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Myth shatterd "india won 65 war?"

yeah...pretty much what we feel...no bouts of guilt pangs in that sir.
a man's gotta do what he gotta do....cuts both ways now doesn't it?
No love lost here either sunshine

ohh cuhhmon that was so original...!

Right down your ally i would say,



yeah son...we gonna get them sons of guns one of these days....
and actually it's not a freedom war.....it's a forced regime change...they are patriotic Indians...haven't you read about how the armed commies work?there have been plenty in history...the CCP of China didn't disintegrate China now did it?
Read the book and seen the film but your observation on Baloch insurgency is as good as an ash tray on a motor cycle. Do your homework son, then we may have a discussion.

my brother got almost killed fighting them phony freedom fighters ye'all seem to endorse...
my grand parents lost their rickety old masalon ki dukaan in Lahore
had bloody skirmishes for company on their way back to their hindu homeland...
my maternal grandad...was a radar operator in the IAF during both the wars...
maybe you've lost more...or have a more impressive CV when it comes to it...
but most Indians would sacrifice more to maintain the status quo...and the even the Pakistanis would....but to change it.
And the great Mughals were my ancestors, gives me a right to put in a claim for Taj Mahal, I was asking for your personal experience but what ever floats your boat, eh son. ?



what about watching it 11 times...?
what about watching it back-back-to-back with LOC and mission Kashmir?
ah cuhmoon!....cut some slack now will you?
Think i know where you are coming from.
Even the Queen thinks, world smells like fresh paint.
 
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yeah these schisms of convenience don't work like that when describing a war...
I guess there are two main parts...

part a)when you triblas initiate border mischief..
and part b)the enemy invades you...(which has nothing to do with the auxiliary war as described by part a...)
yeah right...
how very convenient.

weren't similar tactics used by india in 1971?

anyways what makes kashmir such an issue alludes the indians! your great nehru himself said that we will hold a plebiscite but he never did! he said that to momentarily stop the onslaught caused by the pakistani tribals! & the british as usual who were currently the Chief of Pakistan army refused to let pakistan army enter kashmir! however, when the indian army decided to over night annex junagadh or hyderbad they were more than willing to go on with it!

if india had kept its promise of a plebiscite 65,71,99 would have never happened! millions lost their lives due to a government lies! and yet people try to justify the deaths :coffee:
 
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Read the book and seen the film but your observation on Baloch insurgency is as good as an ash tray on a motor cycle. Do your homework son, then we may have a discussion.
whatcha talkin about willis??
what are my observations on the Baloch insurgency?
did I bring up the whole red-corridor thing?
isn't the BNP aiming at achieving an independent Balochistan from Pakistan?
now that is what you can equate to the marginal Kashmiri-separatist fassad...not the red-corridor thing...factually incorrect.

And the great Mughals were my ancestors, gives me a right to put in a claim for Taj Mahal, I was asking for your personal experience but what ever floats your boat, eh son. ?

the mughals fought with my ancestors in Rajasthan...time you and I have our duel...
p.s:- we lost our land revenue rights...do you know what it does to fat-old zamindars who don't know an iota about any profession?

Think i know where you are coming from.
Even the Queen thinks, world smells like fresh paint.

yeah the queen farts and touches herself too...thinking about the world...and maybe even other queens...
as for the world...the tricolor flag-people hating the green and white flag-people doesn't stop the sun from rising...

whatever happened to the victors of '65...
and say hi to all the mughals back there...there is a history lesson my sister needs help on...
 
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anyways what makes kashmir such an issue alludes the indians! your great nehru himself said that we will hold a plebiscite but he never did! he said that to momentarily stop the onslaught caused by the pakistani tribals! & the british as usual who were currently the Chief of Pakistan army refused to let pakistan army enter kashmir! however, when the indian army decided to over night annex junagadh or hyderbad they were more than willing to go on with it!
I am for the plebiscite...try hafeez sayyid...extradite daud...and the D-company...and we'd have the plebiscite...
if india had kept its promise of a plebiscite 65,71,99 would have never happened! millions lost their lives due to a government lies! and yet people try to justify the deaths :coffee:
had '65 not happened maybe by '71 we'd have had a plebiscite...you are as guilty of treading this path as are we...
 
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I am for the plebiscite...try hafeez sayyid...extradite daud...and the D-company...and we'd have the plebiscite...

had '65 not happened maybe by '71 we'd have had a plebiscite...you are as guilty of treading this path as are we...
your betrayal gave rise to men like hafeez saeed! men like him thrive on YOUR and your only mistakes! as for daud hell give us all baloch leaders! but then again in 1948 these were never the terms for the plebiscite! it just goes to show the intention is NEVER to hold the plebisicte
:coffee:

we did give you back kashmir singh didn't we? a man who said i swear i am not a spy only to cross the border and say hell ya i am i fooled you guys!!! :agree:
 
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whatcha talkin about willis??
what are my observations on the Baloch insurgency?
did I bring up the whole red-corridor thing?
isn't the BNP aiming at achieving an independent Balochistan from Pakistan?
now that is what you can equate to the marginal Kashmiri-separatist fassad...not the red-corridor thing...factually incorrect.
Get a life and talk like your Indian self, call center shift is up.
BNP merely demand more from the cookie jar like your Naxalite, get your chemistry in order.



the mughals fought with my ancestors in Rajasthan...time you and I have our duel...
p.s:- we lost our land revenue rights...do you know what it does to fat-old zamindars who don't know an iota about any profession?
:rofl::rofl::rofl:



yeah the queen farts and touches herself too...thinking about the world...and maybe even other queens...
as for the world...the tricolor flag-people hating the green and white flag-people doesn't stop the sun from rising...
They ruled you people for 200 years, couldn't have been all hot air............besides it's not the people but policies that flame hate, the sun from this side looks pretty clear..........little murky at your end ???
whatever happened to the victors of '65...
and say hi to all the mughals back there...there is a history lesson my sister needs help on...
They have passed down their legacy and thrive in our hearts and minds and in other's nightmares, it's a shame others had to stage fake encounters for rewards and other incentives. It so seems a dose or two of history will benefit the kid brother also.
 
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According to the United States Library of Congress Country Studies:
The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy—on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.

TIME magazine reported that India held 690 mi2 of Pakistan territory while Pakistan held 250 mi2 of Indian territory in Kashmir and Rajasthan. Additionally, Pakistan had lost almost half its armour temporarily. The same article stated that -
Severely mauled by the larger Indian armed forces, Pakistan could continue the fight only by teaming up with Red China and turning its back on the U.N.

Devin T. Hagerty wrote in his book "South Asia in world politics" –
The invading Indian forces outfought their Pakistani counterparts and halted their attack on the outskirts of Lahore, Pakistan's second-largest city. By the time United Nations intervened on September 22, Pakistan had suffered a clear defeat.

In his book "National identity and geopolitical visions", Gertjan Dijkink writes –
The superior Indian forces, however, won a decisive victory and the army could have even marched on into Pakistani territory had external pressure not forced both combatants to cease their war efforts.

An excerpt from Stanley Wolpert's India,summarizing the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965, is as follows:
In three weeks the second Indo-Pak War ended in what appeared to be a draw when the embargo placed by Washington on U.S. ammunition and replacements for both armies forced cessation of conflict before either side won a clear victory. India, however, was in a position to inflict grave damage to, if not capture, Pakistan's capital of the Punjab when the cease-fire was called, and controlled Kashmir's strategic Uri-Poonch bulge, much to Ayub's chagrin.

In his book titled The greater game: India's race with destiny and China, David Van Praagh wrote–
India won the war. It gained 1,840 square kilometers of Pakistani territory: 640 square kilometers in Azad Kashmir, Pakistan's portion of the state; 460 square kilometers of the Sailkot sector; 380 square kilometers far to the south of Sindh; and most critical, 360 square kilometers on the Lahore front. Pakistan took 540 square kilometers of Indian territory: 490 square kilometers in the Chhamb sector and 50 square kilometers around Khem Karan.

Dennis Kux's "India and the United States estranged democracies" also provides a summary of the war.
Although both sides lost heavily in men and materiel, and neither gained a decisive military advantage, India had the better of the war. New Delhi achieved its basic goal of thwarting Pakistan's attempt to seize Kashmir by force. Pakistan gained nothing from a conflict which it had instigated.

"A region in turmoil: South Asian conflicts since 1947" by Robert Johnson mentions –
India's strategic aims were modest – it aimed to deny Pakistani Army victory, although it ended up in possession of 720 square miles of Pakistani territory for the loss of just 220 of its own.

An excerpt from William M. Carpenter and David G. Wiencek's "Asian security handbook: terrorism and the new security environment" –
A brief but furious 1965 war with India began with a covert Pakistani thrust across the Kashmiri cease-fire line and ended up with the city of Lahore threatened with encirclement by Indian Army. Another UN-sponsored cease-fire left borders unchanged, but Pakistan's vulnerability had again been exposed.

English historian John Keay's "India: A History" provides a summary of the 1965 war –
The 1965 Indo-Pak war lasted barely a month. Pakistan made gains in the Rajasthan desert but its main push against India's Jammu-Srinagar road link was repulsed and Indian tanks advanced to within a sight of Lahore. Both sides claimed victory but India had most to celebrate.

Uk Heo and Shale Asher Horowitz write in their book "Conflict in Asia: Korea, China-Taiwan, and India-Pakistan"–
Again India appeared, logistically at least, to be in a superior position but neither side was able to mobilize enough strength to gain a decisive victory.

On page 100 of his book about 1965 war, it is documented by India defense minister Chavan's private secretary RD Pradhan that India was the first to accept the ceasefire in Kashmir. Why would Indian government be so anxious if India was winning?

1965 war, the inside story: Defence ... - Google Books

http://www.riazhaq.com/2009/07/demolishing-indian-war-myths-about.html
 
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On page 100 of his book about 1965 war, it is documented by India defense minister Chavan's private secretary RD Pradhan that India was the first to accept the ceasefire in Kashmir. Why would Indian government be so anxious if India was winning?

1965 war, the inside story: Defence ... - Google Books

Haq's Musings: Demolishing Indian War Myths about Pakistan

India would accept it because she was not the aggressor and her purpose of war was achieved.

India was never interested in grabbing land it was just un necessarily pushed into the war due to your covert operation in J&K.
 
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Get a life and talk like your Indian self, call center shift is up.
BNP merely demand more from the cookie jar like your Naxalite, get your chemistry in order.
now I could type something like "your madrassa ain't hip enough..."
but I think I shall pass...my Indian self is too busy laughing on some of these great Zaid hamid videos...to come to arms...

you should read this...
Pakistan celebrates, Baluchistan mourns | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
you guys love the BBC...


"get your chemistry in order."
huh?
you see being in the cyber-company of one of them mughals gets my chemistry going haywire...
They ruled you people for 200 years, couldn't have been all hot air............besides it's not the people but policies that flame hate
what has this part got to do with anything?
Are you replying to something?
let me be clear...when I wrote..
"yeah the queen farts and touches herself too...thinking about the world...and maybe even other queens..."
I couldn't have cared any less for the queen or the princes or the royal butlers...
and they ruled us people...what does your mughal handbook say?
They have passed down their legacy and thrive in our hearts and minds and in other's nightmares,

wait...I know these lines...!
it's there somewhere in Alice in wonderland...can't remember where...

it's a shame others had to stage fake encounters for rewards and other incentives.
yeah they wasted such a lot of tomato sauce in all of that...I could have used some..!
It so seems a dose or two of history will benefit the kid brother also.
the kid brother loves the mughalai dishes...!!
just had one last night...in a mughalia dhaba...
how do you prepare mughalai tawa ghost.......ummm your highness?
 
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your betrayal gave rise to men like hafeez saeed! men like him thrive on YOUR and your only mistakes!
it's one way of seeing it...
men like hafeez sayeed thrive because your govt. has been incapable of holding them by the leash...
history beckons the fact that all the armed factions in Pakistan have rebelled against the civilian authority...be it Taliban or be it the army...
the reason spike in the frequency of suicide bombings in Pakistan should testify that men like Hafeez sayeeed serve no function whatsoever in the long run...they are like the mexican drug cartels...very profitable to the govt. in the beginning...rebellious armed factions in their true colors...
as far as our discussion on cause and effect is concerned...
let us recall the chain of events...
1)our delay in settling kashmir...leads to...2)'65..leads to...3)increased animosity....leads to.... 4)men like hafeez sayeed...lead to...5)spike in terror in the valley...lead to...6)an enormous build up of IA troops in Kashmir...lead to....7)further troubles...

5)..6)..7) have been caught in a vicious cycle...
the delay in settling Kashmir...should have been understandable...border issues take forever to get resolved...like your dispute with Afghanistan has never been resolved...you appreciate the status quo there..as it is beneficial to you...the Afghans don't...you don't seem to care about it...
things that exemplify whatever you say are dynamic...and all around you...why talk of Kashmir in isolation?

as for daud hell give us all baloch leaders!
fair enough...
which baloch leader?

but then again in 1948 these were never the terms for the plebiscite! it just goes to show the intention is NEVER to hold the plebisicte
:coffee:
this is what you get for losing your patience and trying to fight it out...with an adversary of quite substantial proportions...
 
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INDIANS ARE PATHOLOGICAL LAIRS AND THE MYTH BUSTED AGAIN!


Notice that this sources is very different from other sources which only states claims and counter claims from both sides... like... PAF claimed to have shot down 200 IAF air craft in one go.. Indian officals denied this bogus claim. Last night in a air raid IAF have claimed to have destroyed 30 air crafts in Sargodha pakistan, Pak officials have denied such claim.
Air Enthusiast is a unbiased research conducted by its officials who visited both countries for information.
7ab7b7b72a5a888613a8efa5d59adb72.jpg

734e5e0e921d7afdda3e55e0a0e879e2.jpg

2aed71ba2baa21635049eb3706bb1ee3.jpg

8e1f16ba52d8f8c400d4d57ba84504b8.jpg

c3983d254b68e03b864ed6515cfc0955.jpg

43c6ab5cc2467e660b77c72d62b6dcb4.jpg

200dddcef06d867cda8fcc3c8d1bb89f.jpg
 
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INDIANS ARE PATHOLOGICAL LAIRS AND THE MYTH BUSTED AGAIN!


Notice that this sources is very different from other sources which only states claims and counter claims from both sides... like... PAF claimed to have shot down 200 IAF air craft in one go.. Indian officals denied this bogus claim. Last night in a air raid IAF have claimed to have destroyed 30 air crafts in Sargodha pakistan, Pak officials have denied such claim.
Air Enthusiast is a unbiased research conducted by its officials who visited both countries for information.
7ab7b7b72a5a888613a8efa5d59adb72.jpg

734e5e0e921d7afdda3e55e0a0e879e2.jpg

2aed71ba2baa21635049eb3706bb1ee3.jpg

8e1f16ba52d8f8c400d4d57ba84504b8.jpg

c3983d254b68e03b864ed6515cfc0955.jpg

43c6ab5cc2467e660b77c72d62b6dcb4.jpg

200dddcef06d867cda8fcc3c8d1bb89f.jpg
 
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INDIANS. ARE PATHOLOGICAL LAIRS AND THE MYTH BUSTED AGAIN!


Notice that this sources is very different from other sources which only states claims and counter claims from both sides... like... PAF claimed to have shot down 200 IAF air craft in one go.. Indian officals denied this bogus claim. Last night in a air raid IAF have claimed to have destroyed 30 air crafts in Sargodha pakistan, Pak officials have denied such claim.
Air Enthusiast is a unbiased research conducted by its officials who visited both countries for information.
7ab7b7b72a5a888613a8efa5d59adb72.jpg

734e5e0e921d7afdda3e55e0a0e879e2.jpg

2aed71ba2baa21635049eb3706bb1ee3.jpg

8e1f16ba52d8f8c400d4d57ba84504b8.jpg

c3983d254b68e03b864ed6515cfc0955.jpg

43c6ab5cc2467e660b77c72d62b6dcb4.jpg

200dddcef06d867cda8fcc3c8d1bb89f.jpg
 
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now I could type something like "your madrassa ain't hip enough..."
but I think I shall pass...my Indian self is too busy laughing on some of these great Zaid hamid videos...to come to arms...
Zaid Hamid ?, Now where did that come from, more shots in the dark.
Yea, 2007, you are doing well, let see, was this before or after the Naxalite uprising.
"get your chemistry in order."
huh?
you see being in the cyber-company of one of them mughals gets my chemistry going haywire...
In other words losing your composure, so much for Che doctrine.
what has this part got to do with anything?
Are you replying to something?
let me be clear...when I wrote..
"yeah the queen farts and touches herself too...thinking about the world...and maybe even other queens..."
I couldn't have cared any less for the queen or the princes or the royal butlers...
and they ruled us people...what does your mughal handbook say?
Even your self serving history will guide you that Mughals ruled you for even longer, look around you are still thriving on their left overs.

wait...I know these lines...!
it's there somewhere in Alice in wonderland...can't remember where...
Surely not, but then what do you expect after watching Border back to back.
yeah they wasted such a lot of tomato sauce in all of that...I could have used some..!
What with your Mughlai dishes, man you do have disgusting habits.
the kid brother loves the mughalai dishes...!!
just had one last night...in a mughalia dhaba...
how do you prepare mughalai tawa ghost.......ummm your highness?
Depends what kind of Gosht a darbari munches as it's usually Beef, In any case avoid Kashmir Chicken as it's over cooked.
 
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Zaid Hamid ?, Now where did that come from, more shots in the dark.
well this Hamid guy is the coolest stand-up comedian around...check his videos out...!

Yea, 2007, you are doing well, let see, was this before or after the Naxalite uprising.
well this Balochi separatist demand was before the time a couple of sikhs were beheaded...before Bhutto was assassinated...before the spree of suicide bombers hit Lahore...karachi and islamabad...
it seems that you are still living in the glory of the middle ages...the times they are a changin'...you see.
keep a tab.

In other words losing your composure, so much for Che doctrine.
is your wind actually jammed?
them mughalai dishes?

Even your self serving history will guide you that Mughals ruled you for even longer, look around you are still thriving on their left overs.
you took the entire mughal dynasty with you when you shifted downtown...
I am sure you must pose with the mughal bakthar-band libaas and get your portraits painted...

Surely not, but then what do you expect after watching Border back to back.
how many times did you watch border..??the way you keep mentioning it....i am guessing you are a bigger fan than I am!

What with your Mughlai dishes, man you do have disgusting habits.
no the ketchup would be required with the masaledar mughal guftagu that your highness is bringing to me...
Depends what kind of Gosht a darbari munches as it's usually Beef, In any case avoid Kashmir Chicken as it's over cooked.
Beef is good...what is a "barra" btw?
"korma" is too thin for my liking...is butter chicken also a mughalai dish or is it pujabi?
 
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