Naswarville

[RazPaK]

@Dillinger

Do you see another war between Indo-Pak ??? Do you think that the kashmir dispute can be solved through talks ????

No you moron. The hindus hate you and want your country as a part of their Akhand Bharat.

 

[RAMPAGE]

No you moron. The hindus hate you and want your country as a part of their Akhand Bharat.

chal bey i want a baniya point of veiw !!!

 

[Pboy]

@Dillinger

Do you think that the kashmir dispute can be solved through talks, if not than Do you see another war between Indo-Pak ???

Kashmir dispute will only be settled if one of Pakistan or India gives up and that is impossible to happen.

A war will send both India and Pakistan back to stone ages and India have more to lose with a war so that is also highly unlikely to happen.

 

[RazPaK]

chal bey i want a baniya point of veiw !!!

Only way to settle the issue with Indians is war.

 

[jaibi]

No worries , mate .

Sec, FB? Right now?

 

[Dillinger]

@Dillinger

Do you think that the kashmir dispute can be solved through talks, if not than Do you see another war between Indo-Pak ???

Honestly. Unless both sides understand that neither side will ever let go of any territory its not going to work. Lives will be lost, people will suffer. IF both sides are concerned about the people (which trust me, despite all utterances to the contrary- neither of the two administrations have ever cared as such) then the line as it stands will get signed on and then rendered irrelevant- let the regions (the valley and GB- dunno about AJK- lets leave the latter out for those who know better) have autonomy in terms of certain aspects (freedom-minus like the full-fiscal autonomy between Britain and Scotland). Defense and other related matters will obviously be within the ambit of the central government of both nations for their respective regions (one of the few matters in which the line will remain relevant), with Pakistan handling the defense and central funding, foreign policy of GB and India doing the same for the valley. People will move freely, families no longer separated- IF both GB and Kashmir Valley can be provided a special economic status by both nations (like Hong kong) then even better.

Dunno IF the above will ever happen. Most Indians will not agree to it, nor will most Pakistanis.
@jaibi what do you think?

 

[Secur]

Sec, FB? Right now?

Yeah , coming in .

 

[Dillinger]

@RAMPAGE your take?

 

[RAMPAGE]

@RAMPAGE your take?

yara first India has to understand that There is no State-sponsored terrorism from the Pakistani side and has to cut loose it's tie from TTP/BLA and start being serious about the Kashmir Dispute and our side has to control our kashmir supporters so the talks can continue in a mature way. The Indus Waters Treaty should be revisited and the water disputes should be settled by International Court of Justice. and after that steps should be taken ensure a free and fair Referendum under UN supervision.

 

[Dillinger]

yara first India has to understand that There is no State-sponsored terrorism from the Pakistani side and has to cut loose it's tie from TTP/BLA and start being serious about the Kashmir Dispute and our side has to control our kashmir supporters so the talks can continue in a mature way. The Indus Waters Treaty should be revisited and the water disputes should be settled by International Court of Justice. and after that steps should be taken ensure a free and fair Referendum under UN supervision.

Ahemm. LeT meri jaan mars se toh nahi aye the. This year itself West Point's study shows that LeT is composed primarily of Punjabis and up and running (http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Fighters-of-LeT_Final.pdf). So we can't take your word for it. The UN resolution is defunct, has been defunct since the day Pakistan refused to remove its troops- primary condition of referendum. But then as far as proxies are concerned its not just don't support proxies BUT DO NOT allow your territory to be used by proxies even if you don't support them- the latter is just as important. Otherwise we would be better served talking to said proxies than the state of Pakistan if the said state cannot enforce any control on the proxies anyway.

But as I said- its up to what the people think and decide and then the governments.

 

[jaibi]

Honestly. Unless both sides understand that neither side will ever let go of any territory its not going to work. Lives will be lost, people will suffer. IF both sides are concerned about the people (which trust me, despite all utterances to the contrary- neither of the two administrations have ever cared as such) then the line as it stands will get signed on and then rendered irrelevant- let the regions (the valley and GB- dunno about AJK- lets leave the latter out for those who know better) have autonomy in terms of certain aspects (freedom-minus like the full-fiscal autonomy between Britain and Scotland). Defense and other related matters will obviously be within the ambit of the central government of both nations for their respective regions (one of the few matters in which the line will remain relevant), with Pakistan handling the defense and central funding, foreign policy of GB and India doing the same for the valley. People will move freely, families no longer separated- IF both GB and Kashmir Valley can be provided a special economic status by both nations (like Hong kong) then even better.

Dunno IF the above will ever happen. Most Indians will not agree to it, nor will most Pakistanis.
@jaibi what do you think?

I think that is a great notion but there is a certain advantage to maintain the status quo for both nations.

Firstly, Pakistan, has centres of power in the establishment-military where 'honour' is more important than practical sense. Trust me, Pakistanis have not really been very practical about their Kashmir strategy, their focus on primary military solutions only proves it. Kashmir is a matter of 'honour'. Contrary to what you hear on the TV.

Secondly, India has seen Pakistan more of a challenger than a defender. Pakistan has been much more openly aggressive in diplomacy, foreign affairs and military than India. For India to project itself as a modern emerging power it needs to be able to come 'on top' of Pakistan and in my view Indian strategy has been to slowly counter Sino-Pak alliance and up the cost of being a challenger state for Pakistan, much like the USA did to USSR, making her come down. India does not want to directly challenge Pakistan because she knows Pakistanis are more passionate than practical and a collapse of civilian government in Pakistan could see a rise of Islamists taking power which is a worldwide nightmare.

So it is highly unlikely that a resolution would come to Kashmir issue.

yara first India has to understand that There is no State-sponsored terrorism from the Pakistani side and has to cut loose it's tie from TTP/BLA and start being serious about the Kashmir Dispute and our side has to control our kashmir supporters so the talks can continue in a mature way. The Indus Waters Treaty should be revisited and the water disputes should be settled by International Court of Justice. and after that steps should be taken ensure a free and fair Referendum under UN supervision.

Evidence suggests otherwise, Rampage. Pakistan has had proxies and the PML-N has open links to Salfi extremists if you are in Lahore you can visit their HQ at Chuburgi.
@Secur, not at FB?

 

[RAMPAGE]

Evidence suggests otherwise, Rampage. Pakistan has had proxies and the PML-N has open links to Salfi extremists if you are in Lahore you can visit their HQ at Chuburgi.
@Secur, not at FB?

You are talking abou JuD's Qadisiah markaz i guess. yeah we have a house close by. but trust me PML-N has nothing to do with LeT. I've been very close to those guys. perhaps so close that i can't tell you anything in here but i can assure you that they have no support from PML-N and that they can be easily controlled because they don't operate against the state or the laws !!!

 

[jaibi]

You are talking abou JuD's Qadisiah markaz i guess. yeah we have a house close by. but trust me PML-N has nothing to do with LeT. I've been very close to those guys. perhaps so close that i can't tell you anything in here but i can assure you that they have no support from PML-N and that they can be easily controlled because they don't operate against the state or the laws !!!

Here is the poison, RAMP, did you know who was the political agent of Zia who was brokering a power deal b/w the 8 warlords who fought the Soviets? Our present PM. The PML-N has connections to the Salfi extremeists, that's documented. The same thinking that goes into these are good militants and these are bad militants is present here. Look how that turned out for us?

 

[RAMPAGE]

Here is the poison, RAMP, did you know who was the political agent of Zia who was brokering a power deal b/w the 8 warlords who fought the Soviets? Our present PM. The PML-N has connections to the Salfi extremeists, that's documented. The same thinking that goes into these are good militants and these are bad militants is present here. Look how that turned out for us?

i can answer your post if you can define "Salfi extremeists".

 

[jaibi]

i can answer your post if you can define "Salfi extremeists".

I would use Brezvok's definition: an extremist is a person or organisation that uses strictly defined political ideologies usually built upon ethnic, racial or cultural norms, that takes or has a potential to or advocates taking extra-legal measures against state held constitution or legislations. He further defines 'potential to' as having enough means to challenge state monopoly on violence and 'advocating' as propogation using free channels.