Muslim Indians Should Demand A Seperate Nation:--

[dadeechi]

Might I ask why you are unwilling to apply the same principle to those whom you are questioning?

How can I stop anyone from posting their views? I am not even a moderator on this forum.

Have faith Monseigneur , Humans have only occupied a minuscle fraction of the 13.7 billion year history of the third rock from the sun.

Well the current version of the Humans have been existence for 40 millions years now. That's colossal for the people of the subcontinent who are fighting based on 1400 years of the history.

 

[nForce]

Then it needs people to start somewhere, anywhere, pointing out that things are wrong, not pussyfooting around pretending that the coming economic miracle is going to make everything all right.

Have any of you in your pack got the guts to come out and say that?

Haha..Something reminded me of having that late night conversation with one of friends, where I argue that a balanced - all-iz-well democracy never created heroes, crisis did. But, let's keep that aside for now. Just sharing.

I believe, we don't need a beacon or a set of semaphores to 'start' something. We just do it. Why don't we all start to state the facts the way they are, at least the way we know it and not categorically leave some parts in the dark ? I think we all can do that, whenever we talk and make that a habit ?

I can see the effect. My nephew also knows about Gujarat riots, and yet, somehow he does not know about Sabarmati Express.
It goes on in this way, and 10 years from now, the generation will read Gujarat riots like it was all about evil Yindoos killing Muslims!
Regarding coming out and saying out loud, well, I have been working on something, it's kind of difficult, but promising so far. I will keep you informed.

 

[Bang Galore]

And when I said the exact thing about the Gujarat riots, what was the reaction? Including from those most balanced of commentators such as you?

Isn't it in the least degree ironic that when Modi is in charge of a state government and hundreds die, it is then not his fault, but a situation going out of hand, and in any case, the police (reporting to him and to his minions, but that is a small detail) didn't chargesheet him, the courts appointed a special investigation team that could find nothing wrong in what he did?

Now that he is where the blame was supposed to lie, in Vajpayee's government at the centre, he needs another pass, because now - what an astonishing development - it is the state that should have acted, after all.

I think you haven't looked through my posts, they are all there, on record. I have severely criticised Modi for the riots, held him responsible for them though I have been careful not to get sucked into the complicity argument & kept it limited to his failure in performing his constitutional duty. I ask that you look at my posts which are all there before suggesting that I said anything different. I'm no fan blinded by any sort of fervor (no need to take my word, a quick look at my posts years before he became PM should suffice), I would hope that you make that distinction even if you do not agree with me.

The Gujarat riots were Modi's failure, even Vajpayee's to some extent & while I agree that Modi should speak up more on the matters presently at hand, i see no rationality in making it all about him.

Do I really need to draw the parallels? To the earlier situation, I mean? The encourage of absolute abdication of responsibility by right wing and extreme right wing intellectuals?

Essentially what you are saying is that these intellectual's should be treated by others with the same contempt that you would hold for the "right wing intellectuals". Not a pleasant place to be in my opinion.

And when I say this, I do so with complete condemnation of the SP, and with disappointment with the Congress government and its supine attitude.

It is not about condemnation, it is as to why are they getting a free pass on this one when it is they who primarily should be in the forefront of this issue. Modi's silence may be morally questionable but theirs is a constitutional responsibility, not just a moral one.

It will, more's the pity, partly because of the increasingly out-of-control attitude of the Sangh apparatchiks.

Which is why I regret this blame Modi & only him for every problem. While I don't see things going out of control, I share your apprehension in the tension that is being ratcheted up. However I think that by not keeping a head firm on the shoulders, the voices of "protest" are only adding to the polarisation.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I think you haven't looked through my posts, they are all there, on record. I have severely criticised Modi for the riots, held him responsible for them though I have been careful not to get sucked into the complicity argument & kept it limited to his failure in performing his constitutional duty. I ask that you look at my posts which are all there before suggesting that I said anything different. I'm no fan blinded by any sort of fervor (no need to take my word, a quick look at my posts years before he became PM should suffice), I would hope that you make that distinction even if you do not agree with me.

The Gujarat riots were Modi's failue, even Vajpayee's to some extent & while I agree that Modi should speak up more on the matters presently at hand, i see no rationality in making it all about him.

I have enough faith in your integrity to take your word for it: if you say you spoke out at that time, that is good enough for me. Consider my remark implicating you in the common ruck withdrawn.

My own position is that while the matter of complicity is impossible to prove without the cooperation of the state machinery set up for the express purpose of uncovering such complicity but gagged by executive fiat, there is the constitutional failure.

Essentially what you are saying is that these intellectual's should be treated by others with the same contempt that you would hold for the "right wing intellectuals". Not a pleasant place to be in my opinion.

LOL. Certainly a way to look at it. I had rather hoped to look at it from the opposite direction.

It is not about condemnation, it is as to why are they getting a free pass on this one when it is they who primarily should be in the forefront of this issue. Modi's silence may be morally questionable but theirs is a constitutional responsibility, not just a moral one.

Why indeed? Is this not the same argument used to question those who did not speak up at the time of the massacres of the Sikhs? When do you speak? When do I speak? When there is occasion for it, when there is an opportunity?

Which is why I regret this blame Modi & only him for every problem. While I don't see things going out of control, I share your apprehension in the tension that is being ratcheted up. However I think that by not keeping a head firm on the shoulders, the voices of "protest" are only adding to the polarusation.

I wish I could share your sanguine view of things. I think that this unnecessary experiment in government will leave behind a social residue of acceptance of rabidly communal behaviour by the Hindus, and build in an organic and automatically invoked bullying attitude at the local dada level. That sort of social change is irreversible. There is simply no mechanism to isolate it and winkle it out.

 

[illusion8]

Gentlemen and ladies,

It gives me great pride to start this thread----. A lot of changes have occurred in the indian sub-continent in the last year or two.

The relationship of the hindus towards other minorities has taken a dive for the worst. The persecution of the Christians, Sikhs and muslims is reaching new heights.

The ban on eating cow meat and the execution of those who do---is going to setup a new trend in the hate relation between the different ethnic groups of Hindustan.

With the police and state agencies supporting the hindu extremists and participating in the killing of the minorities----gentlemen---and ladies----I give the muslims of India a new slogan----

A SEPERATE NATION FOR MILLION MUSLIMS

that constitute almost 1/3rd the population of india---so they should ask for 1/3rd the land to create their own state.

It is about time---that the indian muslims come out of the subjugation and the rule of tyranny and ask for their rightful position in the society and a country of their own.

I would recommend the Pakistani readers on ths thread---those who have feelings and have writing skills and better knowledge about this issue----to propagate this idea in all the web pages and threads that they can come up----write up in the news papers and if they knw any TV hosts----let us start a movement----.

Let payback those who wanted our separation and breakage----. This is the time---this is the place---let us start a movement---let us forget our differences for a while----gentlemen and ladies---let us do this for Pakistan.

@Indus Falcon @PWFI @WebMaster @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Shamain @Akheilos @fakhre mirpur @Raja.Pakistani @Color_Less_Sky @Think Tank consultants @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Humble Analyst

My apologies to other Pakistanis---if you read this thread spread it like a wild fire---and if you know anyone in the Pakistani media---ask them to talk about it---.

Let this be my salvation for the sins that I have committed in my life---make me proud----light the fire---start the fire---let it burn---let it rip---. Pakistan zindabad----Pakistan zindabad---Pakistan zindabad.

They already did..

1. When pakistan and bangladesh was born.
2. The sunni majority of the kashmir valley demanding a separate state.

They will..eh en they form a sizeable majority in any region..The biggest danger is in assam at the present moment. .The general tendency of muslims in any part of the world is to demand self rule when they form a sizeable chunk. Has to go with their belief to live under shariah and the concept of ghettoisation, not merging with the others.

Most Indians are quite well aware of this anomaly and know that they will eventually when they have a sizeable population in a big enough region.

 

[Bang Galore]

Then it needs people to start somewhere, anywhere, pointing out that things are wrong, not pussyfooting around pretending that the coming economic miracle is going to make everything all right.

Have any of you in your pack got the guts to come out and say that?

People stand up & make their point but it does not satisfy those for whom nothing other a full condemnation of Modi for everything will suffice.

.Arundhati Roy once said that Amir Khan could not join the Narmada andolan because he advertised for Coca-cola. Same attitude on display here.

 

[Joe Shearer]

They already did..

1. When pakistan and bangladesh was born.
2. The sunni majority of the kashmir valley demanding a separate state.

They will..eh en they form a sizeable majority in any region..The biggest danger is in assam at the present moment. .The general tendency of muslims in any part of the world is to demand self rule when they form a sizeable chunk. Has to go with their belief to live under shariah and the concept of ghettoisation, not merging with the others.

Most Indians are quite well aware of this anomaly and know that they will eventually when they have a sizeable population in a big enough region.

Please be fair.

When my young friend Z**nab B*** goes and seeks accommodation in her own name, it is mysterious how often buildings are already just given out, or suddenly not available. When she goes out and looks around as Mrs. Kiran J, she gets no problems.

Some of the ghettoisation is the fault of an insular community thinking. Some of it is artificial pressure put on by us.

People stand up & make their point but it does not satisfy those for whom nothing other a full condemnation of Modi for everything will suffice.

.Arundhati Roy once said that Amir Khan could not join the Narmada andolan because he advertised for Coca-cola. Same attitude on display here.

I wish they did. If you were to look through the records in your turn, you would find that they are as determined not to admit the slightest blemish in the conduct of their great leader.

 

[dadeechi]

Please be fair.

When my young friend Z**nab B*** goes and seeks accommodation in her own name, it is mysterious how often buildings are already just given out, or suddenly not available. When she goes out and looks around as Mrs. Kiran J, she gets no problems.

Some of the ghettoisation is the fault of an insular community thinking. Some of it is artificial pressure put on by us.



I wish they did. If you were to look through the records in your turn, you would find that they are as determined not to admit the slightest blemish in the conduct of their great leader.

See as I told you already if we have separate communities even this problem of renting would be resolved.

 

[Bang Galore]

Why indeed? Is this not the same argument used to question those who did not speak up at the time of the massacres of the Sikhs? When do you speak? When do I speak? When there is occasion for it, when there is an opportunity?.

No, it isn't. This is not about why they did not protest elsewhere, it is why they are not looking more clearly at the incidents that they are protesting about & apportion blame fully.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No, it isn't. This is not about why they did not protest elsewhere, it is why they are not looking more clearly at the incidents that they are protesting about & apportion blame fully.

That is a fairy-tale fantasy. Are you suggesting that every post, every stricture should contain a qualifying clause? Is it illegitimate, in fact, to ask Modi to speak up, as he speaks up so awful many times on far more trivial things, without seeming to be condoning the behaviour of those shady characters directly resposible?

 

[Bang Galore]

I wish they did. If you were to look through the records in your turn, you would find that they are as determined not to admit the slightest blemish in the conduct of their great leader.

Why do you expect condemnation from that type? You should ask that only of those you consider to be in the centre regardless of whether their political preferences may show a tilt one way or the other.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why do you expect condemnation from that type? You should ask that only of those you consider to be in the centre regardless of whether their political preferences may show a tilt one way or the other.

Some 90% of the discussion over the last 24 hours has been with 'that type'. The funniest was when one of them picked up a sarcasm addressed to a Muslim, and rushed to conclude that i was Muslim myself. That does not mean that I would be ashamed to be Muslim if I was one; it means that i found that their thought processes were illustrative.

 

[Bang Galore]

That is a fairy-tale fantasy. Are you suggesting that every post, every stricture should contain a qualifying clause? Is it illegitimate, in fact, to ask Modi to speak up, as he speaks up so awful many times on far more trivial things, without seeming to be condoning the behaviour of those shady characters directly resposible?

It is a fairy tale fantasy alright that you don't blame the people actually tasked with the duty to deal with these matters & concern yourselves solely with the man that you do not like & wish to blame even if the only blame to be apportioned is on the basis of some moral failing.

I'm suggesting that behaviour like this gives a free pass to those actually involved, whether it be the likes of the Shiv sena or the Sanathan Sansta or even state governments who fail in their duty like U.P. & Karnataka. Why should they not actually sit back & watch more such incidents happen because they know that they are not the ones going to be blamed for it. There is a ready scapegoat available.

It befuddles me that you can't see my point.

The funniest was when one of them picked up a sarcasm addressed to a Muslim, and rushed to conclude that i was Muslim myself.

Saw that. Not to worry, I have been a Christian many times, a Congresi, a Sangi chaddi wala, a Hindutvadi fanatic.....

I accept all compliments...

 

[illusion8]

Please be fair.

When my young friend Z**nab B*** goes and seeks accommodation in her own name, it is mysterious how often buildings are already just given out, or suddenly not available. When she goes out and looks around as Mrs. Kiran J, she gets no problems.

Some of the ghettoisation is the fault of an insular community thinking. Some of it is artificial pressure put on by us.



I wish they did. If you were to look through the records in your turn, you would find that they are as determined not to admit the slightest blemish in the conduct of their great leader.

I live in an area surrounded by a muslim ghetto called islampur..where I personally have witnessed the local mosques filled with weapons of all kinds meant to be used for riots. The mosques are frequented by strangers (not locals) who look like they came straight out of isis seminaries. The cops put up a big bill board carrying photographs of offenders, pickpockets, chain snatchers and burglars..and a old muslim man tore it down without remorse the next day because it featured his son and nephew. .no thought towards correcting them from being a nuisance to society. .but he wanted to hide their crimes. No one's stopping islampur from being the best ideal area where the residents are prime examples of society, honest hardworking tax paying and peaceful.

 

[dadeechi]

I live in an area surrounded by a muslim ghetto called islampur..where I personally have witnessed the local mosques filled with weapons of all kinds meant to be used for riots. The mosques are frequented by strangers (not locals) who look like they came straight out of isis seminaries. The cops put up a big bill board carrying photographs of offenders, pickpockets, chain snatchers and burglars..and a old muslim man tore it down without remorse the next day because it featured his son and nephew. .no thought towards correcting them from being a nuisance to society. .but he wanted to hide their crimes. No one's stopping islampur from being the best ideal area where the residents are prime examples of society, honest hardworking tax paying and peaceful.

Seems like this place.

Little Arabia - The Times of India