lost in Afghanistan recently when they pursued talib attackers on one border outpost.

There should be an agreement on 'hot pursuit', how much inside each other's territory one can go. More intensive and speedy sharing of ops and attacks details. Perhaps also a joint set-up for conducting air support raids.

very correct my friend now let's replace FATA & NWFP with punjab & specifically MURIDKAY

let's also replace USA with india? now what's your stand? the problem is pakistan has fallen to such a low level that we as pakistanis are willing to lie in bed with the USA but not with the indians...atleast not yet!

we know that "these taliban elements exist" in balochistan & in punjab! but we won't ever say let's take them out! but just because you & I are not from nwfp or from fata we find it convinent when its just 9 o clock news about borders being crossed & a couple of drones firing away and this time a couple of helipcopters crossing over!

but when it comes to border crossing in sindh or punjab we would sit up and take notice......

this is why i say we (you and i included) are hypocrites.

 

[Ahmad]

very correct my friend now let's replace FATA & NWFP with punjab & specifically MURIDKAY

let's also replace USA with india? now what's your stand? the problem is pakistan has fallen to such a low level that we as pakistanis are willing to lie in bed with the USA but not with the indians...atleast not yet!

we know that "these taliban elements exist" in balochistan & in punjab! but we won't ever say let's take them out! but just because you & I are not from nwfp or from fata we find it convinent when its just 9 o clock news about borders being crossed & a couple of drones firing away and this time a couple of helipcopters crossing over!

but when it comes to border crossing in sindh or punjab we would sit up and take notice......

this is why i say we (you and i included) are hypocrites.

i am sure militants in panjab dont control territories and launch attacks in other countries by crossing border. The militants in panjab must also be taken out, but it doesnt have to be exactly the same tactic.

 

[GUNNER]

very correct my friend now let's replace FATA & NWFP with punjab & specifically MURIDKAY

First, it's Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa now. Second, i am not talking about KPK. FATA ain't part of KPK. Third, most of the people within the agencies support the drone strikes.

Now i'll come to your question. You have mixed up two things completely unrelated to each other. Can you go into Muridkey? Sure you can. Can you go into North Waziristan? You can try..but your chances of return are very slim.

we know that "these taliban elements exist" in balochistan & in punjab! but we won't ever say let's take them out! but just because you & I are not from nwfp or from fata we find it convinent when its just 9 o clock news about borders being crossed & a couple of drones firing away and this time a couple of helipcopters crossing over!

but when it comes to border crossing in sindh or punjab we would sit up and take notice......

You missed out Sindh. And, Why not? They should be taken out too. And they are taken out whenever there is credible information. In case you are unaware of it, Most of the early Al-Qaeda arrests were made from Punjab and Sindh. Where was the Afghan Taliban leader arrested from? Karachi? But the differnce my friend is that these elements do not run independent fiefdoms in the areas which you have mentioned. They do not have training centres. These are mainly recruiting centres and sources of finance besides small cells which provide logistics to the terrorists.

I am not sure which border crossing are you refering to. Kindly, enlighten me.

let's also replace USA with india? now what's your stand? the problem is pakistan has fallen to such a low level that we as pakistanis are willing to lie in bed with the USA but not with the indians...atleast not yet!

Can we discuss the indian question in another thread? There are lost of em because i do not want to derail the thread. Though, i am against all types of terror networks regardless of their aims.

 

[GUNNER]

Here are the detail's of the third and last incident which happened on Monday. It clears that NATO helis didn't enter the Pakistani airspace on this occasion. The intrusion was only once, in the first incident, while in other two incidents the helis stayed on the other side but fired inside Pakistani border. Nevertheless, it does not absolve them from the death of five civilians.


Five Killed In NATO Shelling On Pakistan Border Town

PESHAWAR, Pakistan, Sept 28, 2010 (AFP) - Pakistani security officials said Tuesday that five people were killed and two wounded by NATO cross-border fire from Afghanistan in the third such incident in days.

They said members of the US-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in the eastern Afghan province of Khost shelled Matta Sanga town close to the border early Monday.

"Five people were killed and two injured in the shelling by NATO-led forces," a security official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

A Pakistani government official in the region said the casualties were "all civilians". A Pakistani military official, who also spoke to AFP on condition of anonymity, also confirmed the incident.

ISAF spokeswoman Major Sunset Belinsky confirmed "an engagement by ISAF helicopters against insurgent forces" on the Pakistan border Monday.

"According to current reports the helicopters did not enter Pakistan airspace. ISAF forces attempted to contact the Pakistan military prior to the engagement, but were unable to make contact," Belinsky said.

The spokeswoman did not have any information about casualties.

 

[Rank]

"Wars are never won on the defensive,... We must take the battle to the enemy and their territory"

thats what i always call for PAkistan forces... take this action... and open your speaker in front of world that enough is enough now.. otherwise enemies continue killing your people with many ways....

 

[Rank]

Nato violate Pakistan Airspace more thn 3 times in 5 days. Killing many civlians and claming as usual so called terrorist infact they even dont have any evidence.. Did you guys notice PAKISTAN MEDIA not open her mouth and even not create so called hipe about this news....


same like they are showing BS to people Govt that we are against these drone strikes no agreement with US etc @ the end picture cleared that PAkistan govt (and remmeber Pakistan govt is nothing.. no on have guts to even control 1 inch of Pakistani land without Pakistan Army Approval) so Army and Govt both are doing what US want... thats what clear picture today ... everyone discuss this matter in markets... colleges universities... offices that if this news is true that PAkistan Army send hardcore protest against NATO .. we will not trust on this news because we know what they did before... when US govt openly annouced that YOUR GOVT IS INVOLVED IN THESE DRONE STRIKE.... nothing left after that!

So did anyone notice media is actually "KEEEEEEEP QUITE" over this issue...

 

[DGMO]

Yaar, our airspace is being violated everyday by NATO / US. 'Terrorists' are killed in significant numbers everyday through drone strikes.

The govt is giving these their full support, so is the army. Their silence tells you that (apart from the token condemnation for public consumption).

To be fair, Geo and the like do report drone attacks, but it doesn't carry a shock factor like it used to.

The Govt criticised Musharraf (and still do) when these happened on an infrequent basis during his time. They'd probably blame him now even though he's not in power, despite the number of attacks under Obama (and therefore Zardari) showing an exponential rise.

 

[civfanatic]

Yaar, our airspace is being violated everyday by NATO / US. 'Terrorists' are killed in significant numbers everyday through drone strikes.

The govt is giving these their full support, so is the army. Their silence tells you that (apart from the token condemnation for public consumption).

To be fair, Geo and the like do report drone attacks, but it doesn't carry a shock factor like it used to.

The Govt criticised Musharraf (and still do) when these happened on an infrequent basis during his time. They'd probably blame him now even though he's not in power, despite the number of attacks under Obama (and therefore Zardari) showing an exponential rise.

If Govt condemns for token public consumption does this not mean that Pakistan Govt is hypocrite and last time I heard this regime calls itself democratic (deriving power from people ) then how can it not represent sentiments of Pakistani people .

 

[Musafar]

the condemnation was only for the domestic audience and did not even make any sort of resounding statement on the world stage. There's no chance the army is going to stop any further incursions by NATO - that's a given and the government protest is almost laughable.

I can only imagine that their best plan of attack is to give surface-to-air missiles to pro-pakistani locals in FATA or even the Haqqanis (non-hostile) in an attempt to ward off NATO from getting anymore ideas of thinking of flying Apache gunship in Pakistani airspace.

Anyone who gasps, please shut up. I can only see this as a logical possibility and within the realms of sending NATO a subtle message.

 

[DGMO]

last time I heard this regime calls itself democratic (deriving power from people ) then how can it not represent sentiments of Pakistani people .

Because the govt is being paid well by its foreign master(s) and doesn't give two hoots about the people.

Why else does the US want anyone other than Zardari in power? As long as someone is there to do its bidding, they will guarantee their support to the 'democratic set-up' in return.

 

[GUNNER]

Pakistan, US discuss cross-border NATO strikes: Pentagon

(AFP)

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon on Tuesday said recent cross-border strikes by NATO helicopters in Pakistan were marked by "communication breakdowns," as allied officers were not able to contact their Pakistani counterparts about the operation until afterward.

Pakistan on Monday denounced last week's helicopter air strikes as flouting the country's sovereignty, but the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in neighboring Afghanistan has insisted its troops had the right to defend themselves.

"I don't know that I'd call it a disagreement but there are certainly discussions under way between our forces and the Pakistanis about this particular incident," Pentagon spokesman Colonel Dave Lapan told reporters.

The talks were focused on "what were the communication breakdowns, what happened, what was supposed to happen," Lapan said.

Procedures call for ISAF forces to contact Pakistani officers if coalition troops must cross the border, either before or during an operation, he said.

But ISAF forces were not able to notify Pakistani officers about the helicopter strikes until after the operation, he said, without offering more details.

"I think I can say that clearly in these instances things didn't occur in the way that they're supposed to. And that's what we're trying to get to," he said.

ISAF, which is battling Taliban militants in Afghanistan, said in an earlier statement that the helicopters went after insurgents in Pakistan after an Afghan security forces' outpost in Khost province came under attack on Friday.