Muslim of China

[Desert Fox]

Here is a video of the Karakoram Highway from Kashgar, Xinjiang, China, to Northern Pakistan and Islamabad. The landscape is breathtaking, would enjoy a train ride from Northern Pakistan to Xinjiang.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXNcbd-yq-c

 

[get straight]

looks like mini taj mehal

 

[fly2012]

yes,many Tajiiks are blue eyed and have blond hair,Uyghurs look very different even within themselves,some of them are very blond,some of them look very much like Han Chinese.

A Uyghur girl

typical Uighurs should be like these girls in Urumqi

for more of those people's pics,check this link:http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/148643-chinas-mid-asia-xinjiang-uyghur-autonomous-region.html

Is the top girl really Uighur? Definetly looks Tajik or Russian to me. Bottom are Uighurs, no doubt.

Some of the Uighurs look like Han, for instance, the famous Uighur model, Gulnazar, in China:

 

[kalu_miah]

Well I admit I don't know the actually ground situations in Xinjiang, however looking at the pictures these innocent kids, and kids don't lie, they seem very happy and healthy to me. So I'm rather skeptical on the claims that China suppresses the Uighur population as a whole.

You should visit the place and talk to Uighurs, wonderful food and many interesting places to see, down south from Kashgar to north Altai city. I went there several times and I have some friends. This was 4-5 years back. They have some valid grievances. Before 1950's there was hardly 1-2% Han in that area, but a rail line was built and after that there was a steady Han migration, so Han percentage has now increased to 41%. So now majority Uighurs feel like they have become minority and foreigners in their own land. To top it off, the Han businesses naturally hire Han employee's, so their employment and economic situation is not so good. To get govt. jobs, they need to learn Chinese language, which is not their mother tongue, so mostly they are doing small business and farming. Also, when I was there, if young govt. employees were going for Friday prayers in the mosque, they were not getting promotion. I think the situation now is better than it was back then. I saw that a lot of business started to happen with Central Asia and Russia, and many Uighurs got involved in that. Its not a difficult problem to solve if the govt. could start an affirmative action program for education and employment like here in the USA for minorities. Wish we had a Uighur poster to give us real situation there now.

 

[fly2012]

This is a Kazakh girl, another Turkic Chinese muslim group in China:

热依扎·阿里木江 (cannot write in Kazakh letter)

 

[ephone]

China's religion policy protects believers and non-believers. You have the right to believe and you also have the right not to believe.

Basically, you can walk away from any religion that you have no passion for any more without being afraid of any harm or punishment.

I know buddists can do that and christian can do that as well in other part of the world.

How about muslims in those so-called muslim countries??? I think the answer is quite clear.

China tries her best to keep all religions at bay and is deeply suspicious of any type of religious movements by any religion.

So do not expect your religion to play any role in China's major matters.

my own opinion

general Chinese welcome all the Religions, there are Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Taoism and so on in China
about 100 million followers of religions, bcs we think the doctrines of most religions is to encourage people to perform good deeds and kindness, no religion encourage people to do bad thing or kill someone;

general Chinese don't care about other's religion, another interesting thing: one may be a follower of Buddhism but become a follower of Christianity several years later, he may change his religion to find one more suited to him.

and general Chinese give honor to all the religions images, there may be Taoist God of Wealth statue,Jesus portrait and Buddha in one family, Bible and the Koran stay together; Chinese will pray when we go to a church ,temple, Mosque or even Ancient Egyptian temple ruins and give honor to their statues, even he is a follower of another religon ; So we(including Chinese Catholics) are confused by Catholic and Christian, why they dislike each other?? Why followers of different religions dislike each other?? In China , Taoist priest and Monk often work together and travel together.

the reason why little number of Chinese being a Muslim, Islam has not a concrete image, as pics of Cross of Christ ,Buddha, and many gods Statue of Taoism. If Islam has a pic or statue of Mohammed in Mosque will be better. And Islam should improve with the time, Islam should be a system but not only one Koran, should have more interpretation and innovation; Buddhism and Christianity improved themselves many times ,and have more new life; no one understanding suilts all the time

more, my mother and my grandmother are Christian, but they only take the Worship as a party, they sing the song, read story in the Bible,chating and rehearse life drama program for show of the Spring Festival,this make them happy, and mothers don't care about Pope and cardinals, bcs there aren't them in Bible, belive Jesus is enough why listen to one named Pope, and they only choose the story which they think are right in Bible and don't belive all the things in Bible. I don't care about which religion my mother prefer to, she is happy and have relax when take part in the pray and I am happy


MY english teacher in middle school is a Hui muslim, here has a town of Hui in YUtai county Shandong province , we like him, three of my University teachers are Koreaner, we have 56 ethnics, my own experience,
Muslim Restaurant everywhere, all over the country, if you search "清真餐厅" means "Muslim Restaurant" in google, you will find 4,210,000 result Chinese sites ; if you search "中国清真寺" means "mosque of China" in google,you will find 4,190,000 Chinese sites

In Xinjiang, there are 9.4million muslims, 2000 mosques in 1978, but 24300 mosques now,about 400muslims/mosque
In Ningxia, there are 2.1million muslims, 3760mosques now, about 550muslims/mosque

20 million muslims in China, but the second largest number of mosques in world(more than 30000,about 40000),(first is Indonesia, 200million muslims and even 28478 only in East Java of Indonesia in 1992 )

the number of mosque in Xinjiang 6 times bigger than school
Xinjiang and Ningxia are the largest density for mosque all over the word

Iran 60million muslims, 5400 mosques , 11000muslims/mosque
Egypt 43million muslims, 17000 mosques, 2500muslims/mosque
Tunisia 7millionmuslims, only 650 mosques, 10770muslims/mosque
about 1000muslims/mosque in Middle east

So, I think that it's a waste to build new mosque in Xinjiang now, more schools are better, the best building in vallige is mosque but not school, in other place of China the best building is school; and Mosques compete for the follows now, and one or more crime related with mosque or nere mosque among 24300mosques is normal

 

[ephone]

Han percentage will be over 50% quite soon. Forget about the grievances and work harder.

You should visit the place and talk to Uighurs, wonderful food and many interesting places to see, down south from Kashgar to north Altai city. I went there several times and I have some friends. This was 4-5 years back. They have some valid grievances. Before 1950's there was hardly 1-2% Han in that area, but a rail line was built and after that there was a steady Han migration, so Han percentage has now increased to 41%. So now majority Uighurs feel like they have become minority and foreigners in their own land. To top it off, the Han businesses naturally hire Han employee's, so their employment and economic situation is not so good. To get govt. jobs, they need to learn Chinese language, which is not their mother tongue, so mostly they are doing small business and farming. Also, when I was there, if young govt. employees were going for Friday prayers in the mosque, they were not getting promotion. I think the situation now is better than it was back then. I saw that a lot of business started to happen with Central Asia and Russia, and many Uighurs got involved in that. Its not a difficult problem to solve if the govt. could start an affirmative action program for education and employment like here in the USA for minorities. Wish we had a Uighur poster to give us real situation there now.

 

[fly2012]

You should visit the place and talk to Uighurs, wonderful food and many interesting places to see, down south from Kashgar to north Altai city. I went there several times and I have some friends. This was 4-5 years back. They have some valid grievances. Before 1950's there was hardly 1-2% Han in that area, but a rail line was built and after that there was a steady Han migration to increase the Han percentage to 41%. So now majority Uighurs feel like they have become minority and foreigners in their own land. To top it off, the Han businesses naturally hire Han employee's, so their employment and economic situation is not so good. To get govt. jobs, they need to learn Chinese language, which is not their mother tongue, so mostly they are doing small business and farming. Also, when I was there, if young govt. employees were going for Friday prayers in the mosque, they were not getting promotion. I think the situation now is better than it was back then. I saw that a lot of business started to happen with Central Asia and Russia, and many Uighurs got involved in that. Its not a difficult problem to solve if the govt. could start an affirmative action program for education and employment like here in the USA for minorities. Wish we had a Uighur poster to give us real situation there now.

I think this is a fair analysis although north Xinjiang and south Xinjiang are very different. Economic situation is southern Xinjiang is far behind the northern part, and no surprise all extreme groups are from the southern part. It is government policy to preserve ethnic culture so Uighurs don't have to learn Chinese. In Xinjiang, there're 3 dedicated Uighure TV channels. The downside of this is that since most investment are from East China so companies in general want to hire people who can speak Chinese. This is a very different situation from countries like US and Turkey, where one official language is enforced. Personally I still think China's policy is better. And honestly I think forcing people to adopt one official language is real cultural genocide. So on this I don't think there's much to learn from US. One recently policy is to encourage double language learning (an up to 50 points bonus for colleage admission exams if minorities can speak both Chinese and their native language).

There're a lot of issues in Xinjiang, local corruption is another thing. In other part of China, people see local currupt officials as CCP oppression, but in Xinjiang, regular people see them as Han oppression (Althought these officials are Uighurs themselves). Western media like to use words like "genocide" and say how many Uighurs are butchered and often call these terrorists "free fighter" (check yesterday's media report on China's plane hijack), which so far I don't see any evidence even nowadays it is so easy to take pictures. Media sensationalism like this will not help the situation cause China won't bend to BS like this.

Central government has plans to make Kashgar an economic powerhouse but I actually don't have much confidence. The problem with Southern Xinjiang is that it doesn't have enough water and the city are far from any economic centers. It is cheaper to transport goods from US to Beijing than from Kashgar to Beijing.

 

[ephone]

"Mullah's preaching hatred and spouting death to "???

In China, we make sure that Mullah eat his words one by one. He will be lucky to walk out alive from labor camp.

@Xuxu1457

"And Islam should improve with the time, Islam should be a system but not only one Koran, should have more interpretation and innovation; Buddhism and Christianity improved themselves many times ,and have more new life; no one understanding suilts all the time"

I agree with you Islam needs to evolve.


"don't care about which religion my mother prefer to, she is happy and have relax when take part in the pray and I am happy"

You mean you are very liberal and don't kill another person like they do in Pakistan if they change religion or even think differant. Bravo to China.


"So, I think that it's a waste to build new mosque in Xinjiang now, more schools are better, the best building in vallige is mosque but not school, in other place of China the best building is school; and Mosques compete for the follows now, and one or more crime related with mosque or nere mosque among 24300mosques is normal"

You are lucky in China. In Pakistan new mosques grow like weeds. Schools we we don't bother with them. Crime? Well in Pakistan bombs explode often in mosques or more often than not the Mullah will preach his followers to go kill the blasphemers or toast the Ahmedi's. If not there is always the Christian's or America or the favourite 'Kill the Jews'.

SAFETY WARNING: If you do ever visit Pakistan please do not, please, say to anybody "its a waste to build mosques" unless you have a death wish. Instead throw a few Yuan and say " please you build Mosque" and watch how they will love you. If you insist on saying "waste" well before you have to time to finish your noodles they will have made noodles out of you.



Chinese government to manage all of the country's Muslims.

Good luck to China. In Pakistan the government dare not manage any mosque - You would need tanks to do that. Read up 'Lal Masjid' and you will find out.


"These past few years, after the huge changes that happened in the Muslim world, our country has enforced a 'management according to law' system, so that we do not have problems in our areas such as not being united or harmonious," said Lu.

You mean you do not want what has happened in Pakistan. Mullah's preaching hatred and spouting death to everybody, Jews, Americans, women not dressed properly [ that means anything less than a black cloak ], Shia Muslims, Ahmedi Muslims or anybody who dares to say anything that the Mullah's don't like. Examples:-

Killing Pakistani Hazara Shia Muslims - Hope fades away for Hazaras of Pakistan | DAWN.COM
Genocide of Hazaras - Ethnic Cleansing of Hazaras in Pakistan

And if you speak up for the weak Chrstian and your a Muslim even then your in trouble. Even if your a powerful Governor you will be killed by some bearded fanatic - BBC News - Punjab Governor Salman Taseer assassinated in Islamabad

You think Pakistan needs a bit of 'management'? If you agree, China can help please. After all those Pakistani Hazara do look similar to Chinese.


"government has a standard criterion to manage imams and Islamic students."

Impressive stuff. I can see why China is a great civilization. In Pakistan the only criterion we have is let any Mullah shout and preach anything he wants to which often includes sermons on killing, killing and more killing. The Mullahs even give religious decrees. For example a Mullah may give a fatwa - that what Xuxu has said is blasphemous to Islam and he can be killed. Expect 100s of Muslims to come after you. Ask Salman Rusdie what happened, he has been hiding for 25 years because he wrote a few thingsd in a book.

And in Pakistan the Imams tell what the government should do, not the other way around. Again read up about Lal Masjid operation and see what happened. Musharaf is still hated for that action for merely trying to 'manage' the Lal Masjid.


If you want to get a permit to become an imam, you need certification from the government. After you have that, you can go to a mosque and be an imam," said Ma.

In Pakistan you need to 1) Grow a beard. 2) Preach hatred. 3. Generally be against women's rights. 4) Show hatred for Ahmedi. 4) hate Jews and your a .... Mullah. There are a few Mullah's who are exceptions and preach peace and harmony. But the few are getting fewer because either they are being killed or are smart and fly away to another country. One example is Javed Ghamadi. He has had to run away to Malaysia for his own safety which I can understand. Had he stayed he would have been .... well killed.

Javed Ahmad Ghamidi Flees Pakistan

Another one of the few Mullah's who who try to preach peace and harmony was Sarfraz Naeemi, he is not with us anymore ........... because ...... well he was blown away. He beeeez very dead NOW !!!

Sarfraz Naeemi killed in suicide hit | The Nation


"Ma stresses that Huis are largely peaceable, despite a recent incident in which Hui villagers clashed with Ningxia authorities who tore down their newly-built mosque"

Bah !!! In Pakistan a powerful Mullah could build a Mosque illegally in a residential area and encroach on childrens play area at the back. On the front side he might encroach on to pavement ... so there is no pavement left for people to walk. On the right he might steal some of your garden and the government would be terrified of doing anything.

I have always been pro West but I think it is time I made a about turn and looked to China as inspiration. I would hope Chinese can teach Pakistani's how to 'manage' religion. I hope the Pakistani people not only buy Chinese J-10s but also learn some good lessons on how to build a good, stable and safe country. Chinese need to reach their Pakistani friends some very important lessons.

My tilt towards China comes at a good time. My soon to be wife [Pakistani] speaks fluent Chinese because she was brough up in Hong Kong. So I might decide to learn Chinese.

China-Pakistan Zindabad [ translation "Long Live" ]

*
#Correction: My soon to be sister in law.

China will continue to do whatever she has to do to keep the country at peace. We do not care the criminals are uyghurs or not, we make sure whoever preaches hatred and violence get the taste what he preaches for at first.

BTW, China has prospered for more than 30 years. You do not like China's policy??? Sorry for you. China has been the best developing example for the whole world.

About relation with Turkey, well, I think it is not China's problem but yours to think how to build a good relation with China.

As for religion, we do not want any foreign influences on any of our religions. So there is no need to give any advice for such matter if you do not want to be kicked out China right away.

Chinese have to stop the racial attacks on uyghur turks if they want to progress , they will prosper if there is equality with all people , i would want china to have better relations with Turks and turkey as they are close ally of our brother nation pakistan , but there is problems with turks , and the east turkistan movement or whatever should stop and not create a divison , but certainly there is problems which is why there is this east turkisan movement or something .

Ottoman architecture will be great for china - some mosques in different parts of turkey

 

[kalu_miah]

Han percentage will be over 50% quite soon. Forget about the grievances and work harder.

No one is talking about "splittism", so no need to be nervous about that, all intelligent Uighurs know this, only some not so bright people could believe that separatism will succeed. The real issue is jobs, economic opportunities and some cultural space. Uighurs and most other Turkic people are hard working people, not any less than Han.

 

[xuxu1457]

Most of Indonesians know this admiral Cheng Ho

Indonesia’s Cheng Ho Mosque
Indonesia’s Cheng Ho Mosque | Rehmat's World

Muhammad Cheng Ho Mosque (shown on top left), in Palembang, the Capital City of the Indonesian province of South Sumatra looks like a Chinese temple from outside and has fooled most local residents and foreign tourists since it was built between 2006 and 2008. The mosque is named after the great Chinese Admiral Zheng He (1371-1433), who introduced Islam into the area. The Admiral had visited the Palembang area four times between 1405 and 1433 CE. The mosque is built on 5,000 square meters and is similar in outlook to Muhammad Cheng Ho Mosque in Surabaya in Java province which was built in 2002.

The Palembang mosque is a two-storey structure with two minarets which mimic Chinese pagoda, painted in red and jade green. It was opened in August 2008 for daily prayers. Men pray on the first floor while ladies perform their religious ritual on the second floor. The mosqu, in addition to daily prayers, it hosts both religious and social activities and has become a tourist attraction for the visitors from Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan and even Russia.

Zheng He, born with name Ma and raised as Muslim, started to study the teachings of Islam at an early age. Both Zheng He’s father and grandfather had made the pilgrimage to Mecca, and so were quite familiar with distant lands. Under the influence of his father and grandfather, the young Zheng He developed a consuming curiosity about the outside world. Zheng He’s father’s direct character and altruistic nature also made a lasting impression on the boy. Zheng He was captured by Ming Dynasty forces during their military cleansing of the remnants of the Yuan Dynasty (1279-1368) in Yunnan, around 1381. He was taken to Nanjing, where he was castrated and entered into imperial service. He was then sent to Beiping (present-day Beijing) to serve in the palace of Zhu Di, the Prince of Yan, fourth son of the founding emperor of the Ming Dynasty.

After Zhu Di ascended the throne as the Yongle Emperor (1403-1424), he promoted Zheng He. In 1404, Zhu Di changed Zheng He’s surname from Ma to Zheng as an imperial honor and in recognition of Zheng He’s extraordinary military abilities and loyal service, the emperor chose him from among his most trusted advisors as the ideal commander for the great voyages westward.

Zheng He is China’s most famous maritime explorer. His extraordinary ability and vision found brilliant expression in the great achievements of his life, including maritime exploration, foreign diplomacy, and military affairs.

There are estimated to be 5-6 million Chinese ethnic population in Indonesia (total population over 220 million), who were treated harshly under the pro-American General Suharto (died 2008) military dictatorship (from 1967 to 1998).

 

[kalu_miah]

I think this is a fair analysis although north Xinjiang and south Xinjiang are very different. Economic situation is southern Xinjiang is far behind the northern part, and no surprise all extreme groups are from the southern part. It is government policy to preserve ethnic culture so Uighurs don't have to learn Chinese. In Xinjiang, there're 3 dedicated Uighure TV channels. The downside of this is that since most investment are from East China so companies in general want to hire people who can speak Chinese. This is a very different situation from countries like US and Turkey, where one official language is enforced. Personally I still think China's policy is better. And honestly I think forcing people to adopt one official language is real cultural genocide. So on this I don't think there's much to learn from US. One recently policy is to encourage double language learning (an up to 50 points bonus for colleage admission exams if minorities can speak both Chinese and their native language).

There're a lot of issues in Xinjiang, local corruption is another thing. In other part of China, people see local currupt officials as CCP oppression, but in Xinjiang, regular people see them as Han oppression (Althought these officials are Uighurs themselves). Western media like to use words like "genocide" and say how many Uighurs are butchered and often call these terrorists "free fighter" (check yesterday's media report on China's plane hijack), which so far I don't see any evidence even nowadays it is so easy to take pictures. Media sensationalism like this will not help the situation cause China won't bend to BS like this.

Central government has plans to make Kashgar an economic powerhouse but I actually don't have much confidence. The problem with Southern Xinjiang is that it doesn't have enough water and the city are far from any economic centers. It is cheaper to transport goods from US to Beijing than from Kashgar to Beijing.

I would pretty much agree with what you are saying. Uighur's should not create disturbances, but there are criminals in every country. I think you and I both understand that there is no official policy of repression going on, but considering the history of the place and Han's moving in so recently and dominating in all spheres, while Uighurs becoming kind of 2nd class, naturally creates some resentment. It is human nature. So govt. effort is needed to alleviate this situation, I believe. Improving economic situation of Uighurs would automatically improve Han-Uighur relations.

Urumqi is like Hong Kong or Kowloon, whereas Kashgar seems more similar to South Asia. Urumqi is becoming a great economic hub for Central Asia. Kashgar could become one for South Asia, but that Khunjerab pass is too high I heard and is covered with snow for some months, so not sure how much trade can happen here. I did see Pakistani traders walking around, so I am sure some trade is already going on.

 

[xuxu1457]

looks like mini taj mehal

It's the PARK OF CUSTOMS AND CULTURE IN THE HOMELAND OF CHINESE HUI PEOPLE
Ningxia Hui culture industry limited company- ??
Park of Customs and Culture in the Homeland of Chinese Hui People is established by Muslims and people who love Islamic culture with the supports of government. It is the only civilian-run and government-supported exhibition place for the culture and folk-custom of Chinese Hui people. The first phase covering an area of 300mu is planed as per the traditional Islamic architectures of the Chinese Hui people. There standing along the east-west midfield axis are the Unity Square, the main Gateway, the Purity Square, the Hui Museum, and the Folk Customs Village. There are multifunctional facilities at the both sides including water pool, prayer hall, entertainment hall (the Ayisha Palace), Muslim restaurants and shopping center. It can hold thousands of visitors for various entertainments, Islamic buildings, the Hui history and cultural relics, to feel the spirit and civilization of the Hui people. You can visit the grand prayer hall to learn about the Muslim ceremonials and the faith of the Hui people as well as the charm of mosque. You can go into the home of the villagers to see the wedding ceremony, banquet, and handicraft of the Hui people, and to learn the skills to make and perform the nonmaterial cultural heritage. When you feel tired, you can go into the cozy Ayisha Palace to enjoy the Hui and Arabia dances and songs as well as the delicious Muslim foods. You can also take pictures or buy some souvenirs before leaving.

　　The Park of Customs and Culture in the Homeland of Chinese Hui People full of originality, attraction and expectation is the home of the Hui people and Muslims all over the world. The Park of Customs and Culture in the Homeland of Chinese Hui People as a creative cultural and tourist industry is supported by everyone. The park is open now to welcome your visit.
AN AAAA National Scenic Area

Located at the center of the Hui Cultural Park, the Hui Museum is a beautiful building of the traditional Islamic architecture features. It is the support and essence of the park:

Golden etiquette hall IN THE PARK

Mansur Palace IN THE PARK

 

[fly2012]

I would pretty much agree with what you are saying. Uighur's should not create disturbances, but there are criminals in every country. I think you and I both understand that there is no official policy of repression going on, but considering the history of the place and Han's moving in so recently and dominating in all spheres, while Uighurs becoming kind of 2nd class, naturally creates some resentment. It is human nature. So govt. effort is needed to alleviate this situation, I believe. Improving economic situation of Uighurs would automatically improve Han-Uighur relations.

Urumqi is like Hong Kong or Kowloon, whereas Kashgar seems more similar to South Asia. Urumqi is becoming a great economic hub for Central Asia. Kashgar could become one for South Asia, but that Khunjerab pass is too high I heard and is covered with snow for some months, so not sure how much trade can happen here. I did see Pakistani traders walking around, so I am sure some trade is already going on.

I do agree with you. Uighur-Han relationship was actually much better before 1980s (Never heard of any troubles) when everyone was poor. It is the economic disparity that cause the problem and lead to some fundamentalism. This is fully understandable as you say it is just human nature. And government knows this as well therefore it wants to make Kashgar a second Shenzhen. I've personally met with some Uighurs in various occasions and they voiced some of the similar concerns. I think China should buy some Israel agrigation technologies to boost living conditions of poorest Uighurs living in Southern Xinjiang that lack water.

As to the Han dominance, although on paper it sounds that Uighurs are minorities in Xinjiang. In reality, most Hans are concentrated in a few major cities. Consider how large Xinjiang is, most of the places are still dominated by minorities.

 

[Holmes]

Some looks more like pakistani instead.