What's new

Muslim leaders in India rootless

they are Indians First....

And you going to decide this. A Muslim is Muslim first then Indian and all Muslims must believe in this. I am sure that most Muslims in India consider them self as part of Muslm Ummah before being just an Indian. They perform Hajj for a reason.
 
And you going to decide this. A Muslim is Muslim first then Indian and all Muslims must believe in this. I am sure that most Muslims in India consider them self as part of Muslm Ummah before being just an Indian. They perform Hajj for a reason.

Yes I am Deciding it , There are No Muslims, there are Only Indians In India.... They are Muslims after they are Indians..... Religion always comes second , atleast In India..... they have the Identity of an Indian, Not of a Muslim....

and Muslims in India have Different culture and Tradition when Compared to Any Other, which Makes them Culturally and Traditionally Indian.... So I have every Damn Rights to Call them Indians first Rather Muslims.... Understand?
 
Yes I am Deciding it , There are No Muslims, there are Only Indians In India.... They are Muslims after they are Indians..... Religion always comes second , atleast In India..... they have the Identity of an Indian, Not of a Muslim....

and Muslims in India have Different culture and Tradition when Compared to Any Other, which Makes them Culturally and Traditionally Indian.... So I have every Damn Rights to Call them Indians first Rather Muslims.... Understand?

I would like a comment on this post from a Muslim of India. A real one. Not the fake one though....:undecided:
 
Like all my Indian brothers, I see a leader as an Indian first and last, not as a Hindu or a Muslim or a Sikh or a Christian or a Parsi. This constant harping on "Muslim leadership" has strong undertones of vote bank politics played in some form or the other by all parties, though admittedly more by some historically. And we all know which party I am pointing to here.

The Hindus are too huge a population, and will never be united as a single vote bank playing to a religion card. Remember, India today is secular not because the Muslims want it, but because the Hindus do. Plain and simple, numbers matter. One only needs to look at what's happening next door to realise that.

That leaves the Muslim community with the baggage of religious identity issues fostered from the time of Partition when Pakistan was carved out for the Muslims. Those that remained behind, were sadly forever left holding that unwanted child, who nobody wants to acknowledge or allude to or look at or even give it a tangible identity ..... hoping it will magically go away.

The need of the hour today is not further drive a wedge between the Indian muslim community and the rest of India by pandering to this divisive segregationist ideology in the garb of "Muslim" leadership. By all means, like all communities, at a community level, at a socio-cultural level, at a religious level, there will be elders, key opinion leaders, luminaries who will guide the youngsters and work for the betterment of their community. But the muslims need to realise, as I believe they already have, that the betterment of the community is inextricably interwoven by inclusive ideologies and the betterment of the Indian society and nation as a whole.

The community will prosper when it leaves behind the baggage of religious identity exclusivity and rigidity at the altar of inclusive assimilation into the Indian mainstream. The community will prosper by throwing up leaders, doctors, engineers, lawyers, businessmen, teachers, social workers, and soldiers for India. By putting a greater emphasis on formal education for their kids. The muslims of India do not need muslim leaders to give them a political voice. The sad fact of the matter is that historically they have always had hindu leaders providing it for them in return for their block vote. With their so-called "leaders" going along, taking the entire community for a ride.

As long as the muslims do not see this, they will always feel different and in peril, and be made to feel as outsiders by the large overwhelming non-muslim majority of India who would resent this special treatment and the lack of perceived oneness with them.

I must tell you in ending that the early years of my boyhood were spent growing up in a predominantly Muslim area of Jamshedpur called Dhatkidih. Most of my earliest chaddi buddies with whom we used to play gully cricket were muslims. Even as a child I could pick up on the difference between the vibes of the parents of these kids towards me, a non-threatening and mostly inconsequential Parsi, versus some of the Hindu kids who would play with us.

Thankfully I see a lot less of that siege mentality amongst today's generation. But it would be naive to believe that everything is now hunky dory and its not there anymore. Its still there and it needs to be tackled first, for the muslim community to really prosper.

Cheers, Doc
 
I would like a comment on this post from a Muslim of India. A real one. Not the fake one though....:undecided:

If you dont get to hear what You want to hear, you would always Judge it as fake, its Not Only You, But the human Nature.... So How are we supposed to Convince You.... well My Sister is Married to a Muslim. before getting her married, we only thought of two thing if He can Speak our language and can he look after her through out her Life,Just Like any one else...

or do you want me to present the marriage certificate and All other Documents to make Your stand Strong??? If In that case I am Sorry You win...
 
The day the Muslim community in India gets over its "minority syndrome
'
.... the progress will be in leaps and bounds.


@doc: kya likhte ho miyan.... :cheers:
 
Last edited:
And you going to decide this. A Muslim is Muslim first then Indian and all Muslims must believe in this.
Lol. Well, wakey wakey, they DONT! What a pity, eh?
I am sure that most Muslims in India consider them self as part of Muslm Ummah before being just an Indian. They perform Hajj for a reason.
Sure, perform Hajj and go to US, leaving your motherland behind? If you believe in Muslim Ummah, why arent you doing your contribution instead of living a luxurious life in US of A? Are YOU being a true Muslim?

Dude, seriously what an inane statement. Hajj is performed for a personal satisfaction, a personal connection with and submission to God. It has absolutely nothing to do with Ummah. Those misguided followers who believe in Muslim Ummah are the reason why some countries are not progressing. Such people cannot even take care of their own country and here they go dreaming of a greater political entity!!

I am looking at India where a sub monkey level caste system still practice. At least in Pakistan or Bangladesh, we treat all human as human unlike Bharat.

Yeah, we see everyday examples of how BD and Pakistani people are treated by their respective aristocratic leaders! Talk about discrimination. Caste system has nothing to do with Muslims in India, your point is invalid!
 
Perhaps all the good leaders migrated to Pakistan during partition.
If current condition of Pakistan is anything to go by, then I am glad that 'all the good leaders migrated to Pakistan during partition'.:azn:

One shudders to think what would have happened to India if these 'good leaders' had chosen to stay back in India to spread their goodness.
 
Last edited:
Like all my Indian brothers, I see a leader as an Indian first and last, not as a Hindu or a Muslim or a Sikh or a Christian or a Parsi. This constant harping on "Muslim leadership" has strong undertones of vote bank politics played in some form or the other by all parties, though admittedly more by some historically. And we all know which party I am pointing to here.

The Hindus are too huge a population, and will never be united as a single vote bank playing to a religion card. Remember, India today is secular not because the Muslims want it, but because the Hindus do. Plain and simple, numbers matter. One only needs to look at what's happening next door to realise that.

That leaves the Muslim community with the baggage of religious identity issues fostered from the time of Partition when Pakistan was carved out for the Muslims. Those that remained behind, were sadly forever left holding that unwanted child, who nobody wants to acknowledge or allude to or look at or even give it a tangible identity ..... hoping it will magically go away.

The need of the hour today is not further drive a wedge between the Indian muslim community and the rest of India by pandering to this divisive segregationist ideology in the garb of "Muslim" leadership. By all means, like all communities, at a community level, at a socio-cultural level, at a religious level, there will be elders, key opinion leaders, luminaries who will guide the youngsters and work for the betterment of their community. But the muslims need to realise, as I believe they already have, that the betterment of the community is inextricably interwoven by inclusive ideologies and the betterment of the Indian society and nation as a whole.

The community will prosper when it leaves behind the baggage of religious identity exclusivity and rigidity at the altar of inclusive assimilation into the Indian mainstream. The community will prosper by throwing up leaders, doctors, engineers, lawyers, businessmen, teachers, social workers, and soldiers for India. By putting a greater emphasis on formal education for their kids. The muslims of India do not need muslim leaders to give them a political voice. The sad fact of the matter is that historically they have always had hindu leaders providing it for them in return for their block vote. With their so-called "leaders" going along, taking the entire community for a ride.

As long as the muslims do not see this, they will always feel different and in peril, and be made to feel as outsiders by the large overwhelming non-muslim majority of India who would resent this special treatment and the lack of perceived oneness with them.

I must tell you in ending that the early years of my boyhood were spent growing up in a predominantly Muslim area of Jamshedpur called Dhatkidih. Most of my earliest chaddi buddies with whom we used to play gully cricket were muslims. Even as a child I could pick up on the difference between the vibes of the parents of these kids towards me, a non-threatening and mostly inconsequential Parsi, versus some of the Hindu kids who would play with us.

Thankfully I see a lot less of that siege mentality amongst today's generation. But it would be naive to believe that everything is now hunky dory and its not there anymore. Its still there and it needs to be tackled first, for the muslim community to really prosper.

Cheers, Doc

Congrats on this excellent post. Perfectly explained doc, however i would like to add that, in addition to the above reasons the factors that are not letting this feeling among our Muslim Brethren die are, vote bank politics and extremist elements tarnishing the image of ummah.
 
Yes I am Deciding it , There are No Muslims, there are Only Indians In India.... They are Muslims after they are Indians..... Religion always comes second , atleast In India..... they have the Identity of an Indian, Not of a Muslim....

and Muslims in India have Different culture and Tradition when Compared to Any Other, which Makes them Culturally and Traditionally Indian.... So I have every Damn Rights to Call them Indians first Rather Muslims.... Understand?

Very prompt in calculations and assumptions, you are, dear Join!

Religion do not come second, but first, even among Hindus, than being the coveted INDIAN nationality tag! It is not a mere Muslim specific phenomenon!

To qoute it correctly for HINDU child, in families who follow the customs, rituals for the unborn starts right at conception, Garbhadana samskara (the creative act ) is performed by the groom and bride and the child is conceived amidst the pure vibrations of the mantras so that good impressions may be impressed in the brain-cells of the embryo. Two more rituals will follow while the child is still in the womb, Pumsavana preformed during the third month while the food sheath and vital sheath of the child are being formed and Simantonnayana during the seventh month to bestow health upon the child and mother.

As soon as the child is born Jatakarma samskara is performed where the umbilical chord is cut and the father welcomes his new-born child into the world, while praying for his long life, intelligence and well-being, and feeds it with honey and ghee (clarified butter) on a gold ring while reciting a sacred mantra (chant) in his right ear. This ceremony can also be performed by another member of the family if the father is not present after consulting with the family priest. The ghee and honey cleanses the child's digestive tract by assisting the newborn to pass meconium and also nourishes and strengthen until the first breastfeeding takes place.


It is not the NATIONAL ANTHEM that is sung for the concieved child or the new born! I think I cleared that part!

To new borns in Muslim family, AZAN is said loudly NOT the national anthem!

These two examples clearly shows that the new borns belong to thier respective religions first than any country specific identity.

So when it come to the identity of a person in this great country INDIA, religion and cultural affinities always come TOGETHER followed by nationality.

To me, when a person is born, then HE/SHE is born to a particular religion family and as an Indian, BOTH AND SIMULTANOUSELY!
 
Last edited:
I am looking at India where a sub monkey level caste system still practice. At least in Pakistan or Bangladesh, we treat all human as human unlike Bharat.
Couple of fine examples of treating 'all human as human unlike Bharat':

In Pakistan, a person has first officially declare that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadiani is an 'imposter' and 'Lahori or Qadiani group to be Non-Muslim', before he can get a passport. Pakistan is probably the only Muslim state that decides, constitutionally, no less, on behalf of its citizens, who is a 'Muslim'.

Pakistan's close cousin, Bangladesh had Vested Property Act till 2001 which was basically used to confiscate properties of Hindus. Even after enactment of Vested Properties Return Act, few, if at all, such properties were returned to the Hindus.
 
There are 150 millions of you yet not united against oppression. Very sad indeed. Perhaps all the good leaders migrated to Pakistan during partition. As a result Muslim population of present India fall behind.

Is there any way out of this quagmire??? :coffee:

Education not just for Muslims, for every one...

15450kalam.jpg
 
And you going to decide this. A Muslim is Muslim first then Indian and all Muslims must believe in this. I am sure that most Muslims in India consider them self as part of Muslm Ummah before being just an Indian. They perform Hajj for a reason.

Do a google on Dr.Kalam

Company Quarter Master Havildar Abdul Hamid.

Both thought they are Indians first and then Muslims.

Hence Abdul Hamid left the Pakistani tank column in tatters in 65.

Also see the list of Kargil Martyrs.

Tell me how many muslims you find.

The Kargil Memorial - Operation Vijay
They perform Hajj for a reason.

Saddam also performed haj yet he killed many innocent muslims of his own and had a bloody war with Iran.

Not to forget your own treatment to fellow East Pakistani's.

Glass house stones etc.etc.

GB
 
Both thought they are Indians first and then Muslims.

Anyone believe such would be consider non-Muslim.

I have asked a comment from real Muslim from Bahrat. I am not interested any comment by a non Muslim behalf of Muslim. I am satisfy with the comment given by our brother Fighter488. He represent the real faces of Muslim in Bharat and we know that Bharati Hindus are just as cunning and deceptive as their Zionist masters. Your fake secular takma is full of deception and license to oppress minorities including Muslims.

Not to forget your own treatment to fellow East Pakistani's.

What treatment? All were well except some Munafiqs destroyed it.
 
Back
Top Bottom