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My prediction: SCO will become a military alliance within 10 years

Well, India is likely to remain neutral in order to gain more benefits from both side.

Involve India in anything and they will ruin it. Involving them in SCO is the biggest mistake SCO will ever make. BRICS can't do anything because of India.

China should stop appeasing India and treat it as the enemy. India is no friend of China, I can assure you that.

India always does the dirty work of the West once they weasel themselves into these organisations. India is controlled by the Washington and London elite.

India is from the same cloth as US, UK, France in terms of imperial ambitions. They are wolves in sheep clothing.
 
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:coffee: IMO Modi's India has been both an opportunist and a fence sitter. We all know that e.g. Modi's sudden trip to Russia on Dec. 24, 2015 alarming Obama. That is why both USA and Russia never truly trusted her anyway.

Apart from the wound inflicted by China to India during the Sino-Indo War in 1962, there are many other problems. IMO India foreign policy just sucks.

Although China has been offering an olive branch to India since President Jiang's time in office but China was somehow taken back by India's lip service and superficial handling of the relationship. There is a lack of sincerity to resolve matters. Indians will always blame China while failing to look up to the obvious fact e.g. the state propagandists in India ignored the truth about the "Henderson Brooks-Bhagat report" and who really started the war or how the term "Nehru's snub" was coined. That is why China-Pakistan relationship is so concrete and time-tested. China trusts Pakistan.

As I often opined, let Japan & others build those HSR, etc project in India and let them experience the frustration of working in India. Then they will soon learn like many of us frm ASEAN. :cheers:

Abe's Japan is so desperate and needed allies so badly against China that she forego her decades old principle of denying the existence of sex-slaves to accommodate South Korea but failed to acknowledge the suffering of the rest of the sex-slaves in Asia including Philippines, Taiwan, etc not to mention China.

Don't we think Japan should do more than just apology to South Korea? How about revising their textbooks as well. The thing that is needed to educate the future generations of Japan about the truth about Meiji's Japan expansionism, war atrocitities, Japanese Imperial Army Lab 731 experiments, etc. ?

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India already joined SCO, a security organization, joined RATS anti terror structure of SCO which holds military exercises every 3-4 years among members

The current SCO. Not the one OP is talking about as a 'NATO' counter.

India's foreign policy is effective at getting near everything they want from every nation, within reason. Investment from all major nations including China and the GCC, and then defense and nuclear deals with Russia and the West. A flexible position that is unique among larger nations.

India has nothing to gain from joining an explicitly anti-West organization, when they can simply play both sides and reap the benefits.
 
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:coffee: While Shanghai Cooperation Organistion is to ensure that the sneaky West will not slips into their meaning Russia and China backyard, there is simply NO NEED for another military alliance in the like of NATO, a post cold war creation to counter WARSAW PACT.

Russia and China as a strategic military partner is already sending chills to another superpower USA.

As I says before, India is distrusted by USA, Russia or China. She is an opportunist and a fence sitter. India will have to prove herself to the others, what she really is? Right now, she is neither here nor there.
 
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As I says before, India is distrusted by USA, Russia or China.

Is that why Russia offered co-development in 5th generation fighter, Akula-II nuclear submarine lease, S-400 offer, 6 more nuclear reactors, etc.

I don't need to tell you about US, as you are clearly paranoid about them. Nuclear deals, EMALS, Apache helicopters, Stinger missiles, etc.


Ground realities don't match your analysis. India is fully getting everything Russia and US could possibly offer, within reason. US will never offer F-22 jets and Russia their Yasen submarines for instance.
 
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Pakistan is looking forward to joining SCO as a full member. We are looking towards TRADE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ETC ETC and not a military alliance in ten years time.The likely benefits of SCO will be peace and prosperity for all members of SCO. Today we have excellent friendship with China. Our relationships with Russia are improving gradually. With USA and EU we have a working relationship. Our relations are also good with the Arab world. Why should we rock the boat by making hostile alliances. Even if cold war 2.0 starts, I believe that now it is out turn to play neutral with all parties and reduce poverty in our country and strive for economic and military development.
 
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Well, I like wonder woman, I don't want to wear the costume tho :lol:

Anyway, back on topic, any such alliance would require one country to literally fight for another country for something that may not concern them to begin with. Would China fight for Russia in Syria? Or Would China fight in Iraq for Iran? Or Iran fighting In Ukraine? I just don't see it coming.

Before this can be move on to the issue, there are also points that you will need to protect your alliance member unconditionally, and that's what eke the Chinese or the Russian to begin with, I mean, why would any of them want to be dragged into a conflict they did not start?
China legalises overseas counter-terrorism operations in controversial new anti-terror laws.

China has legalised overseas counter-terror operations by its military — according to the details of a controversial new law — as it tries to tie violence linked to mainly Muslim Xinjiang into global concerns about extremism.

Key points
  • China passes new counter-terrorism laws, extending its overseas operations
  • The move marks a change in China's stance of non-intervention overseas

Under the counter-terrorism legislation passed on the weekend, Beijing "may send personnel outside the border to carry out anti-terror activities" when the "relevant country" agrees, according to the text published by the official Xinhua news agency.

The measure applies to the People's Liberation Army, the People's Armed Police and employees of the country's public security organs, Xinhua said.

In recent years, China has increasingly moved away from former statesman Deng Xiaoping's dictum of "keeping a low profile" in foreign and military affairs.

It is expanding the reach of its armed forces far around the world, seeking to build a "blue water" navy capable of operating in distant seas and commissioning its first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, in 2012.

In November, Beijing announced it would build a logistics hub in the African nation of Djibouti to support its units on United Nations and anti-piracy missions in the region.

China is a top contributor of peacekeepers to the continent and has helped patrol the waters off the lawless Somali coast.

Beijing has long proclaimed its belief in non-interference in other countries' domestic affairs, but that could be changing.

Two years ago a top public security official said it had considered a drone strike against a drug lord in Myanmar linked to the murders of 13 Chinese sailors.

The new legislation could apply to similar actions in the face of situations such as the November murder of a Chinese citizen by the Islamic State group.

The law establishes a co-ordinating body to "direct national counter-terrorism work", the text published overnight read.

China legalises overseas counter-terrorism operations in controversial new anti-terror laws - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


That would changing in the future. you can see it, if you see closely China Military development in recent years.
China is So Powerful today, and they have Good Power Projection Power.

China, Pakistan, Russia, and Iran is alliances.
and if they have Common enemies, I am sure China will send somekind of Joint Ops. :-)

China is Unpredictable Country.
One week before Chinese Intervention in Korean War, if you ask American, 'there is any chance China send troops to help North Korea against us and allies?'

The answer is Big NO !!!
China just torn by 8 years war from Japan Aggresion and 4 years war in Civil war.
and they would not dare to fight against the strongest country in the world that time, who have Atomic Bomb, and the Winner of World War 2.

But History tell the other thing, Right? :-)
They Push back U.S Troops and Allies back to Pusan.

China is Unpredictable because they keep Low-Profile, even though they are already as Powerful today.
China is so Powerful today, no doubt.

And No One in here can Predict what China will do in the Future with their Powerful Military. :police:

History Never Lie.
Time will tell us.



Pakistan and China , we always favor trade and mutual respect for other nations SCO would be a good venture provided it focuses on Economy and mutual partnerships.

Military alliance comes with time

Pakistan has to first improve relation with its central Asian partners improve trade and also improve trade with Russia etc and grow that aspect , and also help reduce the tension between Turkey and Russia etc

Pakistan 100% trust China , and based on that trust , we signed up for Shanghai Cooperation , from a trade partnership for peaceful nations. And yes its 100% true we should improve trade and economy and understanding between cultures with our regional friends

It is a great platform to improve relations with other countries

View attachment 284079

Pakistan and China relations are already like brothers , not even friends level

Yes, Pakistan and China is Iron Brother. :cheers:
China Military is so powerful today.
and no doubt that China and Pakistan will Help each other if there is any country who threaten them.

Hope SCO is getting bigger and bigger, with Pakistan, Iran, and Mongolia join as a Full Member.
I still don't know why Russia insists India to be accepted as a Full Member in SCO.
I am Worried about that.


But, let's see the Positive side.
Greece and Turkey is Don't like each other too. But NATO is still working right. :D
 
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SCO's expansion plans, if any, into a military alliance (perhaps in a softer way than NATO) would have nothing to do with India joining or not. The SCO has its own power structures, guidelines and policies. Full membership means these preconditions are accepted. Otherwise, it is always possible to be kicked out. This is true for any potential new comers.

I believe, the SCO will transform into a sort of military alliance in line with its founding principles. In that sense, it will remain defense-oriented and won't be taking offensive operations unlike NATO. It will remain first and foremost a regional military bloc, which is good for everybody in the region given that global terrorism has never been more threatening.

China-US will have to sort it out in one way or another as power transition continues. But this will likely be a bilateral affair because no one on either camp will be willing to put their neck on the chopping block for the two big powers. UK won't be sacrificing itself for the US just as China's close partners won't do that for China. For it is extremely dangerous to get involved since both are nuclear powers.

On this issue, China can rely on Russia to some degree and the US can rely on nuclear European powers, again, to some degree. Compare and contrast the capabilities of China's and US' nuclear partners, and do the math which one stands on a more favorable ground. And consider the ever deepening strategic partnership with Russia while the EU is being pulled toward China at least from a point of view of development.

The SCO institutionalization will become only an extension of the greater China-Russia alliance.

US behavior will fasten or slow down the trend. But it won't stop it.

@Chinese-Dragon , @vostok
 
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military alliance with uneasy members...
Initially, yes.

NATO was messy when it was first formed. The French pulled out and later rejoined.

As long as China and Russia combine together, you will have an incredibly powerful Eurasian behemoth. Throw in Kazakhstan to fill in the gap geographically. Put the final piece of Iran at the western gate and it looks unbeatable.

SCO: 1.6 billion people. About 2,000 megatons of thermonuclear weapons. Chinese J-20 and J-31 stealth fighters.

NATO: 1 billion people. About 600 megatons of thermonuclear weapons. American F-22 and F-35 stealth fighters.

Assuming a land battle on the SCO/NATO European border, SCO should win. The bulk of NATO power is in the United States, which is strongest in the Western Hemisphere. China and Russia dominate Eurasia.

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SCO (plus Iran) can bring its full power to bear against NATO's soft European flank. NATO is strongest in North America. NATO is weak in Europe. Look at the tiny European landmass in comparison to SCO's absolutely enormous size. SCO is one contiguous superpower.

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Is that why Russia offered co-development in 5th generation fighter, Akula-II nuclear submarine lease, S-400 offer, 6 more nuclear reactors, etc.

I don't need to tell you about US, as you are clearly paranoid about them. Nuclear deals, EMALS, Apache helicopters, Stinger missiles, etc.

Ground realities don't match your analysis. India is fully getting everything Russia and US could possibly offer, within reason. US will never offer F-22 jets and Russia their Yasen submarines for instance.

:coffee: Many of us kept wondering what is this so-called co-development of FGFA between India and Russia where up till today NO IAF test pilot has been allowed to fly in any one of the prototypes although the program in in quite an advanced stage. If this represent TRUST then this may be Indian idea or interpretation of joint development which begs another question, what is in fact India's contribution to the project.

Next Akula-II is a nuclear attack submarine is leased to India and it is stipulated as a condition that maintenance will be borne by the Russian. It has no ballistic missile launch capability. All these happened before Modi came to power and court the US. Russia was watching with wary eyes on every India's moves. Apparently what happened did not inspired the confidence of either Russia nor USA.

And so for you to claim that USA will offer its F-22 to India is just an Indian nationalistic fanboy fantasy.

India could even afford to conclude the initial French Rafale deal they were boasting about, are now talking about acquiring USD 350 million per piece F-22 even if by a miracle the USA will allow India to have them.

That is laughable. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

We can talk about ground reality, when one pays a visit to the Capital of both these nations. I assure you, you will be shocked at the dichotomy of these two cities.

As I always opined. India is India and China is China.

Can't blame India as she has an economy only 1/5 that of China. India is not in the same league. So stop comparing and grouping India with the big boys or superpowers. This is the reality and India foreign policy sucks. Neither here nor there. Swaying with the wind.

Have you guys in ASEAN already had those frustrating experiences?
Off course. We in ASEAN have offered consultancies as well as build airports, highways for India and some were on BOT contracts. Many believed that these are lucrative contracts until later on. The red tapes, local laws, different cultural or works ethics, etc Naturally there are so success stories as well although most of them believe they were take for a ride. Today some of these firms involved in these projects like highways are in deep shit as they are haul in by the local securities commission in their own countries being question for the discrepancies found in the accounts book on these projects albeit the delays, etc.
 
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:coffee: Many of us kept wondering what is this so-called co-development of FGFA between India and Russia where up till today NO IAF test pilot has been allowed to fly in any one of the prototypes although the program in in quite an advanced stage. If this represent TRUST then this may be Indian idea or interpretation of joint development which begs another question, what is in fact India's contribution to the project.

Next Akula-II is a nuclear attack submarine is leased to India and it is stipulated as a condition that maintenance will be borne by the Russian. It has no ballistic missile launch capability. All these happened before Modi came to power and court the US. Russia was watching with wary eyes on every India's moves. Apparently what happened did not inspired the confidence of either Russia nor USA.

And so for you to claim that USA will offer its F-22 to India is just an Indian nationalistic fanboy fantasy.

India could even afford to conclude the initial French Rafale deal they were boasting about, are now talking about acquiring USD 350 million per piece F-22 even if by a miracle the USA will allow India to have them.

That is laughable. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

We can talk about ground reality, when one pays a visit to the Capital of both these nations. I assure you, you will be shocked at the dichotomy of these two cities.

As I always opined. India is India and China is China.

Can't blame India as she has an economy only 1/5 that of China. India is not in the same league. So stop comparing and grouping India with the big boys or superpowers. This is the reality and India foreign policy sucks. Neither here nor there. Swaying with the wind.


Off course. We in ASEAN have offered consultancies as well as build airports, highways for India and some were on BOT contracts. Many believed that these are lucrative contracts until later on. The red tapes, local laws, different cultural or works ethics, etc Naturally there are so success stories as well although most of them believe they were take for a ride. Today some of these firms involved in these projects like highways are in deep shit as they are haul in by the local securities commission in their own countries being question for the discrepancies found in the accounts book on these projects albeit the delays, etc.
That's horrible. I cannot believe such country can still exist.
 
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That would changing in the future. you can see it, if you see closely China Military development in recent years.
China is So Powerful today, and they have Good Power Projection Power.

China, Pakistan, Russia, and Iran is alliances.
and if they have Common enemies, I am sure China will send somekind of Joint Ops. :-)

China is Unpredictable Country.
One week before Chinese Intervention in Korean War, if you ask American, 'there is any chance China send troops to help North Korea against us and allies?'

The answer is Big NO !!!
China just torn by 8 years war from Japan Aggresion and 4 years war in Civil war.
and they would not dare to fight against the strongest country in the world that time, who have Atomic Bomb, and the Winner of World War 2.

But History tell the other thing, Right? :-)
They Push back U.S Troops and Allies back to Pusan.

China is Unpredictable because they keep Low-Profile, even though they are already as Powerful today.
China is so Powerful today, no doubt.

And No One in here can Predict what China will do in the Future with their Powerful Military. :police:

History Never Lie.
Time will tell us.

The problem is, you cannot look beyond the epidermal layer of an alliance, then you may as well form an [Insert US Enemies here] Alliance.

In the next 10 years, China is going to be transitioning from developing country to developed country, and this rate, the international cooperation (Not just US but rest of the world) are very important. It cannot be said to a tune of the country like Iran and Kazakhstan, which they literally have nothing to lose, would China or Russia be actively antagonizing the West or US just because Iran or Uzbekistan or Kyrgyzstan wanted to express some of their frustration?

NATO only works because all their member are a responsible regional power and while they all face a common enemy - Russia, you will not see NATO asking Iraq or Jordan to join them, even tho both country were next to Turkey, a current NATO member. That's because if you have to form an alliance to a selective amount of country, you cannot do with some that are risky and being a wild card is not exactly what you are looking for as a Alliance material. What if Iran drag China into a proxy war with the US with the like of Turkey, Iraq or Saudi Arabia? There are nothing to gain for China, while nothing to lose with the US either. But if China refused to help, then it would shatter the credibility of said Alliance.

Another thing, History never lies, but you are wrong on the history bits.

China never went pass 20 Km south of Seoul during the Korean War. Strictly speaking, not further south of Imjin River. The Chinese involvement in Korean war after US/UN troop went all the way to the Yalu River, which bordering North Korea with China, then China intervene on behalf of the North.

North Korea had indeed push ROK Army into Pusan perimeter, but do bear in mind When the KPA force the ROK into Pusan Perimeter, the War is relatively new and there were simply not enough US/UN unit to defend the line, and only about 30,000 US troop (The number garrisoned in Japan) were in Korea at that time, facing 120,000 to 150,000 KPA troop. You cannot technically say US/UN were involve at that early stage. US/UN troop got into full strength at Nov 1950 at 400,000 troop, 2 months after the Inchon Landing.

Another aspect about Nuclear Weapon, China were under Soviet Nuclear Umbrella at that time, Truman was asked again and again by MacArthur to use Nuclear Weapon on China in 1951, he won't because it will almost certainly leads to Soviet retaliation. The US did not use nuclear weapon in Korean War not because China have some sort of magic that disallow them, but because of Soviet Union. Had the war begin 1 year earlier, where the Russian had not yet got the bomb, pretty sure Nuclear Weapon will be use in that sense.

thats what an alliance is, a group of countries. just becuase one country in an alliance does not like the decision of the rest of the group doesnt the rest have to simply stop and convice the reminder to get on board. think of it like this. syria. china like russia does not want assad to fall and see it in the hands of a nato controlled puppet government,like urkraine. it may not send ships, or jets or put boots on the groud, but it will help via iran and sending weapons to syria via russia and iran. also now that i think of it a group on the scale of nato is a bad idea for the reason of possible diagreements and possible internal bickering by a possible conflict between india and pakistan or anything else. i think a secret pact, which would be more suited as countries can be more flexible and would be seen less as a threat to other countries.

Well, if that is the case, it would not be in any sort of alliance, I don't see why China cannot send help directly to Assad without routing thru anyone. I mean even if China send weapon underground thru Iran, it does not actually construct anything other than their own perception we had already know.

The question about an alliance does not actually lies on India or Pakistan, but rather the smaller country would have use the Alliance to settle some score which directly or indirectly would drag other member into any unwanted fight, the purpose of an Alliance is to set up a defence on a common goal, I cannot see how the said alliance would have any sort of common ground. Some dislike US, some liked the US, some were neutral. And even China, per se, literally cannot afford to antagonize the west, particularly the US at this stage, unless the US have become an moot point on world stage, China basically cannot be hostile toward the US, at least openly. And when US reach that point being irreverent in world stage, the purpose of said alliance would have been gone completely. Hence there are basically of no use of said alliance. Beside some day dream scenario with some PDF member mind.
 
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Well, if that is the case, it would not be in any sort of alliance, I don't see why China cannot send help directly to Assad without routing thru anyone. I mean even if China send weapon underground thru Iran, it does not actually construct anything other than their own perception we had already know.

The question about an alliance does not actually lies on India or Pakistan, but rather the smaller country would have use the Alliance to settle some score which directly or indirectly would drag other member into any unwanted fight, the purpose of an Alliance is to set up a defence on a common goal, I cannot see how the said alliance would have any sort of common ground. Some dislike US, some liked the US, some were neutral. And even China, per se, literally cannot afford to antagonize the west, particularly the US at this stage, unless the US have become an moot point on world stage, China basically cannot be hostile toward the US, at least openly. And when US reach that point being irreverent in world stage, the purpose of said alliance would have been gone completely. Hence there are basically of no use of said alliance. Beside some day dream scenario with some PDF member mind.
thats what they (ISIS) want to get china involved. this gives isis the ability to try recruit chinese muslims. and it would be quiet easy. as terrorists only do such acts as they are poor and un employed. and the western part of china is also one of the poorest. once isis get some foot hold there it woul create chaos. remember neighbouring muslims countries are over run by them uzbekistan is a good example. china is doing it quietly so that isis wont be able to recruiting/influencing there.

well the sco is made upof mostly ex soviet states in central asia and most of them have no business with the west or the usa. most of their business comes from russia and china. although the cpec corridor will open the world to them. and this is good, as one of the key to create a peacefull world is to make people prosper. once people are prosperous why fall for following mutated views of some thing that claims to be religious.
 
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