Myth of illegal BD immigrants and persecution of India's bengali muslims

[Luffy 500]

OK let us talk about this mathematics. The population of India is 1250 Million and that of Bengal is 91 Million. Average Muslim Population in Idia is 13%. Let us take this figure and extrapolate to Bengal it comes to 11 million.

If you leave aside jingoistic people the realistic illegal population claim is 5-6 million. It is not that we are wanting to kick out all bengali muslims. We just want illegals to go back to their homes.

How can u extrapolate figures of the whole country to a certain state? As if muslim pop. is uniformly distributed thoughout India. If we go by your screwed logic then muslim pop. in states like arunchal pradesh and himachal pradesh should not be just 2% of the pop. (as per Indian cencus).

Lets talk some facts shall we?

- Pop. growth rate in Assam has decreased since 1971 (the cut off date for migration to be considered legal as per GOI).

- Muslim pop. in border districts of meghalaya/ tripura is insignificant there by debunking any myth of illegal transpassing into border districs.

- Muslim pop. growth rate in muslim majority districts is lower than Low caste hindu/secluded tribe growth rate in Assam.

- Muslim pop, growth rate in Assam has been similar to the overall muslim pop. growth rate of India. Infact decadal growth rate of muslim majority dhubri district in 1991-2001 is less than overall muslim pop. growth rate of India.

- Muslim pop. in violence struck Kokrajhar has been decreasing. 27% of assam is BTAD areas giving Bodos overwhelimg political dominance. Muslims of Assam r more worried abt saving their lives than picking a fight with bodos who r above law in India.

- Many districts that are claimed to be affected by "illegals" such as Dhemaji has insignificant muslim pop. while pop. growth rate there has been higher than Assam's avg for the last couple of decades.

-In absolute terms, the number of people in the state went up by 4.51 million in a decade (45,13,744 to be precise) in the 2011 census (provisional). The population of children below the age of 6, born after the last census in 2001, is also 4.51 million (45,11,307).

-The border is 80 % barbed wire fenched where BSF routinely kills people often inside BD territory. If what u claim is true then either BSF is an incompetent terrorist force that simply kills when they feel like but allows hordes of peole to just pass by or that these "illegal BDs" are superhuman mutants that fly over the barbed wire fence.

These people have become internally displaced due to violence & natural disasters and beign illeterate and socially most discriminated they r the easiest targets of u hindtuvas trying to blame everything on muslims. Now if u want to claim that any child born to Indian bengali muslims be cosnidered illegal even then u may not come up near to the 5-6 million figure u propagate to be illegals. If u want to kick out illagals find them first prove their post-71 BD origins with authentic documents rather than comign up with fictious figuers.

 

[eastwatch]

You had respect for iajdani? Just look at his face , man. Do you have respect now? Tell me. Don't you think he looks too sick and drunk trying too hard to smile?

Anyways, its not about Hindu-Muslim. Illegal immigration to India is happening since independence. Even BD govt. knows it well that on daily basis many migrants are crossing border illegally. BD is a tiny country of 147570 sq km but with a population of whopping 161 million. So obviously people are migrating to India. How can it be possible to live in a small land when there are 161 millions officially? Actually population is way more than 161 million. Atleast 181 million. Govt. officials tend to cut some figures to get loans and aids. Its well known. So migration to India is very real.

You must be the stupidest nut who flies Bangladesh flag in this forum. Where did you get the information you have so fondly posted. Can you really cite a single example that can prove the truth of your statement? Do not fool around here with a false flag, sob Indian!!! Bloody hanuman monkey!!!

 

[Luffy 500]

Well, they supposedly hate you & wanted nothing to do with the likes of you. Isn't that your argument? That they remained in India even when partition happened...?

WHen did i say they hate us? Many muslim in India stayed back in 47 due to the fact that muslims have been relatively poor compared to Hindus and didn't want to leave whatever land/property their forefathers had in India. Doesn't mean they hate us. And even if they supposedly do hate us how does that make them illegals in India?

I care for all Indian citizens, Muslims or otherwise.

Good. Then don't beat the drums of this illegal migrant myth.

I would even argue for humane treatment even if people are Bangladeshi immigrants.

Prove they r illegals first and then do what ever u want. It has to be agreed upon by both GOB and GOI supported by historical documents & facts.

All I am doing is pointing out the obvious lack of logic in arguments like yours on such populations why by your own argument are those that have rejected the lot of you.

U didn't point out anything. Simply jumped into conclusion based on your preconceived baised perception regarding muslims. And just because they didn't migrate to E.PAK in 47 doesn't mean they rejected us and even they have hypothetical loyalty to PAK/BD today doesn't make their children illegals now. Just saying.

30 million pisspoor bangladeshis in india. no wonder the poverty situation in BD has improved
India: Resolving the Bangladesh Immigration Issue | The Diplomat

First know what 30 mn means u ignorant Indian. It seems piss poor India can't even ensure basic education to their ignorant hidutva masses.

You mean to say that any action at deporting detected illegal immigrants will lead to mob violence against legitimate Indian visa holders in Bangladesh?

What kind of response is this? Are you no better than the bozos who have been frothing at the mouth and jumping up and down on this issue?

Forget BD if u label Indian citizens as illegal then it would justifiably lead to mob violence in India. The bozos in your country seem to want exactly that.

 

[TopCat]

I am generally never angry with Bangladeshi brothers, in spite of their most egregious posts and statements.

This post, however, really makes me angry. Particularly as it comes from someone whom I have always treated with respect and faith in his statements.

I am leaving for an appraisal meeting in five or ten minutes. If by the time I return in the evening, @iajdani , you still believe this to be true, in every respect, let us take this discussion further.

Thank you for the good word about me. I lived in Bangladesh for my entire life except 6 years. Met or knew 3 muslim person who actually moved or migrated to India.
1) My distant uncle who was mentally unstable and suddenly disappeared leaving behind his wife about 32 years ago. I was a child then and remember very little about the incident. He came back after 10 years wearing some red clothes and dubba. He said he spent all those years in Azmeer to find God. We dont know if he ever met God but certainly he did after his death the following year.
2) The second story quite similar to the first. one. One girl who I dated, whose father abandoned them and left for Indian Azmeer. He became some Imam in India and never came back or contacted them back. He was well off and was a national football player. He actually left after getting some fight with his wife.

3) The 3rd person which I heard about, meets some of the profile you guys are describing all along. The caretaker of my last office had a brother who actually permanently migrated to India. it was 1971 when they crossed the border found a Garo house abandoned which they occupied. After 1971, 2 of this brother came back and 2 left to see if somebody comes back to claim the property.Nobody came so that they stayed. Still they regularly visit BD and takes the crops what they inherited here.

Now back to Hindu migration. Yes I met every other Hindu family who has members in India. They regularly visit with or without passport. We have every other family whose members live in middle east or western countries. They exist and we see them everywhere. Even in 90's when India opened private universities in India, thousands of students gone their for easy degree. There are thousands of patients viist India regularly, there are illegal smugglers cow traders who crosses border every fcking night. There are girls who are traficked to India for prostitution with the promise of better job. These are reality and we have no problem of accepting the fact.

But if you tell me that Muslim have the audacity or brave enough to cross the border and occupy land of Indians or Hindus then I am sorry I cant accept that. It is unrealistic, economically not viable, socially not implementable. I can only accept things which I can see.

 

[my2cents]

Another figure plucked out of thin air.

Anyway, BD won't accept them so go cry.

You are not in a position to dictate to India let alone cry hoarse.

 

[Bang Galore]

WHen did i say they hate us? Many muslim in India stayed back in 47 due to the fact that muslims have been relatively poor compared to Hindus and didn't want to leave whatever land/property their forefathers had in India. Doesn't mean they hate us. And even if they supposedly do hate us how does that make them illegals in India?

Yawn...they didn't care enough to join you, now you are supposed to get all uppity for them? A bit slow, aren't you?

Good. Then don't beat the drums of this illegal migrant myth.

Myth only to those inclined to believe in fairy tales.

Prove they r illegals first and then do what ever u want. It has to be agreed upon by both GOB and GOI supported by historical documents & facts.

Historical documents & facts? If they are not from Bangladesh, you have no locus standi and it's none of your business. I'm sure local people can make out who came when.

U didn't point out anything. Simply jumped into conclusion based on your preconceived baised perception regarding muslims. And just because they didn't migrate to E.PAK in 47 doesn't mean they rejected us and even they have hypothetical loyalty to PAK/BD today doesn't make their children illegals now. Just saying.

Unlike you, my mind does not operate on religious basis, that is your forte. Yes, if they didn't migrate to E.Pakistan, we will take it to mean that they wanted nothing to do with you lot & your opinion on people living in India does not mean jack. You can say whatever you want, it is for India to deal with people within its territory in the manner she sees fit, you don't get a say about people who didn't(supposedly) want to waste their time with you. Just saying.....

 

[Joe Shearer]

What made you jello?


Its the Hindu who consider India as their easy prey specially in NE. They already driven most aboriginal people from there. Thats causing the main strife and 90% of the D-Voter in Assam are Hindus which Modi asked to regularize.

Sadly, not true.

Most of the trouble is in lower Assam, in precisely those districts abutting the original immigrant districts. It is between the Bodo and the Muslim. Ethnic Assamese Muslims hate getting mixed up in these problems and prefer to stay aloof in Central Assam.

@halupridol can probably say more but chooses to stay away.

 

[TopCat]

Sadly, not true.

Most of the trouble is in lower Assam, in precisely those districts abutting the original immigrant districts. It is between the Bodo and the Muslim. Ethnic Assamese Muslims hate getting mixed up in these problems and prefer to stay aloof in Central Assam.

@halupridol can probably say more but chooses to stay away.

We can't take the word of Bodo's as absolute truth. Even your police or Government official could not find them illegal in the refugee camp that you built after the riot last year. In the NE its the indic vs mongoloid. Muslims are made easy target to get the sympathy of the mainland India by giving it a communal color. Thats it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thank you for the good word about me. I lived in Bangladesh for my entire life except 6 years. Met or knew 3 muslim person who actually moved or migrated to India.
1) My distant uncle who was mentally unstable and suddenly disappeared leaving behind his wife about 32 years ago. I was a child then and remember very little about the incident. He came back after 10 years wearing some red clothes and dubba. He said he spent all those years in Azmeer to find God. We dont know if he ever met God but certainly he did after his death the following year.
2) The second story quite similar to the first. one. One girl who I dated, whose father abandoned them and left for Indian Azmeer. He became some Imam in India and never came back or contacted them back. He was well off and was a national football player. He actually left after getting some fight with his wife.

3) The 3rd person which I heard about, meets some of the profile you guys are describing all along. The caretaker of my last office had a brother who actually permanently migrated to India. it was 1971 when they crossed the border found a Garo house abandoned which they occupied. After 1971, 2 of this brother came back and 2 left to see if somebody comes back to claim the property.Nobody came so that they stayed. Still they regularly visit BD and takes the crops what they inherited here.

Now back to Hindu migration. Yes I met every other Hindu family who has members in India. They regularly visit with or without passport. We have every other family whose members live in middle east or western countries. They exist and we see them everywhere. Even in 90's when India opened private universities in India, thousands of students gone their for easy degree. There are thousands of patients viist India regularly, there are illegal smugglers cow traders who crosses border every fcking night. There are girls who are traficked to India for prostitution with the promise of better job. These are reality and we have no problem of accepting the fact.

But if you tell me that Muslim have the audacity or brave enough to cross the border and occupy land of Indians or Hindus then I am sorry I cant accept that. It is unrealistic, economically not viable, socially not implementable. I can only accept things which I can see.

Let me deal with your post as systematically as I can.

It is not clear who is claiming that Muslims from Bangladesh infiltrate and then occupy Hindu land. That sounds absurd; it is absurd. What happens is slightly different.

1. In West Bengal, immigrants offer themselves as casual labourers, and if they stay on past the harvest, even better, stay on for more than a year, usually some party person or the local village heads try to help them get papers and gradually get absorbed. For them to get land is a long, long process. Most of this happens in the Murshidabad area, and the majority of the population are Muslim. There is no question of this kind of migrant occupying Hindu land. There is little question even of their occupying land.
2. In Assam, typically in Lower Assam, the districts abutting Rangpur, immigrants again offer themselves as casual labourers. It is the older established Muslim families of farmers, some of them quite prosperous by rural standards, who move out of crowded and expensive plots to less expensive land, usually to make their farming viable in terms of cost. I wonder if you are referring to this when you refer to occupying the lands of Indians or Hindus. There are few Hindu land-owners left in Lower Assam, and one has to go quite a bit inland to get free land. Usually this free land is tribal land, either individually owned or commonly owned. The tribals are far less in number than the pushy neighbours, and the result is that they feel more and more pressure. Muslim villages and hamlets are built, the Bodo feels cornered, and every five years or so, there is a reaction, an armed reaction, and many women and children die.
3. Hindu movement back and forth across the borders is a totally different matter. We are ourselves trying to get some students from Bangladesh.

 

[TopCat]

Let me deal with your post as systematically as I can.

It is not clear who is claiming that Muslims from Bangladesh infiltrate and then occupy Hindu land. That sounds absurd; it is absurd. What happens is slightly different.

1. In West Bengal, immigrants offer themselves as casual labourers, and if they stay on past the harvest, even better, stay on for more than a year, usually some party person or the local village heads try to help them get papers and gradually get absorbed. For them to get land is a long, long process. Most of this happens in the Murshidabad area, and the majority of the population are Muslim. There is no question of this kind of migrant occupying Hindu land. There is little question even of their occupying land
2. In Assam, typically in Lower Assam, the districts abutting Rangpur, immigrants again offer themselves as casual labourers. It is the older established Muslim families of farmers, some of them quite prosperous by rural standards, who move out of crowded and expensive plots to less expensive land, usually to make their farming viable in terms of cost. I wonder if you are referring to this when you refer to occupying the lands of Indians or Hindus. There are few Hindu land-owners left in Lower Assam, and one has to go quite a bit inland to get free land. Usually this free land is tribal land, either individually owned or commonly owned. The tribals are far less in number than the pushy neighbours, and the result is that they feel more and more pressure. Muslim villages and hamlets are built, the Bodo feels cornered, and every five years or so, there is a reaction, an armed reaction, and many women and children die.
3. Hindu movement back and forth across the borders is a totally different matter. We are ourselves trying to get some students from Bangladesh.

1. so it is limited to Murshidabad? What is the percentage of people living in Murshidabad actually illegal?
2. It is the prosperous Indian Muslims in Assam making inroad to less less expensive farmland. What Bangladesh has to do with it?
3. Hindus are the major immigrant who left Bangldesh and still find every opportunity to leave. If that is not a a problem then so be it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

1. so it is limited to Murshidabad? What is the percentage of people living in Murshidabad actually illegal?

Not exactly, but that is a prominent crossing point. It is difficult for me to give a figure, but my brother was in the government medical service some years ago, about ten to twelve years ago in fact, and indicated that fresh families turned up in villages at a very high rate. Not overwhelming the local population, but certainly significant enough to be noticed. Since we are Dhaka people originally, and since our uncles used to speak Dhaka dialect at home, he was quite sensitive to changes of accent and the presence of people from across the border (I'm not saying something absurd on the lines of those immigrants speaking Dhaka dialect, just that they spoke clearly differently from our local people).

Relations between locals and immigrants were quite relaxed, no tension.

2. It is the prosperous Indian Muslims in Assam making inroad to less less expensive farmland. What Bangladesh has to do with it?

That's what I am trying to explain.

The newer immigrants take on established lands and cultivate them as labourers or as share-croppers. The prosperous land-owners use their money to get more land in the tribal areas. Without the support of the immigrants, they would be busy cultivating their own land.

3. Hindus are the major immigrant who left Bangldesh and still find every opportunity to leave. If that is not a a problem then so be it.

It is a problem, but communalists don't see it as such. Let us let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Joe Shearer]

1. so it is limited to Murshidabad? What is the percentage of people living in Murshidabad actually illegal?
2. It is the prosperous Indian Muslims in Assam making inroad to less less expensive farmland. What Bangladesh has to do with it?
3. Hindus are the major immigrant who left Bangldesh and still find every opportunity to leave. If that is not a a problem then so be it.

Recently I have reports - anecdotal, I don't know how authentic - of significant numbers crossing over in north 24 Parganas, next to Jessore, and even some in Dinajpur, which is pretty surprising; Dinajpur is quite inhospitable for agriculture.

You should also know that there are parts of Central Calcutta - the quadrangle between Wellesley Street and Chowringhee, bounded by S. N. Bannerjee Road in the north (the Corporation building is on that) and Park Street in the south which is increasingly Bangladesh-oriented. The hotels, the shops, the restaurants, all have shifted to cater to the Bangladeshi tourist - tourist, mind you, this is not part of the other discussion going on. These tourists come in for medical treatment, mainly, surprisingly so, because medical practice in Calcutta is decades behind medical practices in other metros or even sub-metros.

This is just for information, not really part of the discussion.

Incidentally, these tourists are high-spenders, not poor people looking for jobs. My friend, who is Chairman of a prominent Bangladeshi shipping and distribution firm, comes across to raid the bookshops and get his quarterly fix of street food. It is quite funny; he stays at the best hotels, and sneaks out to eat from pavement stalls (Calcutta street food is the best in the country).

 

[Didact]

We can't take the word of Bodo's as absolute truth. Even your police or Government official could not find them illegal in the refugee camp that you built after the riot last year. In the NE its the indic vs mongoloid. Muslims are made easy target to get the sympathy of the mainland India by giving it a communal color. Thats it.

Don't write crap. However much you think you know about Assam and its problems, you know zilch.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I request members to please read the article first.

For every 10 links for the motion, there are 10 articles against it. State policy is not dictated by these. The Government of India has already set in motion all that is required to rid India of illegals in a short period of time. Law will take its own course from now on.

It is obvious that Bangladesh will not accept them. In which case they will either stay in UN camps as stateless people or be pushed into the no man's land between India and Bangladesh.

I am aware that the solution is immoral by our standards, but statecraft is perhaps like that. We have been unable to properly feed our own so many years after independence, even when we have surplus food rotting in the warehouses.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Don't write crap. However much you think you know about Assam and its problems, you know zilch.

Can we be a little polite in our discussions please? This is not acceptable.