MythBuster #1 : CM400AKG is No Match for Brahmos !

[HariPrasad]

Dear Friends,

I have been reading, Time and again, in the recent threads we have seen that most of the Pakistani Members ( incorrrectly ) believe that the new weapon of JF17 , the CM400AKG a Standoff Missile , Dubbed as Carrier Killer can be a counterbalance for Indian Brahmos.

I REQUEST THE MEMBERS TO COUNTER and DISCUSS ONLY DATA and FACTS.
FACTS must be Countered with FACTS.

Its NOT. This Thread is Dedicated for Healthy Info and Discussion over Busting the same Myth and Prove that CM400 is merely an Air KLaunched BM with Much Inferior Qualities.

First Lets See what is CM400AKG :

The CM-400AKG is a smaller and lighter version of the YJ-12 anti-ship missile intended for use by tactical fighter aircraft such as the FC-1, J-10 and Su-30MKK/J-11. The supersonic CM-400AKG missile weighs 400 kg and has a maximum range of up to 100/250 kilometers and can fly at a top speed of Mach 4 carrying a 150/200 kg warhead. The missile is fitted with either a blast fragmentation or a penetration warhead to engage surface ships or fixed-position ground targets respectively. The missile can be fitted with an active radar seeker or an imaging infrared (IIR) seeker. The propulsion system uses a solid fuel rocket motor. The CM-400AKG anti-ship missile has been ordered by the Air Forces of Pakistan and China.

The range of the CM-400AKG is estimated to be in the 180-250 km class. It is designed for use against fixed or what were described as "slow moving" targets. CASIC data indicates that after launch the CM-400AKG climbs to high altitude and terminates with a high-speed dive on the target. The PAF describes the missile's impact velocity as "hypersonic" (> Mach 5).

A list of system features appears to confirm an unusual characteristic associated with the CM-400. Unlike most high-speed cruise missiles, which fly at low altitude to avoid detection, the CM-400 uses “high [altitude] launching” to achieve “higher aircraft survivability”, according to the video.

Data Indicates That CASIC launch after the CM-400AKG climbs to high altitude and Terminates with a high-speed dive on the target. The PAF describe the missile’s impact velocity as “hypersonic”.

Sources :
China supersonic CM-400 AKG long range anti-ship and land attack missile | Exploring the World

China Develops CM-400AKG Pakistan's Hypersonic Carrier Killer Missile For JF-17 - ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

DUBAI: China details performance of 'carrier killer' missile for JF-17 - Missile ThreatMissile Threat

The Above facts can be also verfied From Janes :

So Clearly CM400 is a MUCH MUCH Inferior Missile ( as compared to Brahmos ) when we consider the points as follows :

A. CM400 Follows a BALLISTIC Trajectory

This makes the missile predicatble and since the missile can ONLY be launched from High Altitudes, its Detections is Much Much Earlier.

Brahmos is a TRUE Sea Skimming Missile and will not even appear on the radar EXCEPT for the last few seconds before impact !

B. CM400 is ONLY and ONLY for SLOW / Fixed Targets

Due to its Ballistic Trajectory, Its not possible to Target Highspeed Targets.

Brahmos, is a Weapon to Fear.. It can make Unique S manuevers and take any turn within its Range to Lock and Destroy the Target.

C. CM400 is NOT a Terrain Hugging / Sea Skimming Missile

Since CM400 is a High Altitude Air Launched Missile. Hence, its NOT a Terrain Hugging Missile as believed by many.

D. Its Speed ( Like ALL the BMs ) is at Max, 4 Mach ONLY and ONLY in the Terminal Phase, Just before it Reaches its Max Range.

Contrary to what Pakistani's Try to believe ist NOT a Mach 4+ Missile. Just like their Shaheen and Gauri this Missile is a BM used in Naval role.

Hence Just like NAsr or Shaheen its Terminal / Impact Speed is in the range of Mach 4.

Brahmos, is Supersonic THROUGHOUT its Course.

E. Is ONLY Air Launched ( With Minimum Payload for JF17 )

Its ONLY Air Launched and Paksitan DOES NOT have a Carrier. So it Limits the usage of the Missile to ONLY within a close range to the Shores.

Brahmos, OTOH , is Air , Submarine , Ship and Land Launched Missile.

F. Almost No Manuverability and Defence against SAMs

As per the Available The Worst part of CM400. It CANNOT change its Course , Thats the reason why its SPECIFIALLY mentioned to be applicable for FIXED and SLOW Targets ONLY !

Plus, This also means that the best Naval SAM, Barak 8 will have an Easy Target to deal with.

Additionally CM400 will Face Indian CMD Defences with Includes :

1. First point of defense is Patroling aircraft (F18/Rafael/MiG29K)
2. second layer of defence is Air defense ships (usually frigates) with 3 layer of security, LRSAM, MR-SAM, SR-SAM
3. 3rd layer of security is Carrier itself, the SAM on carrier
4. 4th layer of security is gatelling gun, it create a wall of bullets in front of invader...

Courtesy : @Beerbal

Conclusion : A Vintage Missile CM400AKG has NO MATCH for the Next Generation Brahmos !

It is subsonic in 90 of the flight path and very easy to shoot down like any normal cruise missile. Its range is very short.

 

[Genesis]

设计人员详解CM-400AKG超音速空地导弹性能_新浪视频
try this

Doesn't work, but another video next to it had this to say.

4-5 Mach. Sea skimming, will never be a single launch, used to overwhelm any defense. But the problem is the range, it's been reduced for export, so it is around 250km.

The Brahoms has some advantages to it, but being a co-production, it may have some limitations on export due to Russia's strong political views.

Either way, it seems both would be very difficult to stop. Brahmos and CM-400 focuses on different aspects. Neither is easy to stop it seems.

 

[Providence]

Hi,

The reason they have so many engines being worked on at the same time---they know that building a fighter aircraft engine is one of the most difficult engineering tasks.

Secondly----a lots of their designs have been stolen---as the U S states----so---my analysis is that some of the engine designs are also stolen----.

From where they were stolen from---those people knew that the design would be stolen in due time---so they intentionally sabotaged the material composition of some critical parts---and that is what happened----at first it happened at the 100 hours mark of the engine being tested---a major failure---.

Now this is just an assumption---the chinese did not reralize that it was sabotaged----they went back and remanufactured under similar composition---it failed again----/ That was a massive setback and set them back by many years---.

Then they took upon their own self and came up with the alloy----they did not have the sophisticated cutting tools either--the machinery that is----they got that as well---they overcame the composition of the critical parts as well---.

Now---pretty much they are a couple of years away from taking the big step.

The J10B / C and the J11 are flying with chinese engines now----.

The SU35 is not for the engine----but the chinese are now really concerned about the south china seas---and need something very potent to make the differenc eon a fasttrak.

Fair enough. I dont believe in racial superiority theory etc. I think any country including china can and will come up with good jet engines with good r&D. Human mind is same across countries. It depends on commitment and project management at the end of the day.

Point is chinese weapon fanboys went berserk the same way in 2002 when first J10/11 was revealed as they did when J20 was "leaked" in 2012. I don't see any difference in their decibel levels. So when people say china is a good 15 years from coming up with a reliable and polished 5th fighter, they are not wrong at all.

 

[MastanKhan]

Dear Friends,

I have been reading, Time and again, in the recent threads we have seen that most of the Pakistani Members ( incorrrectly ) believe that the new weapon of JF17 , the CM400AKG a Standoff Missile , Dubbed as Carrier Killer can be a counterbalance for Indian Brahmos.

I REQUEST THE MEMBERS TO COUNTER and DISCUSS ONLY DATA and FACTS.
FACTS must be Countered with FACTS.

Its NOT. This Thread is Dedicated for Healthy Info and Discussion over Busting the same Myth and Prove that CM400 is merely an Air KLaunched BM with Much Inferior Qualities.

First Lets See what is CM400AKG :

The CM-400AKG is a smaller and lighter version of the YJ-12 anti-ship missile intended for use by tactical fighter aircraft such as the FC-1, J-10 and Su-30MKK/J-11. The supersonic CM-400AKG missile weighs 400 kg and has a maximum range of up to 100/250 kilometers and can fly at a top speed of Mach 4 carrying a 150/200 kg warhead. The missile is fitted with either a blast fragmentation or a penetration warhead to engage surface ships or fixed-position ground targets respectively. The missile can be fitted with an active radar seeker or an imaging infrared (IIR) seeker. The propulsion system uses a solid fuel rocket motor. The CM-400AKG anti-ship missile has been ordered by the Air Forces of Pakistan and China.

The range of the CM-400AKG is estimated to be in the 180-250 km class. It is designed for use against fixed or what were described as "slow moving" targets. CASIC data indicates that after launch the CM-400AKG climbs to high altitude and terminates with a high-speed dive on the target. The PAF describes the missile's impact velocity as "hypersonic" (> Mach 5).

A list of system features appears to confirm an unusual characteristic associated with the CM-400. Unlike most high-speed cruise missiles, which fly at low altitude to avoid detection, the CM-400 uses “high [altitude] launching” to achieve “higher aircraft survivability”, according to the video.

Data Indicates That CASIC launch after the CM-400AKG climbs to high altitude and Terminates with a high-speed dive on the target. The PAF describe the missile’s impact velocity as “hypersonic”.

Sources :
China supersonic CM-400 AKG long range anti-ship and land attack missile | Exploring the World

China Develops CM-400AKG Pakistan's Hypersonic Carrier Killer Missile For JF-17 - ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

DUBAI: China details performance of 'carrier killer' missile for JF-17 - Missile ThreatMissile Threat

The Above facts can be also verfied From Janes :

So Clearly CM400 is a MUCH MUCH Inferior Missile ( as compared to Brahmos ) when we consider the points as follows :

A. CM400 Follows a BALLISTIC Trajectory

This makes the missile predicatble and since the missile can ONLY be launched from High Altitudes, its Detections is Much Much Earlier.

Brahmos is a TRUE Sea Skimming Missile and will not even appear on the radar EXCEPT for the last few seconds before impact !

B. CM400 is ONLY and ONLY for SLOW / Fixed Targets

Due to its Ballistic Trajectory, Its not possible to Target Highspeed Targets.

Brahmos, is a Weapon to Fear.. It can make Unique S manuevers and take any turn within its Range to Lock and Destroy the Target.

C. CM400 is NOT a Terrain Hugging / Sea Skimming Missile

Since CM400 is a High Altitude Air Launched Missile. Hence, its NOT a Terrain Hugging Missile as believed by many.

D. Its Speed ( Like ALL the BMs ) is at Max, 4 Mach ONLY and ONLY in the Terminal Phase, Just before it Reaches its Max Range.

Contrary to what Pakistani's Try to believe ist NOT a Mach 4+ Missile. Just like their Shaheen and Gauri this Missile is a BM used in Naval role.

Hence Just like NAsr or Shaheen its Terminal / Impact Speed is in the range of Mach 4.

Brahmos, is Supersonic THROUGHOUT its Course.

E. Is ONLY Air Launched ( With Minimum Payload for JF17 )

Its ONLY Air Launched and Paksitan DOES NOT have a Carrier. So it Limits the usage of the Missile to ONLY within a close range to the Shores.

Brahmos, OTOH , is Air , Submarine , Ship and Land Launched Missile.

F. Almost No Manuverability and Defence against SAMs

As per the Available The Worst part of CM400. It CANNOT change its Course , Thats the reason why its SPECIFIALLY mentioned to be applicable for FIXED and SLOW Targets ONLY !

Plus, This also means that the best Naval SAM, Barak 8 will have an Easy Target to deal with.

Additionally CM400 will Face Indian CMD Defences with Includes :

1. First point of defense is Patroling aircraft (F18/Rafael/MiG29K)
2. second layer of defence is Air defense ships (usually frigates) with 3 layer of security, LRSAM, MR-SAM, SR-SAM
3. 3rd layer of security is Carrier itself, the SAM on carrier
4. 4th layer of security is gatelling gun, it create a wall of bullets in front of invader...

Courtesy : @Beerbal

Conclusion : A Vintage Missile CM400AKG has NO MATCH for the Next Generation Brahmos !

Kid,

This is a useless thread that you have started to satisfy your ego-----that is why the sarcastic post.


Son---you are totally clueless how the weapons of war are used----. These weapons are not participants of a chess board match---where one's superiority would neutralize the potency of the other---.

Remember cope india---where old upgrade mig21 bis performed very well against the F15's----took them out actually---.

So---from a useless thread---now I am going to rate it as a stupid thread---.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Do we have an effective counter to CM400? IF its Barak 8 its cool.. other than Barak 8 whats more there to counter..

CIWS is fine but an effective ABM near our ships?

I do agree Brahmos having superior specs but missile speed is one thing, its effectiveness another thing..
Unless we have credible missile defence for subsonic, supersonic and hypersonic missiles of different ranges, the effectiveness of even a vintage missile gets heightened by leaps and bounds...

To me personally i am least worried about CM400... There are far more dangerous and much more intelligent missiles threatening our land and naval assets.. But effective deterrence spectrum must cover everything.. or at least to the max of possible missiles upto at least 3000km range missiles.

 

[sharma1111]

Big lol to hypersonic.
Can some one show me a real test of this missile hitting a running ship at supersonic speed.



Chinese claim a lot but eventually they rely on Su27, Su35 & S-400

 

[manishmaithani]

you guys are total blinds in patriotism . for example if barahmos was chipak missile from china-pak and CM-400 was russian-indo project you guys sure will say cm-400 is best missile ever and slow speed chipak missile is scrap and you guys filled hundreds of pages to mapping CM-400 anything not belong to your forces is garbage simply

Of course Indian mall is always better. Brahmos is one example like Kat..

 

[calmDown@all]

rafeal to f16.

how can they both be compared one
is a defence company & other is a jet

 

[Genesis]

I seriously doubt ANY chinese weapon. There is a reason why they never display info and prefers to "leak to the media" it's capabilities and let some 15 year old do the rambling on forums.

We don't release information for anything. Probably old habit. Much like any government, old habits die hard.

I have been hearing china's J-10 and J-11 being best 4+ gen fighter since like 2003.. Till now they have a handful in service. Also, why is it china have WS-10A, WS-10B, WS-15/16/17/18/19/20 projects running ? It's just when one project fails they try to run the same project under a different name

There's 500+ between the two of them, hardly a small number. US is already at 5th gen, China can't just go for one at a time, that'll take forever. It's taken a lot longer than people have envisioned, hence it looks like what it looks like. But now when it finally works right, it'll fall like dominoes.

This practice is common though, for a reference, the first 055 was actually a 051B destroyer. Today it has evolved into 055. Who can argue with that progress.

And last I heard they are still importing the saturn engines and till few months back were crying to Russians to sell them Su-35BM just to get their hands on their 117S engines for their 5th gen fighters.

Similar is the case with their carrier killer dong feng missiles .

A wild accusation. Not based on facts. Could it be true? Certainly, but the fact Russians sold it to us means our completion is all but inevitable. Unless the Russians suddenly felt charitable.

Besides, a few Su-35 could certainly help tip the scale in our favor, I would have liked more, but what can you do.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Dear Friends,

I have been reading, Time and again, in the recent threads we have seen that most of the Pakistani Members ( incorrrectly ) believe that the new weapon of JF17 , the CM400AKG a Standoff Missile , Dubbed as Carrier Killer can be a counterbalance for Indian Brahmos.

I REQUEST THE MEMBERS TO COUNTER and DISCUSS ONLY DATA and FACTS.
FACTS must be Countered with FACTS.

Its NOT. This Thread is Dedicated for Healthy Info and Discussion over Busting the same Myth and Prove that CM400 is merely an Air KLaunched BM with Much Inferior Qualities.

First Lets See what is CM400AKG :

The CM-400AKG is a smaller and lighter version of the YJ-12 anti-ship missile intended for use by tactical fighter aircraft such as the FC-1, J-10 and Su-30MKK/J-11. The supersonic CM-400AKG missile weighs 400 kg and has a maximum range of up to 100/250 kilometers and can fly at a top speed of Mach 4 carrying a 150/200 kg warhead. The missile is fitted with either a blast fragmentation or a penetration warhead to engage surface ships or fixed-position ground targets respectively. The missile can be fitted with an active radar seeker or an imaging infrared (IIR) seeker. The propulsion system uses a solid fuel rocket motor. The CM-400AKG anti-ship missile has been ordered by the Air Forces of Pakistan and China.

The range of the CM-400AKG is estimated to be in the 180-250 km class. It is designed for use against fixed or what were described as "slow moving" targets. CASIC data indicates that after launch the CM-400AKG climbs to high altitude and terminates with a high-speed dive on the target. The PAF describes the missile's impact velocity as "hypersonic" (> Mach 5).

A list of system features appears to confirm an unusual characteristic associated with the CM-400. Unlike most high-speed cruise missiles, which fly at low altitude to avoid detection, the CM-400 uses “high [altitude] launching” to achieve “higher aircraft survivability”, according to the video.

Data Indicates That CASIC launch after the CM-400AKG climbs to high altitude and Terminates with a high-speed dive on the target. The PAF describe the missile’s impact velocity as “hypersonic”.

Sources :
China supersonic CM-400 AKG long range anti-ship and land attack missile | Exploring the World

China Develops CM-400AKG Pakistan's Hypersonic Carrier Killer Missile For JF-17 - ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

DUBAI: China details performance of 'carrier killer' missile for JF-17 - Missile ThreatMissile Threat

The Above facts can be also verfied From Janes :

So Clearly CM400 is a MUCH MUCH Inferior Missile ( as compared to Brahmos ) when we consider the points as follows :

A. CM400 Follows a BALLISTIC Trajectory

This makes the missile predicatble and since the missile can ONLY be launched from High Altitudes, its Detections is Much Much Earlier.

Brahmos is a TRUE Sea Skimming Missile and will not even appear on the radar EXCEPT for the last few seconds before impact !

B. CM400 is ONLY and ONLY for SLOW / Fixed Targets

Due to its Ballistic Trajectory, Its not possible to Target Highspeed Targets.

Brahmos, is a Weapon to Fear.. It can make Unique S manuevers and take any turn within its Range to Lock and Destroy the Target.

C. CM400 is NOT a Terrain Hugging / Sea Skimming Missile

Since CM400 is a High Altitude Air Launched Missile. Hence, its NOT a Terrain Hugging Missile as believed by many.

D. Its Speed ( Like ALL the BMs ) is at Max, 4 Mach ONLY and ONLY in the Terminal Phase, Just before it Reaches its Max Range.

Contrary to what Pakistani's Try to believe ist NOT a Mach 4+ Missile. Just like their Shaheen and Gauri this Missile is a BM used in Naval role.

Hence Just like NAsr or Shaheen its Terminal / Impact Speed is in the range of Mach 4.

Brahmos, is Supersonic THROUGHOUT its Course.

E. Is ONLY Air Launched ( With Minimum Payload for JF17 )

Its ONLY Air Launched and Paksitan DOES NOT have a Carrier. So it Limits the usage of the Missile to ONLY within a close range to the Shores.

Brahmos, OTOH , is Air , Submarine , Ship and Land Launched Missile.

F. Almost No Manuverability and Defence against SAMs

As per the Available The Worst part of CM400. It CANNOT change its Course , Thats the reason why its SPECIFIALLY mentioned to be applicable for FIXED and SLOW Targets ONLY !

Plus, This also means that the best Naval SAM, Barak 8 will have an Easy Target to deal with.

Additionally CM400 will Face Indian CMD Defences with Includes :

1. First point of defense is Patroling aircraft (F18/Rafael/MiG29K)
2. second layer of defence is Air defense ships (usually frigates) with 3 layer of security, LRSAM, MR-SAM, SR-SAM
3. 3rd layer of security is Carrier itself, the SAM on carrier
4. 4th layer of security is gatelling gun, it create a wall of bullets in front of invader...

Courtesy : @Beerbal

Conclusion : A Vintage Missile CM400AKG has NO MATCH for the Next Generation Brahmos !

the cm400 was made SPECIFICALLY for aircraft carrires. whilst the brahmos is made for frigates and destroyers.
you missed that entirely. a normal subsonic asm is only enough to disable navals ships such as firgates and destroyers. whilst the brahmos is designed to sink them. this is quiet pointless as once a ship is useless its no longer a threat. hypothetically the kinetic impact of the cm400 is enough to deal with frigates and destroyers. and a warhead being either penetration or framented will blow it to pieces. but for large targets where sub-sonic and some super sonic asm's wont damage the target enough for it to deviate from its mission but hypersonic [only just at terminal speed not during cruise.] will be enough for it to deviate.

also its worth mentioning the cm400 was made just for indian carriers.
did you notice once the vikrant was floated out in 29th december 2011, the cm400 was shortly introduced at the Zhuhai airshow. the following year.

 

[MastanKhan]

Fair enough. I dont believe in racial superiority theory etc. I think any country including china can and will come up with good jet engines with good r&D. Human mind is same across countries. It depends on commitment and project management at the end of the day.

Point is chinese weapon fanboys went berserk the same way in 2002 when first J10/11 was revealed as they did when J20 was "leaked" in 2012. I don't see any difference in their decibel levels. So when people say china is a good 15 years from coming up with a reliable and polished 5th fighter, they are not wrong at all.

Hi,

And you are correct----the blown compressor blades and other parts came as a shock to the chinese---not one not two but more times than that----it made them understand how difficult it is to manufacture a fighter aircraft engine---. Everything has to perform 100% at all times giving out 110%.


See---what has happened is that after those failures---the chinese decided to do---" control the controlable "----ie---the engine is going to take its due time to be built----so work on other areas---and the other areas meant missiles and missile systems---radars---electronics and such---all things that compliment an aircraft.

So---if you dig in deeper---the chinese have come ahead leaps and bounds in BVR missile technology---off bore sight missile capability---aesa radar and other electronic paraphernalia.

In fighter aircraft engine technology---they are far behind when it comes to the life of an engine.

So---4 years ago----when the chinese AVM compared the J10 to the F16 BLK 52----they both were neck to neck----other than the electronics----where the chinese lagged behind----. But now---the J10C's with their 1000 T / R module aesa----it bvr missiles----IRST is a match for the BLK 60 in many a ways---the gap is still there---but has significantly narrowed.

Now based on that---the chinese are going to be deploying the J20 in a couple of years---if the chinese engine is not ready---it will still used the russian engine---which is supposedly less powerful but will be replaced by the chinese engine----.

So---now the J20 would be the most advanced 5th gen aircraft in the region in a couple of years---( the region does not include the U S ---even though it is under U S sphere of influence ).

 

[Imran Khan]

ye aapke yahan haandi me chalanne waalee karchee/dhuee ko missile kehte hain kya

saaly 1000 saal puraany tareeky chor do ab remote mouse tissue box jar chal jaaty hain

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Hi,

The reason they have so many engines being worked on at the same time---they know that building a fighter aircraft engine is one of the most difficult engineering tasks.

Secondly----a lots of their designs have been stolen---as the U S states----so---my analysis is that some of the engine designs are also stolen----.

From where they were stolen from---those people knew that the design would be stolen in due time---so they intentionally sabotaged the material composition of some critical parts---and that is what happened----at first it happened at the 100 hours mark of the engine being tested---a major failure---.

Now this is just an assumption---the chinese did not reralize that it was sabotaged----they went back and remanufactured under similar composition---it failed again----/ That was a massive setback and set them back by many years---.

Then they took upon their own self and came up with the alloy----they did not have the sophisticated cutting tools either--the machinery that is----they got that as well---they overcame the composition of the critical parts as well---.

Now---pretty much they are a couple of years away from taking the big step.

The J10B / C and the J11 are flying with chinese engines now----.

The SU35 is not for the engine----but the chinese are now really concerned about the south china seas---and need something very potent to make the differenc eon a fasttrak.

Good analysis!! Yellow race has this tendency to work really hard and they don't want to take chances and have to have lots of data to believe in something. If there're hundred combinations possible they're gonna try all of them before taking a decision. Little slow but ultimately they make it.

 

[DRDO KALI 10000]

, why is it china have WS-10A, WS-10B, WS-15/16/17/18/19/20 projects running ? It's just when one project fails they try to run the same project under a different name

And last I heard they are still importing the saturn engines and till few months back were crying to Russians to sell them Su-35BM just to get their hands on their 117S engines for their 5th gen fighters.

Similar is the case with their carrier killer dong feng missiles .

and Russia Demanding Double price then List Price
that to with minimum 24 jets instead there demand for 12.
Still they are negotiating ..............
HAD THEY HAVE SUCH GOOD FIGHTERS WHY THEY ARE DOING THIS ?

 

[hunter_hunted]

with whom ? internet guys whom never fire a mag of AK-47 in life and bla bla abut missiles of countries ? no thanks a shop keeper some jobless guys and few of us low profile office workers talk abut missile tech like experts here no thanks i am better troll

Hahahaha no one can put it better like you do . We talk like we internet warriors or fan boys are some focking experts in weaponry for example i have never lifted ak-47 or pistol i couldn't even if i want to , my bones are weak . Only time i had ak-47 was when i was playing counter strike. And dont know jack about missiles either.

I just go through pages and read what guys with "knowledge" of these toys are saying.