Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables'

[STEELMAN]

^^^ LOL, you guys always run away from logical arguments.

what a Logic

U 2/2 I can understand ur problem u people can only think for quantity rather than quality

 

[Al-zakir]

So who are they? Why dont u enlight us instead of making empty statements?

They are Kafir because they have deviated from fundamental faith of Islam. They claim Mirza Ghulam Ahmed as prophet(nauzubillah).

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Who says you are a Muslim?

Quran and Hadees.

 

[asad71]

They are Kafir because they have deviated from fundamental faith of Islam. They claim Mirza Ghulam Ahmed as prophet(nauzubillah).

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Quran and Hadees.

Both subsects of Ahmadis, namely the Qadyianis ( Jamaa't e Ahmadiya) and the Lahorite ( Anjuman e Inshaat i Islma) are those kafiruns who turned away. It is enjoined on the Muslims to divest these deviators of life and property.

 

[Kalyugi Mirza]

LOL, India can't even handle Muslim anger when they are a minority of the population.

When they are around 40-50% of the population, that is when we will see either a new civil war and partition, or return to Muslim rule.

India is better than your Country..where at least people have freedom for most of the things but abt yours ?

 

[divya]

Muslims in India have a far higher birth rate than the Hindus in India.

One day soon, we will see a Muslim-majority India, who will not accept being ruled by Hindus.

Not a problem they can very contest the elections and win them. We dont had problem living under a muslim president either nor with the president right from kitchen.

 

[Darth Vader]

INDIAN MUSLIMS ARE DOING BETTER THEN PAKISTANI MUSLIMS YES SEE FOR YR SELF Destruction of Babari Masjid/Mosque: Ayodhya, India, 1992 (India's Al Aqsa) - YouTube THEY ARE JUST FEW OF THEM EXPCT Y CAN SEE IN THE VIDEO nnow y tell me who is better we have some problems wo dont have like india they have 35 states and 15 of they are fighting for freedom thats it for so called bigest demcry of the world LOL

 

[third eye]

INDIAN MUSLIMS ARE DOING BETTER THEN PAKISTANI MUSLIMS YES SEE FOR YR SELF Destruction of Babari Masjid/Mosque: Ayodhya, India, 1992 (India's Al Aqsa) - YouTube THEY ARE JUST FEW OF THEM EXPCT Y CAN SEE IN THE VIDEO nnow y tell me who is better we have some problems wo dont have like india they have 35 states and 15 of they are fighting for freedom thats it for so called bigest demcry of the world LOL

Can you pls list the15 states ' fighting for freedom" .

 

[Infinity]

Is that true?

Why don't you stop your Dance and visit from the home of dance to Gods own country.............You will see it

 

[nForce]

My present room mate is muslim.He should see this...

 

[Nitin Goyal]

My best friend is a Muslim. During our MBA we were roomies along with a senior person (A brahmin) who was more than a big bro to both of us. Infact the room was not allotted to him he had a different room but he lived with us. we used to go mosque and dargah with him and he also went to temple with us.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Opinion

Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables'

The condition of the country's Muslims has deteriorated, and the world has overlooked the nation's problems.

By Asra Q. Nomani

December 1, 2008

The news of the attacks in Mumbai eerily took me back to a quiet morning two years ago when I sat in Room 721 of the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower hotel, reading the morning newspaper, fearing just the kind of violence that has now exploded in the city of my birth. The headlines recounted how the socioeconomic condition of the people of my ancestry, Muslims in India, had fallen below that of the Hindu caste traditionally called "untouchables," according to a government report.

"Muslims are India's new untouchables," I said sadly to my mother, in the room with me. "India is going to explode if it doesn't take care of them." Now, indeed, alas it has. And shattered in the process is the myth of India's thriving secular democracy.

Mumbai police said over the weekend that the only gunman they'd captured during the attacks -- which left nearly 200 dead and more than 300 wounded -- claimed to belong to a Pakistani militant group. But even if the trouble was imported, the violence will most certainly turn a spotlight of suspicion on Muslims in India. Already, my relatives are hunkered down for a sectarian backlash they expect from anti-terrorism agencies, police and angry Hindu fundamentalists.

India, long championed as a model of pluralism, used to be an example of how Muslims can coexist and thrive even as a minority population. My extended family prospered as part of an educated, middle class. My parents, who settled in the United States in the 1960s when my father pursued a doctorate at Rutgers University, were part of India's successful diaspora. I love India, and on that trip, I wanted to show it off to my son, Shibli, then age 4.

But on that visit, across India from Mumbai to the southern state of Tamil Nadu and north to Lucknow, the hub of Muslim culture, I was deeply saddened. Talking to vegetable vendors, artisans and businessmen, I heard about how the condition of Muslims had deteriorated. They had become largely disenfranchised, poor, jobless and uneducated. Their tales echoed those I'd heard on previous trips, when my extended family recounted their humiliating experiences with bureaucratic, housing, job and educational discrimination.

Indeed, the government report I read about in the newspapers two years ago acknowledged that Muslims in India had become "backward." "Fearing for their security," the report said, "Muslims are increasingly resorting to living in ghettos around the country." Branding of Muslims as anti-national, terrorists and agents of Pakistan "has a depressing effect on their psyche," the report said, noting Muslims live in "a sense of despair and suspicion."

According to the report, produced by a committee led by a former Indian chief justice, Rajender Sachar, Muslims were now worse off than the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. Some 52% of Muslim men were unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. Among Muslim women, 91% were unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 couldn't read or write. While making up 11% of the population, Muslims accounted for 40% of India's prison population. Meanwhile, they held less than 5% of government jobs.

The Sachar committee report recommended creating a commission to remedy the systemic discrimination and promote affirmative-action programs. So far, very few of the recommendations have been put in place.

Since reading the report, I have feared that Islamic militancy would be born out of such despair. Even if last week's terrorist plot was hatched outside India, a cycle of sectarian violence could break out in the country and push some disenfranchised Muslim youth to join militant groups using hot-button issues like Israel and Kashmir as inspiration.

What has irked me these last years is how the world has glossed over India's problems. In 2006, for instance, former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen, whose Cohen Group invests heavily in India, said the U.S. and India were "perfect partners" because of their "multiethnic and secular democracies." When I asked to interview Cohen about the socioeconomic condition of Muslims, his public relations staffer said that conversation was too "in the weeds." But, to me, the condition of Muslims needs frank and open discussion if there is to be any hope of stemming Islamic radicalism and realizing true secular democracy in the country.

India's 150 million Muslims represent the second-largest Muslim population in the world, smaller only than Indonesia's 190 million Muslims. That is just bigger than Pakistan's 140 million Muslims or the entire population of Arab Muslims, which numbers about 140 million. U.S. intelligence reports continually warn that economic, social and political discontent are catalysts for radicalism, so we would be naive to continue to ignore this potential threat to the national security of not just India but the United States.

Throughout my 2006 journey, I found the idea of India's potential for danger unavoidable. On one leg, my son tucked safely in bed with my mother in our Taj hotel room, I went out to watch the filming of "A Mighty Heart," the movie about the murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl by Muslim militants in Pakistan. When the location scouts needed to replicate the treacherous streets of Karachi's militant Islamist culture, they didn't have to go far. They found the perfect spot in a poor Muslim neighborhood of Mumbai.

Asra Q. Nomani is the author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's Struggle for the Soul of Islam."

I duno the situation in UP but the author cant know about the tamil muslim populations in a few days visit....
Even during partition it was a prob between north hindus and muslims and southern muslims were not even heard..
There had not been a single communal clash in my state of tamil nadu and generally southern states...
They are well families but the prob is many muslim families dont allow girls to study or work and this creates a problem....
In north its still worse,...
They refuse to change to accept new ideas....
Change has to come from within...
Congress govt has been pro muslim and many benefits are given 4 them...
But its for them to make use of the oppurtunities given.....

 

[Nelson]

Oh yeah! After that incident Shahrukh could not get a single film, Rehman has no work since then, Wipro is shut down and all the Muslims are fired from their job. They are denied education and basic rights. Last I heard that all the Indian Muslims are thinking to move to Pakistan for a "peaceful" and "successful" life. All the best to all of them.

 

[53fd]

Why India's 150m Muslims are missing out on the country's rise:

GEORGE BUSH likes to point out that India has a vast Muslim population—the world's second-largest after Indonesia—yet not a single al-Qaeda member. Even if this is true, it is far from the only measure of well-being. According to more conventional ones, India's Muslims are faring terribly. They are disproportionately likely to be in prison, unemployed, illiterate and poor. India's economy is growing fast, but the gap between Muslims and other religious groups is widening. Headlines refer to Muslims as the new dalits—the group, once known as “untouchables”, at the bottom of the Hindu-caste heap.

That Muslims are lagging has been known for a while. But discussing why, or what to do about it, has been taboo in a country proud of its peculiarly religious brand of secularism. Mohammad Hamid Ansari, chairman of the National Commission for Minorities, says that his organisation ritually files an annual report showing how poorly India's Muslims are doing. Each year it somehow gets lost on its way to parliament.

That is why what is known as the Sachar report, after the former chief justice who chaired a government-appointed committee to investigate the condition of India's Muslims, is creating so much heat. And why it was tabled in parliament only on November 30th, weeks after it was finished and presented to the prime minister.

India's non-Muslims sometimes suggest that the troubles of their neighbours in prayer hats are self-inflicted: obscurantist imams who equate education with the rote-learning of the hadith, sayings attributed to the Prophet; four-wived husbands with more children than they can feed; and a lack of drive to better themselves, perhaps brought on by a nagging feeling that they would rather be in Muslim Pakistan. None of this is true; the last accusation is particularly unfair.

Madrassas such as the Darul-Uloom in Deoband, Uttar Pradesh, which proudly boasts of a curriculum largely unchanged since 1866, hardly equip their students to face the future, but only 3% of Muslim children attend them. Nor is it clear that the rulings of the orthodox, on anything from the evils of television to matters of family law, are obeyed. On polygamy, the most recent study (which is 30 years old) suggests that Muslim men are less likely than members of India's other religions to have a harem. And hardly any Indian Muslims hanker after life in Pakistan.

The problems faced by Muslims are in fact more prosaic. Not enough of them have jobs and too few can read or write. This is not new. But according to Abusaleh Shariff, an economist who compiled much of the data in the Sachar report, there are two areas where the gap between Muslims and the rest has widened dramatically over the past ten years or so. He says that both literacy rates for Muslim girls and poverty rates among urban Muslims show something close to a worsening even in absolute terms.

Part of the explanation for this phenomenon lies in where India's Muslims live. First, they often occupy the old parts of big cities like Delhi, not the fast-growing new suburbs where wealth is created and spent. Or they live in the slums. As a result, measured by monthly expenditure, over 40% of Muslims living in cities fall into the poorest quintile of the population, compared with 22% of Hindus.

Second, despite large Muslim populations in southern and western states such as Kerala, there are far more Muslims in the north and east of the country, which is poorer and less well governed. That in turn has an effect on their schooling. In rural Uttar Pradesh, India's most populous state and home to about one-fifth of its Muslims, only 30% of small towns have a primary school. For every kilometre a girl is from a school, her chances of attending it fall. In Kerala, where schooling is more plentiful, Muslim girls do well.

Poor schooling explains another of the report's findings, which is that Muslims fail to get jobs with the country's largest employer—the government. Some of this is plain discrimination, particularly where the more menial types of government work are concerned. But entry into the highest levels of government service is meritocratic, judged on exam papers written by anonymous students. The problem here is rather that too few Muslim students stay at school long enough to sit the exams.


Too easily appeased:

For the government of Manmohan Singh, the findings of the report offer a temptation. Indian politicians are fond of using quotas for minorities in everything from jobs to education to secure their political support. With the approach of a state election in Uttar Pradesh, due in the next few months, this will become more and more attractive. This would give the main opposition Bharatiya Janata Party yet another opportunity to accuse the government of pandering to minorities, especially Muslims. And the Supreme Court, which is so vigorous it sometimes seems to be running the country on its own, might object too, since India's constitution prohibits discrimination on religious grounds.

Many Muslims argue that they are better off helping themselves, rather than holding out for the government. In fact they often seem to fare worse where they have more political clout, which easily translates into unreliable token promises, for, say, an increase in the number of teachers literate in Urdu, the language of Indian Islam. The leaked figures on government jobs show that Muslims do better in Gujarat, scene of an anti-Muslim pogrom in 2002, than in Bihar, where governments depend on their votes.

“Muslims do well in education where the initiative rests with them,” says Mushirul Hasan, vice-chancellor of Jamia Milia Islamia University in Delhi. “Where they are dependent on government patronage they fare badly.” Muslim educational societies have begun to improve education in Kerala and the booming southern cities of Bengalooru (Bangalore) and Chennai (Madras). More are needed if Muslims are not to fall further behind as India prospers.

India's Muslims: Don't blame it on the scriptures | The Economist

 

[illusion8]

Indian muslims do lag behind to some extent, but its not because of any oppression from another religion. They are as much Indians as we are and all opportunities, doors and avenues are open to them. I think its high time they come out of their shell and progress as any other community in India does. Nobody in India is holding them back. India's constitution and law gives them as much freedom as any other Indian. There's only so much a country can do rest lies with the community. I think they should shun any move from within their community to get any preferential treatment and take their rightful place as a modern community in a developing India.

 

[thegreensprite]

Mr to be a Muslim you have to believe that HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW is the last and final PROPHET of ALLAH which Ahmedies don't do

Sorry buddy, you don't really know what makes a Muslim so please spare us with your feeble irrelevant opinions.

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Sir in Islam they are some basic tenats to believe in and those who don't are not Muslims and any Muslim kid can even tell you that

LOL... says someone who knows jack about Islam.