Muslim immigrants: A cold shoulder for a bad reputation

[Gold1010]

The situation of Africans in France is quite complicated. Western research studies in Britain and France have shown that identical resumes with Muslim v/s non-Muslim names get vastly different response from employers. There is massive societal discrimination in some countries and, if your chances of getting a job are not much better whether you go to school or not, it is not surprising that many African/Muslim migrants skip school and end up in a life of crime.

Having said that, it is also true that much of the blame lies with immigrant communities themselves. They tend to be utterly useless in terms of social and community support. Their leaders are typically bearded anachronisms from the old country who are woefully unqualified to give any advice relevant to the country where they live. Other than issuing pointless fatwas about the length of the beard and the length of a woman's sleeve, they are worthless to provide any guidance. One would hope that the Islamic communities in the West would have the common sense to appoint leaders and counselors who are locally educated, if not born, and who can help immigrants find a balance between Islam and local culture. Since most Muslim communities have failed to act proactively in this, it is encouraging that Western governments may start mandating these requirements for community leaders.

Pakistan has problems with Afghan refugees , so does South Africa with other neighbouring african countrys , i think the problem is when people come in mass and not slowly and they form communities within communities and arnt naturalised to the country.

France burqa ban is defensible the muslims dont intergrate there , it goes against french values and the ban isnt 1 sided men who force their wives or daughters to cover themselves for religious reasons face stiffer penalties of up to 30,000 euros and a one-year jail term.

As for muslims who do intergrate dont get showcased , take a look at the news dude its full of bad stories not good ones.I mean thats just common sense do you want there to be a bulletin for muslims who do integrate.Its the same for every other culture/Race simply because it shouldnt be an achievement to integrate i dont see stories of australians integrating in other countrys doesnt mean the media is racist.I see plenty of crimes commited by white australians on the Tv dont you.

You dont need special treatment from the media.

Should we call pakistani media racist if they dont show anything good about hindus in pakistan hm.

 

[Developereo]

France burqa ban is defensible the muslims dont intergrate there , it goes against french values and the ban isnt 1 sided men who force their wives or daughters to cover themselves for religious reasons face stiffer penalties of up to 30,000 euros and a one-year jail term.

Let's focus on specific issues instead of vague words like 'integration'.

As for the burqa ban it's a solution in need of a problem, as I explained in this post elsewhere

First of all, this burqa ban is not about secularism, since the Sikh turban or Jewish yarmulka are not being banned in public.

Secondly, it's not about preventing terrorism since raincoats are not being banned, and a terrorist is far more likely to use a raincoat than a burqa. This is Paris, not Peshawar. The last thing a terrorist wants is to stand out from the crowd, and a figure in a burqa will stand out far more than someone in a raincoat.

Thirdly, it is not about security identification since we are talking about all public places, not banks or restricted areas. If people can walk around in a helmet or with one of those nose and face covering masks which became popular during the SARS epidemic, then why single out the burqa?

Fourthly, and most emphatically, this is not about women's rights. These people couldn't care less about Muslims, male or female, and stigmatizing the people you claim to be saving does not fool anyone.

So, ultimately, it comes down to a personal choice that people don't like the look of the burqa. Personally, I don't like it either, but then again, I don't like punk hairstyles or excessive tattoos. Certainly, the French public have the right to outlaw certain dress codes, just like women can't walk around in a bikini in Muslim countries, but the reasons for the ban need to be acknowledged forthright instead of hiding behind the false claims I mentioned above.

As for muslims who do intergrate dont get showcased , take a look at the news dude its full of bad stories not good ones.I mean thats just common sense do you want there to be a bulletin for muslims who do integrate.Its the same for every other culture/Race simply because it shouldnt be an achievement to integrate i dont see stories of australians integrating in other countrys doesnt mean the media is racist.I see plenty of crimes commited by white australians on the Tv dont you.

Australian media doesn't showcase ethnic achievements anyway, but media in the US and UK is very attuned to that. And they rarely show positive stories about Muslim migrants. As for Australia, I already explained why the media harps on about Middle Eastern crime even thought the two top prison populations per-capita are neither Muslim, nor Arab.

You dont need special treatment from the media.

Muslims are asking for fair, equal treatment, not 'special' treatment. They are asking not to be demonized for cheap demagoguery.

Should we call pakistani media racist if they dont show anything good about hindus in pakistan hm.

If Pakistani media was always on the lookout for negative stories about Hindus; if they turned every rabid anti-Hindu bigot into a media celebrity and folk hero; and if they mostly ignored Hindu contribution to society, then they would be equivalent to Western media's treatment of Muslims and could be called bigoted.

 

[BATMAN]

Look guys if the whole third world get peace and united defence like NATO, than than they tend to grow strong and become a self-reliant, killing lucrative market of west.
Whereas, under-developed world is a big market for the products and services of developed world, therefore had lot of foreign interference in internal affairs.
Corruption is the first step developed worlds like to see in rest of underdeveloped world, this assist them finding locals willing to do any thing for money, including ministers and presidents, as is the case with Pakistan. Hence you will always find west supporting only the corrupt rulers.
Once the general public become hopeless they head to seek peace in developed world, where they are paraded in public, make head lines to stir local minds against those de-humanised immigrants.
This in turn help developed world to earn vote for war which is a simply a business cycle.
Basically, such immigrants are allowed, but educated people from respective states are not allowed for the obvious reasons.

 

[BATMAN]

And which birdie said only Moroccans are referred to as Maghrebis ?

We were talking about nationality of immigrants... and al-Maghrib is official name of a state.. known to you as Morocco.

 

[T-Faz]

Sorry, that's simply not true. We are not talking about superstars but normal people. For the vast majority of jobs, the applicants are mostly similar and it's a matter of picking one out of them.

My point is that the migrants know that they will always be disadvantaged when it comes to opportunities and thus they should strive to achieve a higher level of education or expertise to succeed in foreign countries, career wise.

Its about being able to achieve admiration for our collective characteristics, thats what will change negative perception.

It's even more generic when it comes to entry level jobs for fresh graduates. When Muslim kids get filtered out at this level, it discourages them from even trying. Again, this discrimination has been documented by Western studies.

No doubt about that but the problem is that you have to continue striving and find your place. Such incidents should not put people off because that shows weak characteristics, we know what we are in for and we should try our best.

The rise of Islamophobia has less to do with the actions of Western Muslims themselves than with the Western media's agenda. As you noted, there are Muslim migrants who are fully integrated, successful and contributing members of society, but they rarely get showcased by the media.

The good ones will rarely get highlighted while the bad ones are highlighted on a regular basis. What makes it worse is that Muslim communities always provide extensive opportunities to the Media for maligning all Muslims. I am sure you are aware of the many things that are often discussed in western media.

The media is constantly on the lookout for negative stories involving Muslims and the coverage is disproportionately tilted towards the negative. Witness the stories in this thread, as if native Europeans never commit crimes, and criminal behavior is the norm amongst Muslim immigrants.

Muslims are highlighted to a great extent even when there isn't a requirement for their religion to be highlighted in many such cases. Muslims too have failed in being able to successfully counter negative stories about them and the general perception.

Certainly the authorities and the community have their work cut out for them, but the unrelenting media makes things worse by stoking unjustified hysteria. For example, the Australian media talks about Middle Eastern criminals, even though the two highest per-capita jail populations and Vietnamese and Pacific Islanders. But if they dare talk about those groups, the media will be accused of anti-Asian racism and, given the importance of Japan and China, Australia is terrified of being perceived as anti-Asian. However, nobody cares if they are openly bigoted against Arabs and Muslims, because Arab and Muslim countries are pathetically impotent.

I agree with you, when they know these countries are gutless and there will be no real aggressive response, they continue to do what they think helps them play with public sentiment.

Again the fault of Muslim countries who do not have the guts to be aggressive and confrontational.

 

[Gold1010]

Let's focus on specific issues instead of vague words like 'integration'.

As for the burqa ban it's a solution in need of a problem, as I explained in this post elsewhere

Australian media doesn't showcase ethnic achievements anyway, but media in the US and UK is very attuned to that. And they rarely show positive stories about Muslim migrants. As for Australia, I already explained why the media harps on about Middle Eastern crime even thought the two top prison populations per-capita are neither Muslim, nor Arab.



Muslims are asking for fair, equal treatment, not 'special' treatment. They are asking not to be demonized for cheap demagoguery.



If Pakistani media was always on the lookout for negative stories about Hindus; if they turned every rabid anti-Hindu bigot into a media celebrity and folk hero; and if they mostly ignored Hindu contribution to society, then they would be equivalent to Western media's treatment of Muslims and could be called bigoted.

What about the story where a mosque was donating to a family who was destroyed by the queensland floods that story was shown everywhere on a positive light even though they were donating to muslims and not to any of the other victims(which the news didnt bring up)

News is brought up depending on the scale of it , Racial Crime like the indian attacks and cronulla riots get heavy press.For example that there is no Discrimination attacks on the indians were also done by lebanese and pacific islanders was that brought up in the main news?Nope.

Middle eastern crimes are high profile because they often involve shoot outs or drive byes just like bikie gang crimes are showcased in the media also Middle eastern crime have identity like gang names etc.

There is no Discrimination news is news , boys pissing on a bible is news because its controversial same for that mufti dont wanna be on the wrong side of the news dont do like that its simple dont go calling discrimination.As for achievements when do you see any achievements on the news unless its sailing around the world , becoming a sporting star or inventing a cure.It was brought up however when a muslim won a seat in the federal election and it wasnt in a bad way yet he was only explicity mentioned because he was a muslim hmm?

Idk dude after seing your comments on the cronulla riots i just think your anti white australian in whats called reverse racism.=\

Btw you got statistics for prison population in NSW that i can see please?

 

[Unbeliever]

Germans are also about 65% (depending on the survey but at least half) against more (non-EU) immigration. We already have more immigrants than we can handle. About 40% of Turkish immigrants live of welfare and significant numbers are involved in crime, often violent crime. Generally Muslim immigrants are posing significant problems, that people agree we should first solve together, before tens of thousands of new immigrants should be let in.

Oh and: 'F*ck you Berlosconi!' for selfishly granting those visas and just moving the people for someone else to deal with.. real European spirit.. -.-
That guys needs to go to jail, badly.
This kind of behavior jeopardizes the Schengen-Agreement (which in principle is pretty awesome)

...then they would be equivalent to Western media's treatment of Muslims and could be called bigoted.

Sorry dude, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Stories focused on Muslim criminals are very rare in Germany. Although Muslim immigrants are vastly over represented in crime given there percentage of the population most stories focus on successful immigrants and in pretty much all of our evening political talk shows on that issue a successful Muslim Immigrant or several are invited to show that perspective.

I see you say "western" here, well it is certainly not true for Germany.

 

[muse]

Why not Arab countries shelter them? They have money and sparsely populated as well.

Why are they leaving? Why are they willing to put up with every indignity imaginable but not live in any "Arab" country??


Friends, we always point out Pakistan's own faults and warts when we discuss problems, and this is our strength -- Arbis don't have this inherent strength -- they blame others for their problems - and lets be truthful, have peoples struggled so that they can live in repressive and oppressive societies???

They want what they see exists in Europe and the West in general, a chance, an opportunity, to make their lives better, to have an opportunity at a better education, a life of dignity --- point to even one Arab or "islamican" country where such things exists and where people don't want to escape??

It is, all about culture, It is, all about values

Sooner or later, I hope sooner than later, the West will tire of this, because this can be a mortal danger to the West and by saying "no", the West will return to the peoples of Arab and so called Muslim majority country ,the initiative to solve their own problems in their own homes --- Want jobs? enact policies to attract business --- Want lives of dignity?? Stay the heck away from socialist economics, especially if they are disguised as so called "islamic economics", basically stay the heck away from anything that has "Islamic" in front of it because you can be sure it will have zero content of the Islam you thought existed and much ideology, both fascist and totalitarian. --- Want a civilized society where laws are made for people, not people for laws?? Build Schools that impart values that support ideas such as humanism and open society.

It is, all about culture. It is about values.

 

[fallstuff]

Pakistan has problems with Afghan refugees , so does South Africa with other neighbouring african countrys , i think the problem is when people come in mass and not slowly and they form communities within communities and arnt naturalised to the country.

France burqa ban is defensible the muslims dont intergrate there , it goes against french values and the ban isnt 1 sided men who force their wives or daughters to cover themselves for religious reasons face stiffer penalties of up to 30,000 euros and a one-year jail term.

As for muslims who do intergrate dont get showcased , take a look at the news dude its full of bad stories not good ones.I mean thats just common sense do you want there to be a bulletin for muslims who do integrate.Its the same for every other culture/Race simply because it shouldnt be an achievement to integrate i dont see stories of australians integrating in other countrys doesnt mean the media is racist.I see plenty of crimes commited by white australians on the Tv dont you.

You dont need special treatment from the media.

Should we call pakistani media racist if they dont show anything good about hindus in pakistan hm.

All those words, and your point is ?