Muslims leave France for ‘UAE dream’

[Cheetah786]

I hope same kind of so called Muslims leave Pakistan for middle east.

 

[bozorgmehr]

The measure of the successful integration of immigrants into their host countries shouldn't be a subjectively defined standard of cultural assimilation. It should be the level of adherence to the laws of the societies they live in.

People forget that secular modern western societies are built on the premise of rule of law. That's what allowed them to stop killing each other and start coexisting with their differences. Something that the Moslem world is far, far from being able to achieve.

If you start to selectively apply standards of cultural assimilation, you will be undermining those very same principles that have allowed these western societies to become pluralistic, tolerant and have the space for personal freedoms.

So assimilation and cultural uniformity is not what has allowed these societies to grow and blossom. A good case in point is the Jewish and orthodox Jewish communities across the western world, who are in my opinion as assimilated as any Bengali old man walking on the sidewalk in his lungi. Yet nobody complains about them and they are actually considered as productive and valuable members of society!

In fact, it's the very pluralistic nature of these societies and the confluence of different ideas that it generates, that has allowed them to keep an edge on the more orthodox societies, everywhere throughout the world.

The problem is that many of these immigrant communities are simply too educationally and mentally backward to grasp that concept and play the game and over time make the system more sensitive and amenable to their particular needs and wishes. Instead, what happens is that over time, due to their failure they start feeling rejected and alienated by their host country, and start looking for shortcuts and exits. Otherwise, I'm sure these peoples parents and grand parents didn't have such a negative view of their host country, when they first decided to immigrate.

 

[Hussein]

do algerians wear that dress or is he trying to appear emirati??

in France, since he is from there, only salafis are dressed like this (not only dress)

 

[Secur]

Yeah the ISIS bogey is a good excuse. But ground realities doesn't correlate to such BS. ISIS or other types of extremism is a direct consequence of liberal secular crusade (of which egalitarian france is a part) in the muslim world. Now they need some sort of an excuse to shut european muslims from voicing their opinions and ISIS is a good bogey. Western academics already debunked the "religion somehow responsible for radicalism" theory of islamophobes & liberal secular bigots:


"Extremism" does NOT cause terrorism - Islam21c

U will bomb and slaughter people in mass, keep a large chunk of your people in ghettos with systemic discrimination for decades and then whine abt "radicalism". Sounds pretty secular liberal way of using muslims as cannon-fodder to justify their hideous crimes.

Btw u keep on babbling abt muslims demanding western bigoted societies to change their culture? WHen did muslims show such whims & desires? How r muslims not tolerant to french culture? Does the majority ever require tolerance from the minority?
On the contrary i see westerners demanding muslims to change their ways and be nice slaves to them. Not to mention they lecture muslims in muslim countries to adopt their filthy liberal values to conform with the whims & desires of their resident liberal secular pets with muslim names.

Its always a bogey and a conspiracy of the West, infidels. Isn't it? Since when have Muslims ever learned to take responsibility for their own problems? The ground realities dictate that today its Pure muslims, Muslims need to be mostly fearful of. Look around you, its not people coming from outside to kill you, its the people within who have you as your enemy. Sectarianism, radicalism, extremism and civil war like conditions are the story of nearly every other Islamic country. And yet you people are most critical of secular west which at the very least, knows how to treat its citizens fairly and happens to act as a welfare state. Hypocrisy much?

Why cant you go two sentences without filthy this and bigotry that? Seriously whats wrong in talking in a civil manner? The French Govt has no policy of "keeping people in ghettos", last time I checked. That is the result of producing more kids than you can raise properly and then not getting them enough education to compete in the modern world, achieve upward social mobility. A large number of other Muslims are living a good life in the same France, aren't they? Middle income group, not the ghetto variety involved in all sorts of crimes and recently opiate of the masses. I don't keep on babbling, as it happens you are stuck in your tiny world while refusing to see whats happening in Europe with Shariah patrols and calls for Islamic law to be implemented. If Muslims aren't content with freedom of speech or freedom or the non alignment of religion with state itself granted by the secular, then don't again I repeat for the nth time, get out and live in blissful Islamic lands where there wont be any such things, where it is considered fine to take law in your hands in the name of religion. The majority does require tolerance from minority to continue tolerating them, always. Its not a one-way street, abuse the land you are in and then expect the people there to treat you rightly. Wonderful. Be slaves? What exact sermon or pamphlet or website have you been pondering at?

Educate yourself: Europe: "You Are Entering a Sharia Controlled Zone"
Inside France’s Sharia No-Go Zones - Freedom Outpost

I bet that you cant even differentiate between secular and liberal, like a lot of others I meet, you haven't an iota of idea that both are different.

 

[jamahir]

Educate yourself: Europe: "You Are Entering a Sharia Controlled Zone"

from that link, mention of spain...

In one case, nine Salafists kidnapped a woman in Reus, tried her for adultery based on Sharia law, and condemned her to death. The woman just barely escaped execution by fleeing to a local police station.

In another case, a Salafi imam in Tarragona was arrested for forcing a 31-year-old Moroccan woman to wear a hijab head covering. The imam had threatened to burn down the woman's house for being and "infidel" because she works outside of the home, drives an automobile and has non-Muslim friends.

insane... when did spain turn into talibaniya in the first case or india in the second case??

in the old days, iraq or libya would have sent "cleaning squads" to deal with these mullahs.

 

[indianBong]

Luffy, give it a rest. Go join ISIS. Your drivel doesn't have any customers.

He is the member of sleeper cell of ISIS...

 

[Luffy 500]

Its always a bogey and a conspiracy of the West, infidels. Isn't it? Since when have Muslims ever learned to take responsibility for their own problems? The ground realities dictate that today its Pure muslims, Muslims need to be mostly fearful of. Look around you, its not people coming from outside to kill you, its the people within who have you as your enemy. Sectarianism, radicalism, extremism and civil war like conditions are the story of nearly every other Islamic country. And yet you people are most critical of secular west which at the very least, knows how to treat its citizens fairly and happens to act as a welfare state. Hypocrisy much?

The fact that u consider "pure muslims" AKA muslims as some sort of criminals to be fearful off, shows your political bias based on inferiority complex vis-vis anything western. Typical of a intellectually colonized secular liberal .

More people in the west die due to non-muslims acts of violence & crimes than by people who happen to be muslims. EDL type loons need to take a heed from u abt how to hate muslims. Did u read the link i gave in my post?

Why cant you go two sentences without filthy this and bigotry that? Seriously whats wrong in talking in a civil manner? The French Govt has no policy of "keeping people in ghettos", last time I checked. That is the result of producing more kids than you can raise properly and then not getting them enough education to compete in the modern world, achieve upward social mobility. A large number of other Muslims are living a good life in the same France, aren't they? Middle income group, not the ghetto variety involved in all sorts of crimes and recently opiate of the masses. I don't keep on babbling, as it happens you are stuck in your tiny world while refusing to see whats happening in Europe with Shariah patrols and calls for Islamic law to be implemented. If Muslims aren't content with freedom of speech or freedom or the non alignment of religion with state itself granted by the secular, then don't again I repeat for the nth time, get out and live in blissful Islamic lands where there wont be any such things, where it is considered fine to take law in your hands in the name of religion. The majority does require tolerance from minority to continue tolerating them, always. Its not a one-way street, abuse the land you are in and then expect the people there to treat you rightly. Wonderful. Be slaves? What exact sermon or pamphlet or website have you been pondering at?

Educate yourself: Europe: "You Are Entering a Sharia Controlled Zone"
Inside France’s Sharia No-Go Zones - Freedom Outpost

Institutional discrimination of muslim in france is so well documented that not even racist islamophobes bother to defend it like u r doing. Your link in previous itself shows what french bigots think of muslims. How many laws criminalizing islam & muslims have been passed in france since 9/11 ? UK is still doing catch up. 60 % of prison pop. in france r muslims. Discrimination from job, to education to health care is too blatant to leave any room for denial:

Stanford study shows Muslim job discrimination in France

And what is the % of muslims who form "sharia no-go zones" ? And how is it a problem with muslims and not just a basic law & order situation where french nincompoop police r either too inept to enforce the law or really devious , portraying muslim community as the problem in line with their duplicitous state policy of criminalizing Islam and practicing muslims.

I bet that you cant even differentiate between secular and liberal, like a lot of others I meet, you haven't an iota of idea that both are different.

Oh i know what it is alright. Liberalism , a european religion formed by 17th european philosophers based on their unique experience with a paganized/romanized Christianity. The new way of life centered around contradictory beliefs of "individualism" AKA where the human "individual" is "supreme" and his basic hedonistic materialistic desires must be full filled by the state and a secular government that is required to organize a society of this "supreme" human "individuals". Religion is thrown out the window in favor of arbitrary human (inherently flawed & contradictory) definitions of right & wrong which btw r decided by a majority of elite few of an animalistic society.

SO u see , i know what it actually is but i guess the problem lies in the fact that a intellectually colonized liberal secular "muslim" refuse to acknowledge what it actually is and goes for a pseudo definition , all the while thinking pure muslims r backward & lesser human and are criminals to be fearful off.

 

[Secur]

The fact that u consider "pure muslims" AKA muslims as some sort of criminals to be fearful off, shows your political bias based on inferiority complex vis-vis anything western. Typical of a intellectually colonized secular liberal .

More people in the west die due to non-muslims acts of violence & crimes than by people who happen to be muslims. EDL type loons need to take a heed from u abt how to hate muslims. Did u read the link i gave in my post?

Institutional discrimination of muslim in france is so well documented that not even racist islamophobes bother to defend it like u r doing. Your link in previous itself shows what french bigots think of muslims. How many laws criminalizing islam & muslims have been passed in france since 9/11 ? UK is still doing catch up. 60 % of prison pop. in france r muslims. Discrimination from job, to education to health care is too blatant to leave any room for denial:

Stanford study shows Muslim job discrimination in France

And what is the % of muslims who form "sharia no-go zones" ? And how is it a problem with muslims and not just a basic law & order situation where french nincompoop police r either too inept to enforce the law or really devious , portraying muslim community as the problem in line with their duplicitous state policy of criminalizing Islam and practicing muslims.

Oh i know what it is alright. Liberalism , a european religion formed by 17th european philosophers based on their unique experience with a paganized/romanized Christianity. The new way of life centered around contradictory beliefs of "individualism" AKA where the human "individual" is supreme and his basic hedonistic materialistic desires must be full filled by the state and a secular government that is required to organize a society of this supreme human "individuals". Religion is thrown out the window in favor of arbitrary human (inherently flawed & contradictory) definitions of right & wrong which btw r decided by a majority of elite few of an animalistic society.

SO u see , i know what it actually is but i guess the problem lies in the fact that a intellectually colonized liberal secular "muslim" refuse to acknowledge what it actually is and goes for a pseudo definition , all the while thinking pure muslims r backward & lesser human and are criminals to be fearful off.

Please quote me and we will continue when you get past your insults, you seem to be focused more on secular liberal bigots and colonized mindsets than a debate, for now I think I have answered your query about the whims and wishes of many Muslims and the intolerance to the native French culture. Paris is at fault but the real problem is the extremist mindset who think that they are in their own native lands and thus have the right to make any demand even its against the very base of the country they are living in. The discrimination in France has risen because of the same people, even if the majority doesn't wish to act like that, it takes a few to build a perception. And its never the Muslims fault, its always the west-state-infidels and in this case the police who have to be diverted responsibility to. How would creation of Sharia no-go zones would be a problem with Muslims? Rather its the police's incompetency, no worrying mindset at play here too, right?. Is it something even thinkable by non Muslims in Islamic countries? The whole world isn't your enemy, let go to the paranoia. The term pure Muslims, to clarify here, is no reference to a practicing Muslim rather a enforcing one, we have a lot too many here in Pakistan too. Liberalism and freedom to choose freely is bad but its fine to enforce a particular brand of religion upon others (and as it happens widely in Muslim world, on gun point). And well at the end of the day, it will be the same bigots offering you nationality and the benefits that come with it, your Arab brothers in arms ultra religious in nature will kick you the day, your purpose is served.

 

[syedali73]

Instead of banning people like me, focus on the 100+ Muslim fundamentalists that have turned defence.pk into an ISIS propaganda site. I wouldn't be shocked if three-dozen members on this site are on an FBI watch list.

This is some serious accusation. Care to list down the names of the members who spread ISIS propaganda on PDF?

 

[Luffy 500]

Please quote me and we will continue when you get past your insults, you seem to be focused more on secular liberal bigots and colonized mindsets than a debate, for now I think I have answered your query about the whims and wishes of many Muslims and the intolerance to the native French culture.

How did u prove the whims & wishes of many muslims and their alleged intolerance to french culture? How can a minority, already ghettoized, show intolerance to majority culture? DO u realize how ludicrous this whole notion is?

Paris is at fault but the real problem is the extremist mindset who think that they are in their own native lands and thus have the right to make any demand even its against the very base of the country they are living in. The discrimination in France has risen because of the same people, even if the majority doesn't wish to act like that, it takes a few to build a perception. And its never the Muslims fault, its always the west-state-infidels and in this case the police who have to be diverted responsibility to.

WHat did the muslims demand in France? The right to dress as they pleases in a liberal secular hell hole?


And what is an extremist mindset? Can it even be defined?


And it doesn't take a few to build a flawed perception of the community. It takes a concentrated media propaganda alongside a duplicitous state policies to make a bogey out of a community. It also imply to the fact that europeans and french in particular have a racist bigoted perception of non-europeans and muslims in particular.

How would creation of Sharia no-go zones would be a problem with Muslims? Rather its the police's incompetency, no worrying mindset at play here too, right?. Is it something even thinkable by non Muslims in Islamic countries? The whole world isn't your enemy, let go to the paranoia. The term pure Muslims, to clarify here, is no reference to a practicing Muslim rather a enforcing one, we have a lot too many here in Pakistan too.

I was saying shouldn't this much hyped and manier times alleged "sharia no-go zones" be considered as a law & order situation where french nincompoop police failed to arrest some people who happen to be muslims , breaking the law rather than making it global headlines. Or has it something to do with the western gov blueprint of showing muslims in a negative light to their gullible citizens with an already racist psyche.


Btw with the term pure muslims, u did wanted to connote practicing muslims with negativity.

Liberalism and freedom to choose freely is bad but its fine to enforce a particular brand of religion upon others (and as it happens widely in Muslim world, on gun point).

As i said people living in denial will go for a pseudo definition. What's new in it?


And most of the muslim world is liberal secular hell hole ruled according to european colonial laws remember? PAK & BD is no exception.

And well at the end of the day, it will be the same bigots offering you nationality and the benefits that come with it, your Arab brothers in arms ultra religious in nature will kick you the day, your purpose is served.

As usual coming out as an apologist of french bigotry.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

People can migrate/live wherever they want to and wherever they are welcome. The current day borders are all fictive and not natural.



If this French Algerian individual and his family were unhappy in France then they can easily leave. If UAE is sufficient for them then so be it. If they tomorrow would want to migrate to Mongolia then they can do that if that is a possibility.

If person x or y is not comfortable in country x or y and its laws/whatever he/she can always move. Simple as that.

@Luffy 500

The West has many positives but also negatives. The East the same. In fact you can say that about all countries and people. In the end we are all hypocrites that' for sure. Some bigger than others. It's a basic human trait. Follow whatever you are convinced of but don't try to impose that on others that disagree with you. Rather dialogue and reason should be the solution.

If you ask me honestly then the West, especially the more developed Western countries, are much more ahead of the Muslim world when it comes to social, political and personal rights. There can be no doubt about this. People who are working against those ideas/rights in a unlawful fashion have no place in such societies and should leave.

You can get a long way with openness and tolerance. Of course there are limits but that has been my philosophy and it has worked on most fields. That's why I admire Buddhists monks. In fact I saw a very interesting documentary about Buddhist monks in China but also in Russia (Kalmykia).

I was touched by their philosophy I have to say.

@Chinese-Dragon