Nationalism as opposed to Religion?

[CometMibro]

I agree....but if your proof is "it gives me a fuzzy feeling" or "my book says the earth is round!" ....it doesn't pass as any sort of "proof".....the Greeks knew the earth was round...even had a good idea of the size...postulated atomic theory....so Apollo must be real?

I think you should read through this:

forum.bodybuilding. com/showthread.php?t=109235951

 

[Juice]

OK my bad. I thought the world population some centuries wasn't that bigger in comparison to the number of people killed in WWs.

Do you know what a "percentage" is?

 

[RuheTag]

Of course. Stuff that sounds strange to you or discriminatory to you right now will seem perfectly normal 500 years from now, because human morals are always unfortunately decided by humans. Adultery seems moral? Okay, no prob. Homosexuality seems okay? Yup, no prob. We just decide on what we want to do, unless we take our morals from an objective source.

I am not a fan of apologetics. This is how I think:

1. Can we prove the religion is from God? Yes, IF SO
2. Can we prove that the religion is the SAME as it was as revealed to the Prophet (e.g. Jesus, Moses, Elijah, Muhammad, etc, peace be upon them all) who it was given to? Yes, IF SO
3. Every single thing it says is out of the WISDOM of God. Any idea that seems strange to you will have a reason behind it that God knows and you don't.

Of course, non-Muslims generally ask questions like "why do your women wear that thing?" or "why can't you eat pig?", we can offer short explanations to these (they all have good reasons) but the most correct answer would be "because we know that God told us to do it"

Any idea that seems strange to you will have a reason behind it that God knows and you don't.

The problem is God orders a lot, but gives almost no reason for it. So we have to blindly believe it or reject. OR take it as a rejection of our brain and common sense. The same brain that helped to achieve a higher livings standard today, higher life expectancy resulting in higher population on the planet, that would never have been possible just with Gods word.

 

[Armstrong]

Do you know what a "percentage" is?

Whats up my American Sister ?

Hows life treating you ?

 

[RuheTag]

Do you know what a "percentage" is?

no, I don't. Haven't read statistics on that.

 

[Juice]

I think you should read through this:

forum.bodybuilding. com/showthread.php?t=109235951

Not quite sure what that has to do with anything. Or were you referring to the old thread about push-ups? (didn't read the whole thread....is the relevant material further down?)

 

[CometMibro]

I agree....same for Islam. Or any religion. (unless you got proof that doesn't involve the religious double-speak you find in ALL of them). PS....Islam is a break-away Christian denomination that took on a life of its own....same as Christianity was a break-away Jewish sect. The fact that Jesus is in the Koran kinda proves it. (and there are PLENTY of Christian sects that don't think Jesus was divine etc.....and that like to mix old Judaism in...like no pork...ritual bathing etc)

Not true for Islam. Just very briefly and off the top of my head:

Okay, in Islamic terminology: religious text consists of 2 factors- "matn" and "isnad". "Matn" is the text; for example, "The book of Isiah". The "isnad" is the chain of narration: Who told who (who was told by who(who was told by who(who was told by who))) etc. The isnad is absolutely crucial because this way you verify that the author of a religious text actually LEARNED from the Prophet, and is not just making stuff as he goes along or is just plain lying.


A hadîth (pl. ahâdîth) is composed of two parts: the matn (text) and the isnad (chain of reporters). A text may seem to be logical and reasonable but it needs an authentic isnad with reliable reporters to be acceptable; cAbdullah b. al-Mubârak (d. 181 AH), one of the illustrious teachers of Imâm al-Bukhârî, said, "The isnad is part of the religion: had it not been for the isnad, whoever wished to would have said whatever he liked."[1]


This is what makes the Qur'an different. Even non-Muslim scholars do not disagree that the Qur'an is a reliable text.

To read about bible authenticity:

islamic-awareness. org/Bible/Text/BibleTex.html

 

[Juice]

Not true for Islam. Just very briefly and off the top of my head:

Okay, in Islamic terminology: religious text consists of 2 factors- "matn" and "isnad". "Matn" is the text; for example, "The book of Isiah". The "isnad" is the chain of narration: Who told who (who was told by who(who was told by who(who was told by who))) etc. The isnad is absolutely crucial because this way you verify that the author of a religious text actually LEARNED from the Prophet, and is not just making stuff as he goes along or is just plain lying.


A hadîth (pl. ahâdîth) is composed of two parts: the matn (text) and the isnad (chain of reporters). A text may seem to be logical and reasonable but it needs an authentic isnad with reliable reporters to be acceptable; cAbdullah b. al-Mubârak (d. 181 AH), one of the illustrious teachers of Imâm al-Bukhârî, said, "The isnad is part of the religion: had it not been for the isnad, whoever wished to would have said whatever he liked."[1]


This is what makes the Qur'an different. Even non-Muslim scholars do not disagree that the Qur'an is a reliable text.

To read about bible authenticity:

islamic-awareness. org/Bible/Text/BibleTex.html

It's well known that it contradicts itself all the time.....you guys even have a method to get around it (later verses cancel out earlier etc.)

 

[CometMibro]

Not quite sure what that has to do with anything. Or were you referring to the old thread about push-ups? (didn't read the whole thread....is the relevant material further down?)

Hmm? its the debate between a muslim and an atheist, there is a whole stack of relevant material if you scroll down.

If you'd rather though, watch from 40 minutes onward (more entertaining but less proofs):

youtube. com/watch?v=Hf62zfjHVjg

 

[Azazel]

Of course. Stuff that sounds strange to you or discriminatory to you right now will seem perfectly normal 500 years from now, because human morals are always unfortunately decided by humans. Adultery seems moral? Okay, no prob. Homosexuality seems okay? Yup, no prob. We just decide on what we want to do, unless we take our morals from an objective source.

I am not a fan of apologetics. This is how I think:

1. Can we prove the religion is from God? Yes, IF SO
2. Can we prove that the religion is the SAME as it was as revealed to the Prophet (e.g. Jesus, Moses, Elijah, Muhammad, etc, peace be upon them all) who it was given to? Yes, IF SO
3. Every single thing it says is out of the WISDOM of God. Any idea that seems strange to you will have a reason behind it that God knows and you don't.

Of course, non-Muslims generally ask questions like "why do your women wear that thing?" or "why can't you eat pig?", we can offer short explanations to these (they all have good reasons) but the most correct answer would be "because we know that God told us to do it"

Concept of God itself is irrational one,Then how can you argue these prophecies and Revelations that allegedly came from God(Which BTW has absolutely no proof) are objective.Belief in Gravity is objective because it can be tested by scientific methodology.But God and all these religious mumbo jumbo cannot be tested in that manner.Its a belief,Its no different than believing in magic pixies.

 

[CometMibro]

It's well known that it contradicts itself all the time.....you guys even have a method to get around it (later verses cancel out earlier etc.)

Could you please give me an example of a contradiction?

(just one verse at a time, don't copy paste huge amounts from misleading anti-Islamic sites)

 

[Juice]

Whats up my American Sister ?

Hows life treating you ?

Lol....you azz...you know damned well I'm a guy. Life has been pretty darn sweet lately. How you doing?

 

[CometMibro]

Concept of God itself is irrational one,Then how can you argue these prophecies and Revelations that allegedly came from God(Which BTW has absolutely no proof) are objective.Belief in Gravity is objective because it can be tested by scientific methodology.But God and all these religious mumbo jumbo cannot be tested in that manner.Its a belief,Its no different than believing in magic pixies.

So do you believe that everything must be verified by science?

 

[Juice]

Could you please give me an example of a contradiction?

(just one verse at a time, don't copy paste huge amounts from misleading anti-Islamic sites)

The people of the book are your friends.....oh, wait....they aren't etc. And you know darned well about how later verses are said to cancel out earlier etc.

So do you believe that everything must be verified by science?

At least have a chance of being verifiable at some point.

 

[CometMibro]

The problem is God orders a lot, but gives almost no reason for it. So we have to blindly believe it or reject. OR take it as a rejection of our brain and common sense. The same brain that helped to achieve a higher livings standard today, higher life expectancy resulting in higher population on the planet, that would never have been possible just with Gods word.

No, the Qur'an asks you to use your sense and then believe. Blind faith is useless.

The people of the book are your friends.....oh, wait....they aren't etc.

At least have a chance of being verifiable at some point.

Source? Post the verses.