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Myanmar Air Force confirms purchase of JF-17 «Thunder» fighter jets

Weapons are produced to kill. Selling them to customers and tell them not to use its intended purpose won't do. That is the difference between the West and China/Russia. The West pretends to be a good guy trying to impress people that their weapon should not be used against certain human being. China/Russia do not want to pretend. They know the weapons they sold will kill someone and ask no question. The choice is whether you prefer hypocrisy or bad guy.
 
What is silly is ur post. Here are some facts taken from the UN's website. The link is below if u wish to confirm it for urself.

"The UN has no military forces of its own, and Member States provide, on a voluntary basis, the military and police personnel required for each peacekeeping operation.

Peacekeeping soldiers are paid by their own Governments according to their own national rank and salary scale. Countries volunteering uniformed personnel to peacekeeping operations are reimbursed by the UN at a standard rate, approved by the General Assembly, of a little over US$1,332 per soldier per month.

Police and other civilian personnel are paid from the peacekeeping budgets established for each operation.

The UN also reimburses Member States for providing equipment, personnel and support services to military or police contingents."

Here are the top 10 countries that finance UN missions.
  1. United States (28.57%)
  2. China (10.29%)
  3. Japan (9.68%)
  4. Germany (6.39%)
  5. France (6.31%)
  6. United Kingdom (5.80%)
  7. Russian Federation (4.01%)
  8. Italy (3.75%)
  9. Canada (2.92%)
  10. Spain (2.44%)
http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/operations/financing.shtml

Pakistan is the third biggest contributor of troops to the UN. Do u wanna know who is number 1? Ethiopia. Now by ur reasoning Ethiopia should have a lot of influence on the UN...does it? Now look at the top 10 financiers of the UN and see how much influence they have had on the UN and u'll get ur answer.

In a way these are just jobs. Ethiopia and Pak troops are just employees. The employers are US and other western countries. If we don't contribute the troops, some other country will. Now wake up from this dream that we have any influence in UN. It's China that helps us out in UN from time to time.

As for Pakistan projecting power on Myanmar, please enlighten me on how can we do that?

P.S. I do not in anyway condone what Myanmar is doing to Rohingyas. I'm just stating the reality, whether u choose to accept it or not is up to u.
I gave a general comment wasn't calling you silly. you just posted everything I know already, this is discussion forum, never get personal.
When I said Military Aided I meant our military has an influence over our countries policy, government and people themselves. we are UN member not that we are giving the highest Aid to UN. However Pakistan's troop size is highest in peace keeping mission, giving highest number of troop by Ethiopia doesn't mean they have conducted the peace keeping missions at full scale of their assign UN troop size.
here
Check this link from 2013 index.
When I said projection of power is through the current regional shift since CPEC and GWADAR and Russian influence of Pakistan, we can bring this issue on high tide and someway or other we can also ask the powers to pressure Rohingyas to stop the massacre.

On the other hand Pakistan is new to the military market, lot to mature even if Myanmar buys our jf17's there is no way we can pressurize them the way Americans have done to us in past because Pakistan realized the mistake and changed the military weapon supplier from US to now China and self reliance. If they buy our planes, Myanmar is not a embargoed country it will just look for other suppliers for planes, china still builds cheaper fighter planes like f7BG for example. if we some way we ban supplies of jf17 in foreseeable future they will just shift to other suppliers and sell jf17 to a country that is ally to Pakistan so they can use them instead and will buy planes from the new supplier.
 
Lol...I have seen people like you here and mostly you Indians brag like this, I have read this and that and in reality you people are just talk and talk...Before spitting BS here and turning this nice thread into a bad one, go read about your imported Tejas powered by Truck and leave us to ourself...!
Latest is Tejas rejected by Indian Navy being under powered and unable to take off with combat load.
 
Then why block trade with India? Why not recognise Israel and Armenia???

Why do you lose faith in Allah when it comes to Kashmiris and Palestinians but miraculously have it for rohingyas and uighurs?

It's about dollars, water and land baby. Keep it simple.

Throw it somewhere else you lying hindu chauvinist. What Pakistan will do is the business of Pak Armed Forces and people of Pakistan.
Yes, Kashmir is our lifeline and Pakistan will take it back only thing is India will be no more a country like what hapened in to hundu raj in the late 11th century till early 19th century.
You have just two decades of relative prosperity and strength, and that also not all by your own hands but with help from USA, and you think you have become a big power. You are in for a rude awakenig in few years.
 
I gave a general comment wasn't calling you silly. you just posted everything I know already, this is discussion forum, never get personal.

U quoted me and replied with this...this was ur opening statement.
This is the silliest thing I have heard so far.

Not only did u just dismiss what I said u also did it with an argument that u didn't even bother to back up, quoted below.

We are muslims and we cant cooperate in anyway to our enemies. We are powerful enough to project power on myanmar. Ask UN to intervene, afterall we are the largest military aided UN country.

Then when I poked holes in ur argument u resort to saying that it wasn't a personal attack...

But just to keep this discussion civil, I'll just take ur word for it and not resort to personal insults.

When I said Military Aided I meant our military has an influence over our countries policy, government and people themselves. we are UN member not that we are giving the highest Aid to UN. However Pakistan's troop size is highest in peace keeping mission, giving highest number of troop by Ethiopia doesn't mean they have conducted the peace keeping missions at full scale of their assign UN troop size.
here
Check this link from 2013 index.
Like I said peace keeping missions are just jobs for which our soldiers are financially compensated. This doesn't give us any influence over UN. If we don't supply those troops for those peacekeeping missions, some other country will.

As to the bold part of ur statement. The Arab countries receive the most assistance from our military in terms of training and even manpower. One of these countries is UAE, do u think that we have influence over them? Did u read the news in the past few years? When Pak decided not to be a part of Arab coalition to fight in Yemen, UAE responded by getting closer to India. The largest contingent of our troops is in Saudia Arabia and they too rely a lot on our military in terms of training and support. Do u think we have influence over them? No they have relatively close ties with India and employ more Indians than Pakistanis.

When I said projection of power is through the current regional shift since CPEC and GWADAR and Russian influence of Pakistan

CPEC isn't mature enough yet. It's barely starting out. Russian and Pak ties are also barely starting out and haven't reached the point yet where they have to listen to us.

we can bring this issue on high tide and someway or other we can also ask the powers to pressure Rohingyas to stop the massacre.

All we can do is ask. Whether they listen to us is another question. If the big powers wanted to get involved and solve this issue they would have regardless of if we asked or not. Pak asking them to do something wouldn't change much. But there's no harm in trying it I guess.

On the other hand Pakistan is new to the military market, lot to mature even if Myanmar buys our jf17's there is no way we can pressurize them the way Americans have done to us in past

Yes we are new to the military market and we will remain new if u insist that we axe the JF17 deal to our very first customer. It wouldn't buy us instant influence over them instead it will take a while but the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Just like Russia has some sway over India since a majority of India's arms are Russian(it's fast changing and India is diversifying its assets but it still applies for now)

Myanmar is not a embargoed country it will just look for other suppliers for planes, china still builds cheaper fighter planes like f7BG for example

Yes if we don't sell them JF17 due to Rohingya massacre, some other country will. We'll lose out on the much needed money and it would be one less customer for JF17...and the Rohingya massacre would continue.

if we some way we ban supplies of jf17 in foreseeable future they will just shift to other suppliers and sell jf17 to a country that is ally to Pakistan so they can use them instead and will buy planes from the new supplier.
Once they have a sizeable number of JF17, it's not as simple as just switching to some other jet. When US embargoed Pak, Pak didn't instantly switch to a new jet and that's how US was able to have some hold on Pak for a while(among their various other ways). It takes a while for militaries to switch entire platforms, especially if it's a developing country. Also I don't think that Pak would or should put instant stop to JF17 support once they have it. Instead make it so appealing that they buy more and more arms from us until they r extremely dependent on us and maybe then we might have some say in their matters.

Conclusion:
Ideally if all the Muslim countries voiced their concerns together about the Rohingya massacre, our voice would be heard. Together the Muslim countries represent a large swath of land with immense resources/military/economy...
but all of them r divided. So this is never going to happen.

This means Pak would find itself alone if Pak tried this. In terms of military power we r certainly stronger than Myanmar but that is a moot point bcuz we can't exert it against them. Economically we r not big enough nor does Myanmar rely on us for anything so they have nothing to lose there.

On international forums we r not a big enough power to have our voice heard.

The only thing we can do for the moment is work hard to make ourselves strong economically/militarily and in every other way so that maybe in the future we wouldn't be as powerless as we r now to stop such incidents.
 
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U quoted me and replied with this...this was ur opening statement.


Not only did u just dismiss what I said u also did it with an argument that u didn't even bother to back up, quoted below.



Then when I poked holes in ur argument u resort to saying that it wasn't a personal attack...

But just to keep this discussion civil, I'll just take ur word for it and not resort to personal insults.


Like I said peace keeping missions are just jobs for which our soldiers are financially compensated. This doesn't give us any influence over UN. If we don't supply those troops for those peacekeeping missions, some other country will.

As to the bold part of ur statement. The Arab countries receive the most assistance from our military in terms of training and even manpower. One of these countries is UAE, do u think that we have influence over them? Did u read the news in the past few years? When Pak decided not to be a part of Arab coalition to fight in Yemen, UAE responded by getting closer to India. The largest contingent of our troops is in Saudia Arabia and they too rely a lot on our military in terms of training and support. Do u think we have influence over them? No they have relatively close ties with India and employ more Indians than Pakistanis.



CPEC isn't mature enough yet. It's barely starting out. Russian and Pak ties are also barely starting out and haven't reached the point yet where they have to listen to us.



All we can do is ask. Whether they listen to us is another question. If the big powers wanted to get involved and solve this issue they would have regardless of if we asked or not. Pak asking them to do something wouldn't change much. But there's no harm in trying it I guess.



Yes we are new to the military market and we will remain new if u insist that we axe the JF17 deal to our very first customer. It wouldn't buy us instant influence over them instead it will take a while but the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Just like Russia has some sway over India since a majority of India's arms are Russian(it's fast changing and India is diversifying its assets but it still applies for now)



Yes if we don't sell them JF17 due to Rohingya massacre, some other country will. We'll lose out on the much needed money and it would be one less customer for JF17...and the Rohingya massacre would continue.


Once they have a sizeable number of JF17, it's not as simple as just switching to some other jet. When US embargoed Pak, Pak didn't instantly switch to a new jet and that's how US was able to have some hold on Pak for a while(among their various other ways). It takes a while for militaries to switch entire platforms, especially if it's a developing country. Also I don't think that Pak would or should put instant stop to JF17 support once they have it. Instead make it so appealing that they buy more and more arms from us until they r extremely dependent on us and maybe then we might have some say in their matters.

Conclusion:
Ideally if all the Muslim countries voiced their concerns together about the Rohingya massacre, our voice would be heard. Together the Muslim countries represent a large swath of land with immense resources/military/economy...
but all of them r divided. So this is never going to happen.

This means Pak would find itself alone if Pak tried this. In terms of military power we r certainly stronger than Myanmar but that is a moot point bcuz we can't exert it against them. Economically we r not big enough nor does Myanmar rely on us for anything so they have nothing to lose there.

On international forums we r not a big enough power to have our voice heard.

The only thing we can do for the moment is work hard to make ourselves strong economically/militarily and in every other way so that maybe in the future we wouldn't be as powerless as we r now to stop such incidents.

By then their will be not even a single Muslim alive in Myanmar. Time should not be ignored. already 1000's are dead even if we wait few months there will be 1000 more dead. this is military weapons trading they can use them against Muslims and military weapons take years to receive weapons from suppliers, by then all Muslims will be massacred.
 
By then their will be not even a single Muslim alive in Myanmar. Time should not be ignored. already 1000's are dead even if we wait few months there will be 1000 more dead. this is military weapons trading they can use them against Muslims and military weapons take years to receive weapons from suppliers, by then all Muslims will be massacred.
Yes we should do something soon. I was just responding to u saying that we shouldn't sell them JF17 due to Rohingya massacre. I was pointing out that it would accomplish nothing.

As for the solution to this Rohingya massacre, Here are the possible solutions:

1) All Muslim countries band together to put some pressure on the international community and Myanmar to stop the genocide.
- Unlikely

2) Pakistan could try to bring it to UN's attention and try to convince some big powers to get on board so UN can intervene.
- The big powers and UN seem uninterested so far. This Rohingya issue has actually existed for decades. They have been fleeing to Bangladesh and living in refugee camps. It's just getting more attention now since Myanmar has recently gone into overdrive with their ethnic cleansing. So if the big powers and UN didn't do anything during all this time, I'm very doubtful that they'll do anything now.

3) Pakistan allows refuge to the Rohingya Muslims.
- This is potentially the only solution that can be implemented(short of international community pressuring Myanmar to stop this genocide). We could try to convince other Muslim countries to accept some refugees too and possibly get some aid from UN for the rehabilitation of the Rohingyas. Similar to what Pak did for Afghan refugees.

In conclusion the Rohingya genocide and JF17 deal are separate things. Pak stopping the JF17 deal will not help Rohingya Muslims, it'll only hurt Pak.
 
Production
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) holds the exclusive rights of 58% of JF-17 airframe co-production work. A comprehensive infrastructure comprising state of the art machines and required skilled human resource has very quickly been developed at the Complex. The final assembly and flight testing of the aircraft was the first JF-17 co-production activity to start at PAC. The first PAC produced aircraft was handed over to Pakistan Air Force in November 2009. Since then, aircraft are being produced regularly to meet the required schedule. The co-production of sub assemblies and structural parts has also commenced and is sequentially attaining the sustained production status. Besides upgrading the production system, PAC has also upgraded its quality, technology and archive management systems to meet the production and management standards of a 3rd generation fighter aircraft.

http://www.pac.org.pk/jf-17
Post the cool documentry of pac only that will convince doubters

Pakistanis why are you emotional over selling weapons finally you have a constumer @nd you are saying we should turn back?
 
I think PAC might secure around 100+ external orders for the JF-17s which they are gonna delivered in a period of 5 years.
 
when supplying starting from? any dates? since 2014 we are hearing order confirmation.

Yes we should do something soon. I was just responding to u saying that we shouldn't sell them JF17 due to Rohingya massacre. I was pointing out that it would accomplish nothing.

As for the solution to this Rohingya massacre, Here are the possible solutions:

1) All Muslim countries band together to put some pressure on the international community and Myanmar to stop the genocide.
- Unlikely

2) Pakistan could try to bring it to UN's attention and try to convince some big powers to get on board so UN can intervene.
- The big powers and UN seem uninterested so far. This Rohingya issue has actually existed for decades. They have been fleeing to Bangladesh and living in refugee camps. It's just getting more attention now since Myanmar has recently gone into overdrive with their ethnic cleansing. So if the big powers and UN didn't do anything during all this time, I'm very doubtful that they'll do anything now.

3) Pakistan allows refuge to the Rohingya Muslims.
- This is potentially the only solution that can be implemented(short of international community pressuring Myanmar to stop this genocide). We could try to convince other Muslim countries to accept some refugees too and possibly get some aid from UN for the rehabilitation of the Rohingyas. Similar to what Pak did for Afghan refugees.

In conclusion the Rohingya genocide and JF17 deal are separate things. Pak stopping the JF17 deal will not help Rohingya Muslims, it'll only hurt Pak.
lol no one live in BD or PAK, 40K + rohingya is living in India.

you care soo much would you like to take them?
 
I really want to reply to this post for some reason.

1-Remember how our arse burned and still burns to this day for f-16 fiascos by the US? I mean its alright wishing shit for other but when same hits us all the fanboys start calling names to US this and US that?
2-We are newbies in the weapons industry, doing such a thing will alert the others and people will be hesitant to conduct business with us.
3-We must not stop or even think of stopping any weapon supplies to any of our esteemed customers. These sales dont just mean dollars, they mean that Mr. Rashid from Chak 411 gets to eat a good break for dinner. For that if a rohingya dies... i dont care, because i am a nationalist.

About Muslims of the old ---> Most of the "Muslims of the old" we autocracies where one person the king held all the power. Now for the empires that lasted long and for the majority of them if you study them, you'll find that many had a secular point of view about the system of government. Also, in wars they sided with the side who gave them the most tactical or strategic advantage rather than playing good muslim bad muslim. Thats how "muslims of the old" worked and thats why they rules.

p.s --> majority of great muslim rulers were not mullahs.
Lol, no offence but when one's stupid he should do his best to hide it and the easiest way to accomplish that is to remain silent, now lets see let me educate u boy , u are a piece of shit if u think that mr rashids bread is more important than a rohingya's life, one of the dellusional one's arent u who probably dont even know what nationalism really means and for that u are actually athreat to pakistani nationalism, perfect example of a capitalistic inbred you, and once the sale goes through nothing a country can do cause for a state like myanmar 16 crafts are lot with the coming future in view, after the sale thier airforce will become automatically dependent on us, economic boys, nothing beats economics trust me and coming to muslims of the old and history by what u said ur knowledge of history probably comes from the likes of professor hoodlum, dont even start a debate with me on history cause i surely know more on the topic than ur 10 generatoons combined, no previous muslim state had a secular way of doing things, if u know even a shred of history which i seriously doubt than u should know that secularism is a marxist phenomina and a cancer which emerged only in the past century, dont confuse it with aristotles athiems, secularism and athiesm are miles apart a fact u liberal fundos fail to grasp, secularism means no interference of religion in state while the past muslim empires functioned on the sharia law which is decreed by islam, it wae understood that the ruler was a gaurdian of Allah's law on earth, these rights for minorities etc are islamic phenomina's not secular, islam was the one which gave equal rights to all human biengs regardless of ethnicity, these fucking modern liberals are so shameless that they credit secularism with the latter, so the last muslim leaders were acting according to islammwhen they gave full rights to minorities, moreover it was islam that put exceptional emphisis on knowledge hence the muslims of the old were acting acoording to islamic teachings when they excelled in science and discovered most of its fundamental principles when ur dear secular west was in the dark, hope i was able to crack that thick brain of urs if u r a pakistani which i doubt....
 
you care soo much would you like to take them?

Had u read my post, u would see that is exactly what I proposed as a solution.

lol no one live in BD or PAK, 40K + rohingya is living in India.

1) As of June 2015. Here is the population of all Rohingya ppl in various countries(not just the Burmese/Myanmar Rohingyas)

Myanmar 1.23 million
Saudi Arabia 400,000
Bangladesh 300,000–500,000
Pakistan 200,000
Thailand 100,000
Malaysia 40,070
Indonesia 11,941
Nepal 200
India 11,471

2) If we were to look at Burmese Rohingyas that are being persecuted causing this crisis. Here is some more information for u.

"As of June 2016, about 1.23 million Rohingyas living in Myanmar. They reside mainly in the northern Rakhine townships, where they form 80–98% of the population. Many Rohingyas have fled to ghettos and refugee camps in neighbouring Bangladesh and to areas along the border with Thailand. Large scale Rohingya migration to the Pakistani city of Karachi has made Karachi one of the largest population centres of Rohingyas after Myanmar. More than 100,000 Rohingyas in Myanmar continue to live in camps for internally displaced persons, not allowed by authorities to leave. Rohingyas have received international attention in the wake of 2012 Rakhine state riots, and more recently because of their attempted migration throughout Southeast Asia in the 2015 Rohingya refugee crisis."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_people

So u see no matter how u look at it, in this d*ck measuring contest that u started, u come out short on both counts :woot:
 
Had u read my post, u would see that is exactly what I proposed as a solution.



1) As of June 2015. Here is the population of all Rohingya ppl in various countries(not just the Burmese/Myanmar Rohingyas)

Myanmar 1.23 million
Saudi Arabia 400,000
Bangladesh 300,000–500,000
Pakistan 200,000
Thailand 100,000
Malaysia 40,070
Indonesia 11,941
Nepal 200
India 11,471

2) If we were to look at Burmese Rohingyas that are being persecuted causing this crisis. Here is some more information for u.

"As of June 2016, about 1.23 million Rohingyas living in Myanmar. They reside mainly in the northern Rakhine townships, where they form 80–98% of the population. Many Rohingyas have fled to ghettos and refugee camps in neighbouring Bangladesh and to areas along the border with Thailand. Large scale Rohingya migration to the Pakistani city of Karachi has made Karachi one of the largest population centres of Rohingyas after Myanmar. More than 100,000 Rohingyas in Myanmar continue to live in camps for internally displaced persons, not allowed by authorities to leave. Rohingyas have received international attention in the wake of 2012 Rakhine state riots, and more recently because of their attempted migration throughout Southeast Asia in the 2015 Rohingya refugee crisis."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_people


So u see no matter how u look at it, in this d*ck measuring contest that u started, u come out short on both counts :woot:

http://www.unhcr.org.in/index.php?option=com_news&view=detail&id=47&Itemid=117

These are registered number and many more living unregistered , Thats why see roads full on Muslims during friday namaz.... fed with that....

remember Jammu hut firing? they not supposed to be their in Jammu officially, but they are

https://www.thequint.com/india/2015...mu-a-rohingyas-journey-to-a-place-called-home

Latest is Tejas rejected by Indian Navy being under powered and unable to take off with combat load.
so what , how many countries make Planes that can takeoff with AC? non, so we are trying to make and improve it over period of time. why you feel jelous ?

But again, What is the supplying Date?? when you started supplying them .... we have confirmation but when they will buy ? NO ONE KNOWS ...... may after 50 yrs ...
 
when supplying starting from? any dates? since 2014 we are hearing order confirmation.


lol no one live in BD or PAK, 40K + rohingya is living in India.

you care soo much would you like to take them?
Like we took Bangladesh and pakistan from you
 

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