My definition of secularism is simple, India first, Narendra Modi tells ove

[KRAIT]

Not ONE single person had mentioned riots in this thread until YOU brought up the topic. And then you will whine that people attack Modi on riots.I am surprised that you, as an Indian, don't know that the vast majority beneficiaries of reservations in India are Hindus, not the evil Mooslims.Reservation in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaYou need to park your obsession with Muslims and return to reality.

Listen, the thread is about Modi and Secularism. You don't know what's the debate on Indian media, among Moi and Anti-Modi, and this debate is going on so many threads Its a damn important for us to discuss this issue.

Better know about Indian politics and the ground reality. I know you hate Modi, but remember it was Congress and pseudo-secular parties that divided your nation in 1971. And RAW has been active most of the time during non-BJP rule except IK and PVN rule.

So if you want to address how 2014 decision will affect Pakistan, then go for it. Stop passing judgmental comment.

As for reservation, read all my posts. I also said reservation on basis of Caste and Religion is wrong. I want reservation on basis of earning and economic distribution.

So no need to play leader of Muslims; of India advocate. If you don't know about ground realities, its better not to comment.

This debate is going on Nation-wide and its not only me, but other posters who are against Modi in so many threads.

Read all my posts, I don't say Modi is Messiah, I say his politics is good for nation as it will make other parties to do politics on development.

If I don't want Congress to play politician Minorities, I don't want BJP to fight election over Ram Mandir.

 

[KS]

I am sick of people fighting for Muslims only, when 300 Hindus were also killed. .

The talks about Guj riots is kept alive not because of any angelic love for Muslims or human rights or secularism.

its a perverse, cynical political move to keep reminding the muslims what is in store for them, to implant and maintain the siege mentality into them, to herd them into vote-generating flocks and make them mass-vote on that election day.

It was KS who sees Congress and BJP as the only alternatives for him.

haan ji..UPA and NDA are the only two alternatives available to us today...

I would rather vote for a party which cannot even think of forming central government.

Why would you even do that ? Whyyyyyyyy

Havent we seen perverse coalition politics already messing up the system..

 

[KS]

"India First", however, is possible without the minority support. Hence, an asymmetrical power sharing arrangement, such as this, would further alienate the minorities. .

See I keep saying this, such assertion from you, that India first even needs support from the minorities gives a view that right now minorities dont support that. It sends a very wrong message. Isnt it taken for granted that any Indian, minority or majority is expected to consider India first.

Honestly, I am astounded at the level of paranoia around Modi. He says a simple, we should all consider india first above our idealogies and people are twisting it and finding fault with even that, something that is taken as granted and is the basis of modern nation states. This is also why I prefer he does not open his mouth about 2002 riots.Anything he says will be twisted and used against him.

 

[KS]

I
However, what is not in consonance with the idea of democracy is drawing the line distinguishing the majority from the minority along - religious lines.

Funny you should say that - the very concept of majority and minority is institutionalized and demarcated by our "secular" politics and actually any attempt to erase that line/divide is decried as harming he minority identity (such as Uniform civil code).

The concept of majority an minority needs to go. Everyone is ultimately a minority on his/her individual level.

And no. Nowhere have I sought to propose that Muslims and Christians hold their religious identity on higher pedestal than the national identity.

Your posts about 'india first' alienating the muslims and xtian gives precisely that idea. Maybe an honest mistake on your part, but that is the impression one gets reading that.

But one would assume that they would not back a skewed power-sharing formula that offers little assurance about being heard, especially coming from a persona non grata.

What is the skewed power sharing formula ? Do they want separate electorates , any reserved seats..what is the power sharing you are talking about ?

I dont even see any power sharing formula here, let alone skewed. Every one's primary allegiance is towards the nation. Simple and sweet.

His power sharing formula, where "India First" necessarily includes the majority but does not necessarily include the minority, could theoretically allow anti-minority policies, as long as the majority grants its approval

Interesting.

Can you point out where exactly he said that..or is this one of your own interpretation of what he might have meant ?

If its the former, then that is a serious issue, if its the latter..dont bother..we dont have a shortage of Modi-baiters who imagine things about him.

 

[Developereo]

Listen, the thread is about Modi and Secularism.

You keep complaining that people drag Gujarat riots into every thread about Modi, and here you are doing the exact same thing. There was not one single mention of riots in this thread until you mentioned them.

As for reservation, read all my posts. I also said reservation on basis of Caste and Religion is wrong.

Nonsense.

This is your exact quote: "a Dalit asks what is my fault that I belong to majority".

You are giving the impression that dalits are being victimized by Congress' attention to Muslims. Yes, you cover your tracks with the obligatory "no caste/religion" line but, time and again, the narrative returns to "Muslim vote bank" politics.

 

[KS]

You keep complaining that people drag Gujarat riots into every thread about Modi, and here you are doing the exact same thing. There was not one single mention of riots in this thread until you mentioned them.

Nonsense.

This is your exact quote: "a Dalit asks what is my fault that I belong to majority".

You are giving the impression that dalits are being victimized by Congress' attention to Muslims. Yes, you cover your tracks with the obligatory "no caste/religion" line but, time and again, the narrative returns to "Muslim vote bank" politics.

This topic does not concern you. So can you leave the ground for us to play this game ?

No its isnt nonsense..you need to have a basic idea of Indian politics to understand the context. Dont come up with this Islamo-insecurity everywhere.

 

[Developereo]

This topic does not concern you. So can you leave the ground for us to play this game ?

I will comment on the logical inconsistencies of people's position and all my comments are on topic.

If you cannot refute, feel free to pass by.

 

[KS]

I will comment on the logical inconsistencies of people's position.

If you cannot refute, feel free to pass by.

There is no logical inconsistency. You just dont know Indian politics to understand the consistency in light of the context.

So feel free to pass by indian political issues which you neither understand nor should be concerned about.

 

[KRAIT]

@Developereo May be you should reassess how to approach this issue. Go to various Indian newspaper websites and read comments of people, which you often do and cites it to present that as your argument about Indian's perspective.

As for Dalit and Muslim case, why you go after Muslims only, Sikhs, Jains, etc are Minorities too. Muslims are 14.5 % Sikhs are mere 2-3 %, so who should get more benefit if religoion is base of reservation.

I meant a Dalit represents the most oppressed and poor segment of Indian populace with high population which get no help from govt. or very little.

So I suggested Reservation based on income.

No matter whatever my caste and religion is, if a person earns much more than the poor living in village, he should get support even if he doesn't belongs to reserved class.

So better change your approach. Read all my posts first. Don't cherry pick and change the meaning,

 

[Developereo]

There is no logical inconsistency. You just dont know Indian politics to understand the consistency in light of the context.

So feel free to pass by indian political issues which you neither understand nor should be concerned about.

There is a glaring inconsistency.

The narrative, substantiated by the quote I copied, is that majority Hindus are being victimized by favorable policies towards Muslims when, in fact, the vast majority of government reservations favor Hindus, including dalits.

This Muslim bashing, euphemistically called 'vote bank politics' is central to Modi and BJP's election campaign.

Your own logical inconsistency was on display when you lauded Modi's actions towards dalit priests, calling it a welcome social move. A cynical interpretation would call it 'vote bank politics' which is the description used whenever government addresses the needs of Muslims.

I meant a Dalit represents the most oppressed and poor segment of Indian populace with high population which get no help from govt. or very little.

According to the wiki, the SC get the lion's share of government reservations. Is SC not the same as dalit?

 

[KS]

There is a glaring inconsistency.

The narrative, substantiated by the quote I copied, is that majority Hindus are being victimized by favorable policies towards Muslims when, in fact, the vast majority of government reservations favor Hindus, including dalits.

This Muslim bashing, euphemistically called 'vote bank politics' is central to Modi and BJP's election campaign.

You dont understand it nor do I expect you to understand.

As I said we are talking about Indian politics which dont make much sense to an outsider, much less to a guy who thinks Muslims are always being victimised.

Your own logical inconsistency was on display when you lauded Modi's actions towards dalit priests, calling it a welcome social move. A cynical interpretation would call it 'vote bank politics' which is the description used whenever government addresses the needs of Muslims.\

Meaningless analogy. The move for Dalits dont eat into anybody's pie or is a zero sum game. There was no robbing peter to pay paul. Its an intra-Hindu social move. Just dont argue for the sake of it when you dont know the A, B or C of Indian politics or even about reservations.

 

[KRAIT]

@Developereo Nope. A simple Google search can help.

Also you have been commenting on Dalits, which you don't even know.

Dalit is a designation for a group of people traditionally regarded as untouchable.

Dalits are a mixed population, consisting of numerous social groups from all over South Asia; they speak a variety of languages and practice a multitude of religions.

Dalit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[KS]

@Developereo Nope. A simple Google search can help.

Also you have been commenting on Dalits, which you don't even know.

Dalit is a designation for a group of people traditionally regarded as untouchable.

Dalits are a mixed population, consisting of numerous social groups from all over South Asia; they speak a variety of languages and practice a multitude of religions.

Dalit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He is baiting you and you are swallowing it.

 

[Developereo]

@Developereo Nope. A simple Google search can help.

Also you have been commenting on Dalits, which you don't even know.

Dalit is a designation for a group of people traditionally regarded as untouchable.

Dalits are a mixed population, consisting of numerous social groups from all over South Asia; they speak a variety of languages and practice a multitude of religions.

Dalit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From your own link,

The term Dalit has been interchangeably used with term Scheduled Castes, and these terms include all historically discriminated communities of India out-caste and Untouchables

Meaningless analogy. The move for Dalits dont eat into anybody's pie or is a zero sum game. There was no robbing peter to pay paul. Its an intra-Hindu social move. Just dont argue for the sake of it when you dont know the A, B or C of Indian politics or even about reservations.

Nonsense.

If a certain activity is reserved for dalits, it means others are automatically excluded, regardless of qualification or merit.

That is what Modi proposed, which is exactly what a reservation does, by any other name,

 

[priti]

sooch lo baad mai tum logo nai hi is ko bura bhala bolna hai

pehla try karo , uske baad judge karo.. bina try kie judge mat karna. so far in Guj has an A+ rating.