Muslim-Jew seeks new approach to Arab-Israeli peace

[Solomon2]

I grew up being told that Israelis and Jews were the lowest type of creature in existence, put on Earth only to kill us Arabs. In math class the teacher would say, “If one rocket killed X number of Jews, how many would six rockets kill?”...

“Grandma, are you Jewish?”

She didn’t answer the question directly, but she started crying and spoke about the years of Arab-Israeli conflict. She told me how her brother Zaki had been killed in Jerusalem before the rebirth of the State -

...I began studying Torah and keeping Shabbat. Last year I spent a month in Israel touring and studying on Aish HaTorah’s Jerusalem Fellowships program. It was a great “homecoming.”

...I am working to develop a program to educate Arabs about Jews and Judaism, to dissolve the stereotypes propagated by the Muslim media and schools. I hope that my unique background can help bridge some of that divide.

...It often seems like the Arab-Israeli conflict is intractable. Yet I believe in today’s world, there is a real opportunity for a breakthrough.

I think there are a lot of people out there like this fellow. Though not many Pakistanis, I guess.

 

[asq]

Solomon,

This one you preferred to post, i can put up tens of this kind about Palestinians and what Israel has done, let me put up something for you and see what you think of it.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1125577.html

http://www.israeli-occupation.org/2009-11-03/settlers-force-palestinians-out-of-east-jerusalem-home/

Al Jazeera English - RIZ KHAN - Changing perspectives on Israel

It is not a perception, but reality, and till Israel stops atrocities and occupation. when it does, Pakistan will do the right thing.

We believe that we the Pakistanis stand for moral high ground and justice, be it in Palestine or kashmir or Anywhere else.

So let us work together to bring peace to Holy land in the right manners acceptable to all.

 

[Solomon2]

If you can relate links to this story I'll try to read them. Otherwise, why not start your own thread, asq? I think this story is of note because the subject has lived first the Muslim and then the Jewish side and now believes peace is both desirable and possible and sees himself as working to achieve it.

 

[Solomon2]

We believe that we the Pakistanis stand for moral high ground and justice, be it in Palestine or kashmir or Anywhere else.

I know. One of the very first Pakistanis I met was a diplomat who explained just that. He also explained that he had discovered that all too often what happened was the opposite, and it was difficult or near impossible for him to convince his countrymen of this. So he switched his allegiance from Islamabad to Dhaka before he died.

 

[MadDog]

dude..there are a lot of pakistanis who say all this....everyone knows that muslims and jews beliefs are more than 90% the same...these two groups are most closest to each other...they have lived together for centuries...jews had their golden period in muslim spain...during war in spain jews faught along side muslims...remember when during nazi holoucast a muslim cleric saved hundreds of jews by making them pose as muslims to nazi athorities..moreover during the crusades , crusaders butchered every muslim, jew and even christians in jerusalem....there are jewish muslim alliance groups worldwide...do some search you would find them.
Only problem...is when houses of people are destroyed further land is occupied and the residents are replaced by new settlers.....no one is against jews....as i said they are most closes to muslims...but lets be straight the problems are cuz of the political ideology...plz just follow judaism properly and there will be no problem in mid-east

On the other hand...there are muslims who spread mis information among muslims...and know nothing about judaism.

Verses from the Holy Quran

[However] They are not all alike. Among the People of the Book there is an upright community who recite the revelation of God during the night and fall prostrate before Him. They believe in God and the Last Day, enjoin what is right and forbid what is evil, and vie with one another in good works. They are of the righteous. And whatever good they do, its reward will not be denied them. God knows those who fear [Him]. (Qur'an, 3:113-115)

Those who believe, those who are Jews, and the Christians and Sabaeans, all who believe in God and the Last Day and act rightly, will have their reward with their Lord. They will feel no fear and will know no sorrow. (Qur'an, 2:62)



MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL

Say, "O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God." (Qur'an, 3:64)

A messenger was sent to ever nation on earth since the begging of the world with the same message


We sent a Messenger among every people saying: "Worship God and keep clear of all false gods." Among them were some whom God guided but others received the misguidance they deserved. Travel about the earth and see the final fate of the deniers. (Qur'an, 16:36)

Please read this part of the book of Harun Yahya speacialy dedicated to People of the Book
Harun Yahya - Islam Denounces Terrorism

Hope this helps you brother

 

[Solomon2]

remember when during nazi holoucast a muslim cleric saved hundreds of jews by making them pose as muslims to nazi athorities./QUOTE]
Don't know that story but I do know people who were saved by Muslims during the Holocaust. (Of course, those were Albanians, and they do tend to identify more with Israel than with the Arabs.) But yes, I've read that many Jews and Nazi-occupied lands in Africa survived thanks to their Arab neighbors.

Only problem...is when houses of people are destroyed further land is occupied and the residents are replaced by new settlers -

I hadn't noticed that Muslims have a "problem" with the destruction of Jewish homes in Gaza, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, and Yemen. No one talks of giving that land back to the Jews. Perhaps "land for peace" should be a formula for Israel to grow bigger, rather than smaller?

the problems are cuz of the political ideology

When the West liberated the Arabs from Ottoman rule the Arabs had to face up to the problem of governing themselves. Educated Arabs knew that Western nations operated via popular sovereignty. Yet their own traditions were as a people under Imperial rule where every family had to look out for itself and grabbed what it could. What could be more convenient than to vilify the recently-arrived (or returned) Jews for everything bad and justify dictatorial power on that basis? Anybody advocating democracy could be labelled "Zionist" and expelled or executed.

It is Mark's contention that this Muslim-Arab vilification of Jews has to cease for peace to prevail. It seems that you, Mad Dog, completely grasp that this is a challenge to the prevalent form of Arab political authority.

plz just follow judaism properly and there will be no problem in mid-east -

Suppose I'm a Jew in the Middle East and a ravaging mob comes to attack me and other Jews, don't you think I'd find that a little bit of a problem? Yahya seems to be genuinely dedicated to good relations between Muslims and others, yet I wonder why he should lecture me rather than his co-religionists.

 

[fhassan]

Haji sahib - what you learn't from your Hajj I really wonder.

You need to calm down.

You must not paint people with the same brush:

Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth. (Quran 7:159)

Verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62)

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (Quran 3:113-114)

And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God. They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account. (Quran 3:199)

The article itself is very interesting indeed.

The anti-Jew sentiments persist simply because Muslims feel for their semitic-Palestinian brethren. Unfortunately, this has turned to hate.

It's not rocket science.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I reported this post to the Mods as too crude for the PDF.

 

[asq]

Solomon.

The firdst links are qbout forcible occupation of Arab properties, and the next one is the fact that Jews are not what they make us believe, they are converts as most other people are, and that is the crux of the matter.

So for Jews, it is my earnest request to know the facts of their ancestors as written by Mr. Sholomo ( A MUST READ FOR MUSLIMS) and act like simple followers of Prophet Moses and not act as better, superior by looking down on Palestinians and Muslims, but respect them for their piousness and make peace based on Holy Torah and Holy Quran.

 

[Solomon2]

First, I'd like to say that haji.muhammad is NOT my sock puppet. But he does illustrate very well the sort of stuff Mark is trying to combat. I hope the mods keep it.

Second, I'd like to try to narrow things down to the topics covered by the article.

asq, for example, cites a property seizure in Jerusalem, presumably as an instance of injustice. But if the house was seized because the property deed was forged because the occupant bought the house from someone who had the deed forged after his father slew the Jewish family that lived there in the 1920s, and there's a paper trail to back that up, is such a seizure unjust? For Arabs, too, get their day in court in Israel, and a day in the Jewish press to boot.

The idea that Israel is unjust is at the core of anti-Israel propaganda and one of the things Mark is fighting against. How likely is it that Muslims can accurately learn about Jewish origins, history, and rights when they exist in a stew of Jew-hatred?

respect them for their piousness and make peace based on Holy Torah and Holy Quran.

It may be hard, but I think discussions, agreements, and documents promoting peace must be made in plain language without citing religious documents. Because citing them serves as an opening, and a way to negate the path to peace by the religiously intolerant.

 

[Solomon2]

The anti-Jew sentiments persist simply because Muslims feel for their semitic-Palestinian brethren. Unfortunately, this has turned to hate.

No, it's rooted in more than that. In 1930 Will Durant, an American historian of some distinction, traveled to Palestine and noted:

Of the arable land ninety-three per cent is owned by Arabs, who will not sell to Jews, or will sell only at twice or thrice the price asked of good Mohammedans. How can an Arab love a Jew when the Jewish farmer, though city-bred, given to letters, and completely unfitted for the rural life, produces four to five times as much per acre as the Arab coaxes from his soil? How can the Arab look with content on the groves that have made a Jaffa orange the noblest work of God?

Add to this the hospitals and dispensaries, the schools and the university which the immigrants have brought to Palestine with unforgivable initiative. The Jews are too brilliant...they organized labor, and won shorter hours and higher wages for Jewish and Arab workers alike..they built and operated their own schools, and at the same time paid heavy taxes for the maintenance of the public schools in which Britain is educating the Arabs.

...The growth and success of the Jews inflamed the Arabs with jealous rage...On August 14, 1929, 10,000 Jews arrived in Jerusalem to gather at the Wailing Wall the next day and mourn together the destruction of the Temple. Arab leaders spread throughout Palestine the word that Jews had killed Arabs in Jerusalem...So the Arabs swept down upon the Jews and the Wailing Wall and slew scores of praying women and men...On the following days the riots were renewed, inflamed Arabs slaughtered helpless students in the Hebrew University at Hebron and throughout Palestine armed Muslims fell upon unarmed Jews - (Adventures in Genius, Simon & Schuster, 1931, pp. 330-332.)

So the hate was there first, and came out of envy and religious and racial bigotry, not mistreatment nor the theft of land. But the Arabs know that isn't enough to convince most people, so propaganda and distortion have been the rule from that time up to the present day.

A couple of years back at a conference in Damascus Muammar Qaddafi said something along the lines that if the Arabs ever admitted any justice to the claims of the Jews they would be liable for paying Israel hundreds of billions of dollars for the hell they put Jews through for nearly a century, so it was cheaper just to keep up the hatred. Some may think Qaddafi is crazy, but his success at ruling Arabs for so long unavoidably gives him great credibility when it comes to how Arab minds work.

Mark contends that for peace to happen Arabs and Muslims must get over their vilification of Jews. And since that's his Job #1, I conclude he believes that has to happen before anything else.

 

[EjazR]

@Solomon2
The problem if I remeber correctly was selling to foreign jews(obvious who were more educated and wealthier than the locals) immigrating into then British mandate of Palestine, not the local ethnic jews who already lived there since centuries and infact where in majority in areas that became Israel in 1948. Most of these were European jews were fleeing the holocaust from Germany.

And Qaddafi's success at ruling arabs?! You must be joking right? He is just dictator and until he is elected by the Libyans, he doesn't even have credibility to be leader of the Libyans let alone the Arab world.

And I'm afraid you are not balanced when you say that Arabs are the only one spreading hate. And I can quote numerous examples of Israeli offcials of hate speech against Arabs as well, not just regular Israeli settlers but elected offcials that ARE representative of a section of Israelis.

“We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.” Mayor of Tel Aviv in 98 re-election campaign

“When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle” Chief of Staff of IDF, New York Times, 83

But this DOES NOT represent the Jewish faith or belief. But Israelis will have to get over their vilification of Arabs. Similarly there does exist anti-Jewish sentiment but not from any scriptural basis from Quran for example among Arabs as explained by MadDog and fhassan.

Hence the need for Muslim-Jewish dialogue

 

[MadDog]

My friend i agree with you...this is a major problem that
there are dictatorships and kingships and no freedom of
media and freedom of speech in most arab countries...cuz they
donot follow an islamic system...which was ahead of its time.
Caliph Omer (R) even introduced system of pension in his time.
People of that nation selected from a group of leaders their future
head of state....it was indeed a deomcracy ahead of its time...they need to bring this political change in muslim countries....Pakistan
with the blessing of Allah has the freedom of media and speech...despite failed attempts to gag media in the past...the media has turned out to be a line of defence for Pak.....so i agree change has to be made in arab countries....Muslim political system needs
to be introduced so that masses have power.

AND PLEASE GUYS DONT POST RELIGOUS HATRED OVER HERE...THIS
DISCUSSION IS ABOUT POLITICAL IDEOLOGIES AND CONFLICTS AND HAS NOTHING
TO DO WITH RELIGION.

But at the same time no religion allows killing of innocents...just the way
TTP kills innocents in the name of islam and we condemn it...if IDF does it
in the name of religion while the 6th comandment goes "thou shall not kill" we have to condemn it.
Both use a religion to do something which has nothing
to do with that respective religion. Both attract supporters who
are emotional just cuz they think they are serving God by tergetting
innocents...while they are not...so please consider this.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

There is a misconception about the jews and muslims fighting togeher against the christians---maybe some minority---as a matter of fact---it was the jews who were involved in the marriage of Isabella to Ferdinand---and it was them who were involved in heavily funding the war for the christian armies against the muslims---( every war needs money ).

When the christian armies turned victorious and the jews went to get their reward, the catholic church had gained strong influence over Ferdinand and Isabella---Ferdinand and Isabella turned against the jews as well---rest is history---.

We pakistanis have always believed that jews and muslims were together in spain---not so---.

 

[Developereo]

Once again, the following BBC documentary will dispel many of the myths propounded by the Israeli apologists. It clearly documents the duplicity, betrayal and terrorism employed by the Zionists to gain control of Palestine. It also addresses the point about Jews buying land in Palestine.

Promises and Betrayals:

Bottom line, there will be no peace in Palestine until Jewish rabbis stop telling their people that they are entited to the land because God has reserved it for them. Israel ceased to exist when the Romans captured it in AD70.

The Zionists and Evangelical Christians, like the AQ and radical Muslims, are all birds of the same feather. We need more moderate Muslims, Christians and Jews. People like

Jews Not Zionists