Muslims must save Islam from Islamists

[Irfan Baloch]

@Horus @Irfan Baloch

By trying to pin the Zionist angle on to Solomon, you are both classically deflecting and projecting.

Fact is, today, there is only one faith whose followers are creating mayhem all over the world. The typical defence of those like you (the so called liberals, moderates, whatever other label fits) is that these people do not represent Islam.

Well, that is for YOU guys to sort out AMONGST YOURSELVES. Who represents what. They (the lunatic fringe) believe even more strongly than you (the liberals, moderates) that YOU do not represent Islam.

Frankly, we (non-muslims) are really not interested. Just please do not keep killing people. Because you are turning every faith away from you.

You know what is most alarming, disappointing, depressing, and at the same time, illuminating. EVERY Muslim I have spoken to in the past few days (educated all) has first condemned the killing. BUT there is always a BUT that follows .....

There is NO BUT guys. Period. If they abuse you or your prophet or your holy book or whatever, even so, THERE IS NO BUT for taking a gun and shooting people, or strapping explosives to your chest and blowing yourself up in a marketplace.

That is what is lost on the entire Muslim community. It is your prophet, your book, your faith. IT MEANS NOTHING TO OTHERS.

Thanks for your post

 

[doppelganger]

Thanks for your post

Come on man. Is that all you are going to add or respond?

Have you conveniently dubbed me Islamophobe now for speaking out?

The BUT phenomenon is strong in your community. Speak out against it.

 

[Paksanity]

Yes, in the Washington, D.C. area. Grew up with diplomats as neighbors - including Pakistani/Bangladeshi ones.

What's up with media in West? It is as if they trying to build a confrontation. I happened to listen to Mr Fareed Zakaria on CNN. I was shocked at how blatantly he would lie and drag Pakistan into Paris killings. He went on to claim that Muslim country leaders have not condemned this attack especially countries like Pakistan. He mentioned Pakistan 3 or maybe more times. Contrary to his claims Pakistan condemned this attack on official level. Please refer to Spokesperson of Foreign Office statement on this matter. How can CNN do this to American public? If you keep doing it, this will cause more issues. When hateful sentiments on both societies have risen, you got a lot more recruits for ISIS and Al Qaeda especially from Western societies.

Don't you think they should at least be honest if not playing positive?

 

[Red Spinifex]

But can moderate Moslems save Islam from the fanatics?

The attack on the Pakistan Army's school in the military cantonment in Peshawar was also an attack on any attempt to modernise Islamic beliefs and practices (as described in Tarek Fatah's article below) and to keep Islam in the 7th century, where the jihadists and Islamists live and where they want to keep Islam and the world's Moslems.

Isn't even Jinnah, the founder of the modern Pakistani state, condemned by the jihadists and the Islamists as a traitor to Islam for his more secular approach and vision for Pakistan?

Is it a case of too little, too late?

Muslims must save Islam from Islamists

BY TAREK FATAH, TORONTO SUN
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 16, 2014 09:00 PM EST

It seems there is no respite for the ordinary Muslim.

Barely a day goes by when news of fresh atrocities by our co-religionists isn’t in the headlines.

Most of the world’s billion-plus Muslims wouldn’t dream of killing in the name of Islam, but enough do to form a critical mass that has put us on a collision course with the rest of humanity.

The Sydney siege by an ISIS-inspired jihadist had barely ended when the horrific news of a Taliban massacre killing 140 children at a Pakistani school shocked the world.

It took place at an “Army Public School”, inside a Pakistan cantonment on the edges of Peshawar.

Many of the students who attended this elite school were the sons and daughters of Pakistan army officers.

Ironically, the Taliban barbarians who killed these children were a creation of the Pakistan military, aimed at controlling neighbouring Afghanistan as a satellite state.

Why did the Taliban strike at a military school?

Could it be retaliation for the recent Pakistan army campaign to expel the Taliban out of Pakistan and into Afghanistan?

That may be one reason.

But knowing the workings of the worldwide jihadist terror movement and the Islamists who sow its seeds in Islamic countries and the West, there is another:

That is, the Islamist’s rejection of Western-style education systems.

The school attacked had boys and girls attending classes in what is referred to as a co-educational “English-medium” school.

The boys, smartly dressed in green blazers, white shorts and green neckties, reflect everything the Islamists despise.

And to be in the company of teenaged girls being educated at the same school would be seen as the worst of sins by those who promote Islamism, not just in Islamic countries but in Canada.

I suggest this is the “Boko Haramization” of the Pakistani jihadist movement that proclaims “western education is ‘Haraam’ (sinful)”.

Not that the Taliban have any tolerance for educating girls —Nobel Peace Prize winner Malala Yousafzai being one their early victims — but this attack appears to have been aimed largely at teenaged boys.

Last month, Zahid Askani, an American-educated Baloch who ran a co-educational school, where boys and girls studied English and wore western-style jackets and neckties, was assassinated by suspected jihadist death squads with the reported backing of the military.

Massacres are not new to Pakistan, or its military.

In the last few years Pakistan’s army intelligence wing has reportedly abducted and killed hundreds of students in the Baloch Students Organization (BSO) in Balochistan who support an indigenous independence movement.

Just a day after an ISIS-sympathizer took hostages in Sydney, Australia, leading to his own death and that of two innocent civilians, the tragedy of Peshawar provides another opportunity for Muslims to recognize we have a serious problem that only we can correct.

Muslims who claim the actions of the Taliban or ISIS are not Islamic must match this rhetoric by coming together and calling for a strict separation between Islam and politics.

They must renounce armed jihad as unfit for our age.

If they don’t, we will all be tarred by the actions of those who kill in the name of Islam and Allah.

The hashtag on Twitter by an Australian woman expressing solidarity with Muslims, #Illridewithyou, may please us, but it will not save us from the proverbial Dante’s Inferno.

Only we can do that, no one else.

 

[Dalit]

Most certainly, but let's not pretend that this crisis can solely be resolved by putting the entire blame as well as responsibility on the average Muslim. The root causes of these problems are deep-rooted and the West too has a big responsibility. We all have a hand in creating this monster. Some bitter truth and suggestions as follows:

Firstly, the West needs to stop applying double standards by supporting groups and individuals who they deem as assets in their wars abroad. Case in example are Syria and Iraq. The West needs to stop applying double standards by turning a blind eye to their disgruntled i.e. radicalised youth waging "holy wars" in Syria and elsewhere. It's unacceptable that the youth isn't detained when joining wars in foreign conflict zones. It's either an intelligence failure or a deliberate attempt to meddle in the affairs of nations tangled in wars and conflicts. The disgruntled youth need proper counselling and all the support they can get to become normal human beings. The example at hand are the two brothers of the massacre of Paris. These were average kids who were raised by foster parents. They were radicalised on the streets of Paris and no where else. The intelligence agencies know who the recruiters are. Yet, these radical preachers can freely roam the streets in many Western capitals. How can this be possible? Also, the West (particularly the EU) needs to have a more balanced approach in conflicts around the world. The US has lost its moral authority in this particularity area. Thankfully, this is already happening in the conflict between Palestine and Israel. The bitter truth is that much of the frustration and anger is due to unresolved conflicts and wars around the world. Last but not least, the West needs to stop turning a blind eye to countries which are financially and morally supporting a perverse ideology. This isn't a religion, but an evil ideology. These countries are the friends of many Western capitals.

Muslims living in the West need to be as cooperative as possible with the concerned authorities. Parents should keep an eye on their children and report suspicious activity. Mosques too need to report suspicious activity against hate preachers. The ideology of intolerance can only be defeated if both sides cooperate sincerely. Blame games and offensive cartoons aren't going to achieve anything. Dialogue is the way forward. Dialogue will lead to understanding and tolerance towards each other. There's no harm in having a difference of opinion. It's a matter of tolerance and acceptance towards each other.

 

[niaz]

Current problems have arisen primarily due to Saudi Arabian inspired interpretation that is rooted in the Middle Ages because of the elimination of “Ijtehad” from the main stream Sunni Islam after the fall of Baghdad in the 13th Century. Thus you see Boko Haram who ban girls from going to school, in Saudi Arabia there are no cinemas and women are banned from driving etc and Takfiris who behead Shia & Kurdish prisoners.

Answer to the question, can moderate Muslims save Islam from Islamists? is “NO”. All moderates can do is to stem the tide of Dark Age interpretation of Islam thru the pen, verbal discourse and fighting force with force

According to my understanding, Ijtehad is the process of interpretation of the Quran & Sunnah to the resolution of problems, situations and the questions as they come with the changing circumstances. Ijtehad was an important tool for the Muslims to adapt to the changing world and it is the responsibility of the Ulema to re-introduce it to enable Muslim countries to compete in the modern world.

Islam is a divine religion and it will survive till end of time. However Muslims would remain down trodden if the majority prefer to live in the dark ages.

 

[coffee_cup]

As the famous german philosph Nietzsche said:" the radical muslim will cut off your head, while the moderate muslim will hold your feet" I dont see muslims fighting against this. I see no reformation, no selfreflection.

Lieber MarkusS aka Mussulini fanboy, provide us a reference where Nietzsche says what you are associating with him, or stop your foolish propaganda.

In the meanwhile enjoy what Nietzsche writes in "Anti Christ " ( written in 19th century) about Christians:

Chapter 60:

"Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (--I do not say by what sort of feet--) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin--because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life! . . . The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust--a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very "senile."--What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich. . .

 

[Solomon2]

What's up with media in West? It is as if they trying to build a confrontation. I happened to listen to Mr Fareed Zakaria on CNN -

Freedom of the press and all. If you dispute the accuracy you can write them and if they persist switch channels. Other than business coverage I don't think I've watched CNN for years.

 

[Paksanity]

@Solomon2

My concern is what they are feeding to American public and shaping their perception by selective journalism. They will drive a wedge so deep that ISIS and Al Qaeda will have no trouble finding marginalized young men as recruits. I'm not sure if they realize the long time consequences of their actions.

I am not denying that Pakistan has problems, but projection of an entire evil society is not in US interests either. Whatever happened to honest journalism is entirely a different matter.

 

[RescueRanger]

Lieber MarkusS aka Mussulini fanboy, provide us a reference where Nietzsche says what you are associating with him, or stop your foolish propaganda.

In the meanwhile enjoy what Nietzsche writes in "Anti Christ " ( written in 19th century) about Christians:

Chapter 60:

"Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (--I do not say by what sort of feet--) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin--because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life! . . . The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust--a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very "senile."--What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich. . .

Don't believe a word he has said, he is a mixed race fool who has a very large "superiority" complex of sorts. kind of like a mixed race black child shouting "white power". I would not pay him heed. I will just leave this one translated work from The AntiChrist translated by H.L mencken:
Nietzsche on Islam – Bookwright

 

[syedali73]

Ijtehad was an important tool for the Muslims to adapt to the changing world and it is the responsibility of the Ulema to re-introduce it to enable Muslim countries to compete in the modern world.

Why the so-called Ulema? Why not me and you? Why we want to leave theological/religious matters on others and literally insist on receiving 2nd or even 3rd hand knowledge? Would I leave my Bank/financial -related matters on someone else, even on my wife? Arabic is not a dead language (unlike Hebrew, which Jews managed to revive, or Sanskrit that Hindus are actively reviving); cant we spend little time learning it so we could understand first-hand what is in Quran? Islam has never encouraged religious hierarchy, such as the one we see in Christianity or Judaism or in other religions for that matter, instead encouraged Muslims to gain the knowledge of religion. Our problems aggravated from the time we left everything on the mullah. Until few decades ago, Mullah was suppose to do pretty much three things, i.e. to lead jummah and regular prayers, conduct nikkah, and lead jenazah prayers. It is our laziness that has made mullah, who used to perform pretty insignificant tasks previously, so powerful and influential.

 

[Farooq]

When the last time a Juice blow himself up in a crowded public place?

Did the sensation of being bent over for your masters make you overlook the death and destruction the "juice" caused in Gaza?

 

[niaz]

Why the so-called Ulema? Why not me and you? Why we want to leave theological/religious matters on others and literally insist on receiving 2nd or even 3rd hand knowledge? Would I leave my Bank/financial -related matters on someone else, even on my wife? Arabic is not a dead language (unlike Hebrew, which Jews managed to revive, or Sanskrit that Hindus are actively reviving); cant we spend little time learning it so we could understand first-hand what is in Quran? Islam has never encouraged religious hierarchy, such as the one we see in Christianity or Judaism or in other religions for that matter, instead encouraged Muslims to gain the knowledge of religion. Our problems aggravated from the time we left everything on the mullah. Until few decades ago, Mullah was suppose to do pretty much three things, i.e. to lead jummah and regular prayers, conduct nikkah, and lead jenazah prayers. It is our laziness that has made mullah, who used to perform pretty insignificant tasks previously, so powerful and influential.

Honourable Syedali73,

My clients listen to my advice on petroleum marketing & refining because they know that with more than 40 years’ experience, my opinion has value. Similarly when you need comments on defence matters, you would turn to a military professional and for medicine one would consult a doctor.

Ordinary mosque going public largely listens to and pays heed to what is preached from the pulpit of a mosque or to fatwa from a well-known scholar. Ordinary folks like you & I, with no religious credentials can shout till the kingdom come, Joe public will ignore it. It is true that Islam has no graded clergy, still a fatwa issued by a scholar from Jama’a Al Azhar carries more weight than one issued by a village mullah.

No other Muslim country except Turkey and possibly Malaysia can be counted as progressive. In my lifetime I have seen South Korea, Brazil, China & India leave Pakistan far behind in everything. Muslim countries have large land mass, large populations and some have enormous wealth but most still lag far behind Western countries. Only way forward for the Muslim Ummah is thru the Ulema coming out of their frog in the well mentality and playing their part.

Ijtehad is the need of the day and it would not come from you or me.

.

 

[TankMan]

Why the so-called Ulema? Why not me and you? Why we want to leave theological/religious matters on others and literally insist on receiving 2nd or even 3rd hand knowledge? Would I leave my Bank/financial -related matters on someone else, even on my wife? Arabic is not a dead language (unlike Hebrew, which Jews managed to revive, or Sanskrit that Hindus are actively reviving); cant we spend little time learning it so we could understand first-hand what is in Quran? Islam has never encouraged religious hierarchy, such as the one we see in Christianity or Judaism or in other religions for that matter, instead encouraged Muslims to gain the knowledge of religion. Our problems aggravated from the time we left everything on the mullah. Until few decades ago, Mullah was suppose to do pretty much three things, i.e. to lead jummah and regular prayers, conduct nikkah, and lead jenazah prayers. It is our laziness that has made mullah, who used to perform pretty insignificant tasks previously, so powerful and influential.

Honourable Syedali73,

My clients listen to my advice on petroleum marketing & refining because they know that with more than 40 years’ experience, my opinion has value. Similarly when you need comments on defence matters, you would turn to a military professional and for medicine one would consult a doctor.

Ordinary mosque going public largely listens to and pays heed to what is preached from the pulpit of a mosque or to fatwa from a well-known scholar. Ordinary folks like you & I, with no religious credentials can shout till the kingdom come, Joe public will ignore it. It is true that Islam has no graded clergy, still a fatwa issued by a scholar from Jama’a Al Azhar carries more weight than one issued by a village mullah.

No other Muslim country except Turkey and possibly Malaysia can be counted as progressive. In my lifetime I have seen South Korea, Brazil, China & India leave Pakistan far behind in everything. Muslim countries have large land mass, large populations and some have enormous wealth but most still lag far behind Western countries. Only way forward for the Muslim Ummah is thru the Ulema coming out of their frog in the well mentality and playing their part.

Ijtehad is the need of the day and it would not come from you or me.

.

Both of you have correct and important points, allow me to contribute a little here:

It is true that Islam does not encourage religious hierarchy at all and encourages people to gain knowledge themselves; however, it does not discourage the concept of having learned people either. There is nothing wrong with having ulema, as long as one does not raise them to the level of Prophets (astaghfirullah) - All ulema are humans and should be challenged on a regular basis.

I am very much and vocally in favor of people having knowledge themselves. But the fact is that the fields of Fiqh, Islamic jurisprudence and Islam in general are very, very vast - there is no way we can master them without devoting our life to them, i.e by making it our profession, which is exactly what ulema and molvis are supposed to be doing.

That is why I agree with @niaz here, we need to have decent ulema to help us solve our problems. After all, even if we focus on individual (Islamic) education for everyone, we will still need someone to actually educate them - they won't, in most occasions, do it on their own.

BUT - What we also need is people to start challenging the mullahs and molvis who propagate wrong things in the name of Islam and rejecting them, allowing for the (relatively rare) decent ulema to actually be productive instead of being dragged into Mullah antics.

 

[Solomon2]

BUT - What we also need is people to start challenging the mullahs and molvis who propagate wrong things in the name of Islam and rejecting them -

They'll just say, like Erdogan regarding the discovery of the Americas, that if you don't believe something they claim as fact IS fact then you aren't believing hard enough. The situation will continue until you elevate facts above bigotry, TankMan - for the religious-minded that means accepting that acknowledging unpleasant truths is of itself the superior act of worship of G-d, regardless of creed or religion.