PureLogic
BANNED
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2009
- Messages
- 166
- Reaction score
- 0
Mumbai Attacks
- Thread starter BanglaBhoot
- Start date
- Status
Smooth Operator
BANNED
New Recruit
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2008
- Messages
- 52
- Reaction score
- 0
hi, I am veggie eating bhangee
Last edited by a moderator:
Smooth Operator
BANNED
New Recruit
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2008
- Messages
- 52
- Reaction score
- 0
Pakistan extends crackdown on Mumbai suspects
Pakistan however needs to do more
16/01/2009
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - Pakistan insisted it would help India to bring those behind the Mumbai terrorist attacks to justice, saying Thursday it had shut down extremist Web sites and suspected militant training camps, and detained 71 people in a deepening probe.
Still, a top Pakistani official said authorities needed to further investigate information about the attacks provided by archrival India before it could be used to prosecute suspects in court.
Islamabad is under pressure to clamp down on Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Pakistan-based militant group that India blames for killing 164 people in its commercial capital in the siege and raising tension between South Asia's nuclear-armed neighbors.
Days after the November attacks, the U.N. Security Council declared that Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a charity in Pakistan, was merely a front for the outlawed militant organization.
On Thursday, Pakistan's Interior Ministry said 71 leaders of the groups had been arrested since then and that another 124 had been placed under surveillance and must register their every move with police.
"The restrictions are so tough. It's virtual detention," Interior Secretary Kamal Shah said.
Rehman Malik, the ministry's top official, said authorities also had closed 20 offices, 94 schools, two libraries and six Web sites linked to the charity. He said authorities had shut more than a dozen relief camps of the charity, some of which are alleged to be militant training grounds.
Among those detained was Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, the head of Jamaat-ud-Dawa, along with Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and Zarrar Shah, who India says planned the Mumbai attacks. Malik repeated Islamabad's call for a joint investigation into the attacks and urged India to hand over more information to assist Pakistan's own probe.
"We are fully committed to help India in this investigation," he said at a news conference. "We have to prove to the world that India and Pakistan stand together against the terrorists because they are the common enemies."
On Jan. 5, India handed Pakistan a dossier of evidence including information on interrogations, weapons and data gleaned from satellite phones used by the attackers.
India said the material proved Pakistan-based militants plotted and executed the attacks and has repeatedly insinuated that Pakistani intelligence agents were involved.
Pakistan denies that, though it has accepted that the one Mumbai gunman captured alive is a Pakistani and appears ready to accept that elements from within its borders were involved.
Pakistan has used Lashkar-e-Taiba in the past as a proxy force against India in their struggle over the divided Kashmir region. Washington says it has developed ties to al-Qaida and the West wants Pakistan to demonstrate that it has turned decisively against Islamic militancy.
British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said in Mumbai on Thursday that Pakistan, a front-line ally also against the al-Qaida and the Taliban, must show "zero tolerance" for all terror networks on its soil. Miliband plans to visit Pakistan in the coming days.
Malik said Pakistani detectives would "inquire into" the information provided by India "to try to transform it to evidence, evidence which can stand the test of any court in the world and of course our own court of law." He appeared to rule out handing over suspects to India, saying Pakistani laws allowed for the prosecution of citizens who committed crimes elsewhere.
India indicated has that it could accept a prosecution in Pakistan if Islamabad refused to hand over suspects. "If that is not possible, there should at least be a fair trial of these fugitives in Pakistan," Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee told Indian news channel Aaj Tak on Wednesday.
The United States expressed satisfaction at how the South Asian neighbors, who have fought three wars in the and had redeployed troops along their militarized border in recent weeks, were managing the fallout from the Mumbai bloodshed and urged more cooperation.
"We would like to see more the exchange of information about the Mumbai attacks so that you can get to the bottom of exactly who was responsible, see the entire plot, and hold all responsible for their actions, and make sure that in doing so you prevent any further plots from getting to the point of execution," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.
In Washington, meanwhile, Pakistani Ambassador Husain Haqqani called on India to cooperate with Pakistan in what would be a joint investigation into the Mumbai attacks.
Working together, he said, would strengthen the war on terrorism and might provide access by Indian investigators to suspects held by Pakistan.
"The war against terrorism is our war, too," Haqqani said at the Nixon Center, a Washington think tank. The audience included retired U.S. diplomats, academics and journalists.
"There are homegrown extremists on both sides of the border," the veteran ambassador said. Cooperating in the Mumbai inquiry might lay the groundwork of restoring improved relations between Pakistan and India. They are now heading downward, a goal of the attackers, Haqqani said.
Loading....
Pakistan however needs to do more
16/01/2009
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - Pakistan insisted it would help India to bring those behind the Mumbai terrorist attacks to justice, saying Thursday it had shut down extremist Web sites and suspected militant training camps, and detained 71 people in a deepening probe.
Still, a top Pakistani official said authorities needed to further investigate information about the attacks provided by archrival India before it could be used to prosecute suspects in court.
Islamabad is under pressure to clamp down on Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Pakistan-based militant group that India blames for killing 164 people in its commercial capital in the siege and raising tension between South Asia's nuclear-armed neighbors.
Days after the November attacks, the U.N. Security Council declared that Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a charity in Pakistan, was merely a front for the outlawed militant organization.
On Thursday, Pakistan's Interior Ministry said 71 leaders of the groups had been arrested since then and that another 124 had been placed under surveillance and must register their every move with police.
"The restrictions are so tough. It's virtual detention," Interior Secretary Kamal Shah said.
Rehman Malik, the ministry's top official, said authorities also had closed 20 offices, 94 schools, two libraries and six Web sites linked to the charity. He said authorities had shut more than a dozen relief camps of the charity, some of which are alleged to be militant training grounds.
Among those detained was Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, the head of Jamaat-ud-Dawa, along with Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and Zarrar Shah, who India says planned the Mumbai attacks. Malik repeated Islamabad's call for a joint investigation into the attacks and urged India to hand over more information to assist Pakistan's own probe.
"We are fully committed to help India in this investigation," he said at a news conference. "We have to prove to the world that India and Pakistan stand together against the terrorists because they are the common enemies."
On Jan. 5, India handed Pakistan a dossier of evidence including information on interrogations, weapons and data gleaned from satellite phones used by the attackers.
India said the material proved Pakistan-based militants plotted and executed the attacks and has repeatedly insinuated that Pakistani intelligence agents were involved.
Pakistan denies that, though it has accepted that the one Mumbai gunman captured alive is a Pakistani and appears ready to accept that elements from within its borders were involved.
Pakistan has used Lashkar-e-Taiba in the past as a proxy force against India in their struggle over the divided Kashmir region. Washington says it has developed ties to al-Qaida and the West wants Pakistan to demonstrate that it has turned decisively against Islamic militancy.
British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said in Mumbai on Thursday that Pakistan, a front-line ally also against the al-Qaida and the Taliban, must show "zero tolerance" for all terror networks on its soil. Miliband plans to visit Pakistan in the coming days.
Malik said Pakistani detectives would "inquire into" the information provided by India "to try to transform it to evidence, evidence which can stand the test of any court in the world and of course our own court of law." He appeared to rule out handing over suspects to India, saying Pakistani laws allowed for the prosecution of citizens who committed crimes elsewhere.
India indicated has that it could accept a prosecution in Pakistan if Islamabad refused to hand over suspects. "If that is not possible, there should at least be a fair trial of these fugitives in Pakistan," Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee told Indian news channel Aaj Tak on Wednesday.
The United States expressed satisfaction at how the South Asian neighbors, who have fought three wars in the and had redeployed troops along their militarized border in recent weeks, were managing the fallout from the Mumbai bloodshed and urged more cooperation.
"We would like to see more the exchange of information about the Mumbai attacks so that you can get to the bottom of exactly who was responsible, see the entire plot, and hold all responsible for their actions, and make sure that in doing so you prevent any further plots from getting to the point of execution," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.
In Washington, meanwhile, Pakistani Ambassador Husain Haqqani called on India to cooperate with Pakistan in what would be a joint investigation into the Mumbai attacks.
Working together, he said, would strengthen the war on terrorism and might provide access by Indian investigators to suspects held by Pakistan.
"The war against terrorism is our war, too," Haqqani said at the Nixon Center, a Washington think tank. The audience included retired U.S. diplomats, academics and journalists.
"There are homegrown extremists on both sides of the border," the veteran ambassador said. Cooperating in the Mumbai inquiry might lay the groundwork of restoring improved relations between Pakistan and India. They are now heading downward, a goal of the attackers, Haqqani said.
Loading....
Smooth Operator
BANNED
New Recruit
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2008
- Messages
- 52
- Reaction score
- 0
Was Pakistan Complicit in the Mumbai Attacks?
After the terrorist attacks on Mumbai on November 26, 2008, tensions between India and Pakistan were ratcheted up almost instantly. While the involvement of the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is based at least partially in Pakistan, was established relatively early on, the involvement of the Pakistani government, its intelligence services, or agents associated with them has been a more controversial and enduring source of tension. The Pakistani government denies these allegations.
The Indian government recently released a dossier of evidence gathered about the Mumbai attacks, presumably in an effort to put pressure on the international community and on Pakistan to go after the perpetrators. The following is an analysis of this dossier. For the sake of analysis, I take the evidence at face value; it is possible that some information has been omitted, exaggerated, or otherwise altered to serve the motives behind its release. Furthermore, my analysis may be erroneous, even if the dossier is not.
That being said, let's dive in.
The Terrorists
There were ten involved in the attack, nine of whom were killed. The tenth was captured, and presumably is the source of a fair bit of the information presented in the dossier. All ten were Pakistani; 9 hailed from the Punjab province, while the other was from the North-West Frontier Province. For what it's worth, the British considered certain tribes from Punjab to be more "martial" than those residing elsewhere in the portion of British India that became Pakistan. Many of the Pakistani Army's recruits were historically and are today residents of this province. The proportion of Punjabis in the army is higher than their proportion of the population as a whole (two thirds of the army vs. half of the general populace). However, there is no evidence that military personnel were actually involved.
Their Training
The terrorists were taught "a basic knowledge of firearms, ammunition, grenades and explosives" including how to "handle and fire Kalashnikov rifles and 9mm pistols and also how to fabricate explosive devices. They were also imparted training in techniques to counter interrogation and tolerate pain. Besides, they were indoctrinated to become suicide attackers." It seems unlikely that providing this training would be beyond the capabilities of a group which has been active for at least 25 years.
Their Equipment
The terrorists seemed to have a standardized set of equipment - an AK-series automatic rifle, a pistol, several spare ammo clips, several grenades, and a GPS unit and/or a cell/satellite phone. Some terrorists also carried IEDs. All of this equipment is readily available either on the black market (the guns/ammunition/grenades/IEDs) or from retailers in Pakistan (phones/GPS). The latter devices were made by well-known and widely available producers (Magellan for the GPS; Nokia and Thuraya for the phones; all three brands have retail outlets in Pakistan).
Logistics and Support
Here the evidence is more mixed. The terrorists hijacked a fishing boat which transported them from an offshore location fairly close to the India-Pakistan border (if not further; this is the first checkpoint on the recovered GPS devices) to a point a mile or so off the coast of Mumbai. The terrorists also made a number of calls to locations in Pakistan, via a routing device with links to Austria. The costs associated with the latter were covered by a Western Union payment made in Italy. The only suspicious element of the call transcripts included in the dossier were references to a director of the attack who was referred to as "Major General." However, this could well be an artificial rank created by a terrorist organization, rather than concrete evidence of military involvement. One oddity is that the recovered GPS units were pre-programmed with a return route, which is inconsistent with the dossier's claim that the terrorists were indoctrinated as a suicide unit.
The dossier's narrative concludes with the following:
The evidence gathered so far unmistakably points to the territory of Pakistan as a source of the terrorist attacks in Mumbai... It is also abundantly clear that senior functionaries of the LeT were the controllers/handlers of the ten terrorists. The evidence unmistakably establishes that the ten terrorists were chosen, trained, despatched [sic], controlled and guided by the LeT which is the organisation responsible for the terrorist attacks in Mumbai.
Conclusion
The evidence contained in the dossier seems to strongly support the claim made at the end of the narrative. However, other claims made in the aftermath of its release are not supported by the information made publicly available. Several elements of the attack - the transfer of the terrorists from the fishing vessel to the city itself and the synchronization of the attack on the Taj Mahal, which included two pairs of terrorists, one of which was assigned to attack a different target beforehand - appear to require a fair amount of skill. However, the Taliban is one group that operates in the region with experience in coordinating attacks involving several hundred assailants, albeit with more localized targets. LeT is linked to the Taliban by, among others, the United Nations Security Council, whose Al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee was responsible for sanctioning LeT and its senior leaders. It is not unlikely that these related groups would actively share information about planning, training, and tactics. Unless the classified documentation provides evidence of a direct link between the Pakistani government or intelligence services and this attack specifically, it would seem premature to conclude that the Pakistanis have played more than an enabling role by accepting the presence of this group in their territory. That being said, they are fully responsible for the actions of their nationals, and should do their utmost to dismantle the supporting organs of the groups involved.
The Huffington Post
After the terrorist attacks on Mumbai on November 26, 2008, tensions between India and Pakistan were ratcheted up almost instantly. While the involvement of the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is based at least partially in Pakistan, was established relatively early on, the involvement of the Pakistani government, its intelligence services, or agents associated with them has been a more controversial and enduring source of tension. The Pakistani government denies these allegations.
The Indian government recently released a dossier of evidence gathered about the Mumbai attacks, presumably in an effort to put pressure on the international community and on Pakistan to go after the perpetrators. The following is an analysis of this dossier. For the sake of analysis, I take the evidence at face value; it is possible that some information has been omitted, exaggerated, or otherwise altered to serve the motives behind its release. Furthermore, my analysis may be erroneous, even if the dossier is not.
That being said, let's dive in.
The Terrorists
There were ten involved in the attack, nine of whom were killed. The tenth was captured, and presumably is the source of a fair bit of the information presented in the dossier. All ten were Pakistani; 9 hailed from the Punjab province, while the other was from the North-West Frontier Province. For what it's worth, the British considered certain tribes from Punjab to be more "martial" than those residing elsewhere in the portion of British India that became Pakistan. Many of the Pakistani Army's recruits were historically and are today residents of this province. The proportion of Punjabis in the army is higher than their proportion of the population as a whole (two thirds of the army vs. half of the general populace). However, there is no evidence that military personnel were actually involved.
Their Training
The terrorists were taught "a basic knowledge of firearms, ammunition, grenades and explosives" including how to "handle and fire Kalashnikov rifles and 9mm pistols and also how to fabricate explosive devices. They were also imparted training in techniques to counter interrogation and tolerate pain. Besides, they were indoctrinated to become suicide attackers." It seems unlikely that providing this training would be beyond the capabilities of a group which has been active for at least 25 years.
Their Equipment
The terrorists seemed to have a standardized set of equipment - an AK-series automatic rifle, a pistol, several spare ammo clips, several grenades, and a GPS unit and/or a cell/satellite phone. Some terrorists also carried IEDs. All of this equipment is readily available either on the black market (the guns/ammunition/grenades/IEDs) or from retailers in Pakistan (phones/GPS). The latter devices were made by well-known and widely available producers (Magellan for the GPS; Nokia and Thuraya for the phones; all three brands have retail outlets in Pakistan).
Logistics and Support
Here the evidence is more mixed. The terrorists hijacked a fishing boat which transported them from an offshore location fairly close to the India-Pakistan border (if not further; this is the first checkpoint on the recovered GPS devices) to a point a mile or so off the coast of Mumbai. The terrorists also made a number of calls to locations in Pakistan, via a routing device with links to Austria. The costs associated with the latter were covered by a Western Union payment made in Italy. The only suspicious element of the call transcripts included in the dossier were references to a director of the attack who was referred to as "Major General." However, this could well be an artificial rank created by a terrorist organization, rather than concrete evidence of military involvement. One oddity is that the recovered GPS units were pre-programmed with a return route, which is inconsistent with the dossier's claim that the terrorists were indoctrinated as a suicide unit.
The dossier's narrative concludes with the following:
The evidence gathered so far unmistakably points to the territory of Pakistan as a source of the terrorist attacks in Mumbai... It is also abundantly clear that senior functionaries of the LeT were the controllers/handlers of the ten terrorists. The evidence unmistakably establishes that the ten terrorists were chosen, trained, despatched [sic], controlled and guided by the LeT which is the organisation responsible for the terrorist attacks in Mumbai.
Conclusion
The evidence contained in the dossier seems to strongly support the claim made at the end of the narrative. However, other claims made in the aftermath of its release are not supported by the information made publicly available. Several elements of the attack - the transfer of the terrorists from the fishing vessel to the city itself and the synchronization of the attack on the Taj Mahal, which included two pairs of terrorists, one of which was assigned to attack a different target beforehand - appear to require a fair amount of skill. However, the Taliban is one group that operates in the region with experience in coordinating attacks involving several hundred assailants, albeit with more localized targets. LeT is linked to the Taliban by, among others, the United Nations Security Council, whose Al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee was responsible for sanctioning LeT and its senior leaders. It is not unlikely that these related groups would actively share information about planning, training, and tactics. Unless the classified documentation provides evidence of a direct link between the Pakistani government or intelligence services and this attack specifically, it would seem premature to conclude that the Pakistanis have played more than an enabling role by accepting the presence of this group in their territory. That being said, they are fully responsible for the actions of their nationals, and should do their utmost to dismantle the supporting organs of the groups involved.
The Huffington Post
duhastmish
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,302
- Reaction score
- -4
There is nothing much Pakistan can do here. terrorism is global issue. but as for India - we need to think of precaution factor than cure. why the politician say: we will go for war in another attack. how dare they say that - i don't want a bloody attack on my fellow citizen. we need to curb our own security we need to track down our people who help terrorist,
i hate the fact that our lazy bloody government don't wanna do anything except to blame Pakistan. we need to do something solid on our ground. then ask Pakistan to do something. take a lesson from us of A and Briton.
i hate the fact that our lazy bloody government don't wanna do anything except to blame Pakistan. we need to do something solid on our ground. then ask Pakistan to do something. take a lesson from us of A and Briton.
PureLogic
BANNED
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2009
- Messages
- 166
- Reaction score
- 0
Right. They should do many things except blaming Pakistan. The Pakistan matter should be ONE OF THE actions and not the WHOLE action.
ajpirzada
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2008
- Messages
- 6,011
- Reaction score
- 11
- Country
- Location
well next time keep ur eyes open. make sure ur radars are working and ur intelligence agencies are not eating biscuits while watchin shootout at lokhanwala. also tell ur navy to not only do exercises but also show the world that they learned something from those exercises. request ur maritime agencies to let the fishermen go if they feel sorry for them but please dont let ppl with guns enter indian water. and if u cant do this then atleast let pakistan know before hand that u have got intelligence that such this might happen.
in the end its a RAND report. they also talk about another major war.
in the end its a RAND report. they also talk about another major war.
koolio
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2006
- Messages
- 4,755
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Why is it every time something goes on in the region is related to Pakistan, as if Pakistan is responsible for providing security cover to India or Afghanistan isn't it high time that India takes the responsibility of protecting its own citizens just recently the terrorists are coming from Afghanistan to attack Pakistan's army and telling its citizens to revert to Taliban style of way of life what is NATO doing there if they are unable to control Afghanistan's border and they keep telling Pakistan to do more, what more can Pakistan do.
Pakistan is already doing its maximum other countries need to take more responsibility.
Next time anything like mumbai will happen with pak links established, India will launch war against pak and pak will try to persuade china to fight for it as well apart from providing back support.But china wont considering International obligations and repercussions of a direct war with India.So pak will try to use it's nukes (if it looks that pak is going to loose conventionally)first on strategic parts of India and India will retalliate.The end result: India will loose a few million people and Pak will become lawless with tens of millions of loss of it's people and India or china or U.S. or taliban will take over of whatever will be left of pak.
So it's in pak and India's interest that a second mumbai doesn't follow any time soon.
So it's in pak and India's interest that a second mumbai doesn't follow any time soon.
ajpirzada
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2008
- Messages
- 6,011
- Reaction score
- 11
- Country
- Location
u should definately be a strategist. the war scenario which u presented is definately too gud for a bollywood movie.
pak asking china to fight for her
china wont coz of international obligation
pak loosing conventional war
so using nukes on strategic parts of india
india retaliating
US or taliban or india or china will take over pakistan (ill prefer bnagladesh to take over wateva is left after all they were our ppl)
does any of this make sense to u?????
TOPGUN
PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2006
- Messages
- 8,689
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
We have fought or own wars and if the time comes again ! which i hope not we shall do it again we shall give a punch for a slap! restashore on that all this u said is rubish all i know is that millions will die on both sides wat will war give u nothing but just so many lost lives so your gov needs to start thinking about working together on the wot !! in peace..
XYON
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,719
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
India has effectively lost the impetus to bash Pakistan and the West is no longer interested in the GoI's continual political bakwas on Mumbai. See the following to get another insight from a GORA instead of the proverbial locals. Maybe Indians can find his familial link to our Zaid Hamid? 
Last edited by a moderator:
XYON
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,719
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
Drop the broken record like cantor.....PAKISTAN should do this or that yada yada yada!
I can assure you, it will happen again & again & again to India until such time the very reason for such incidents is not resolved once and for all.......i.e KASHMIR!
And please! your yakmaster Government said the same things when your Parliament was bonked by a few gun totting gooks and nothing has happened so far!
You see, the global power that be will not allow a nuke conflict between India & Pakistan and to whose benefit that serves the most is known to all!
- Status
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
Pakistan military officer sues Adil Raja for defamation in unprecedented UK action- Latest: muhammadhafeezmalik
-
Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts
-
Pakistan military officer sues Adil Raja for defamation in unprecedented UK action
- Latest: muhammadhafeezmalik
-
