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Mumbai Attacks

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Oh, and then there is the statement from Manmohan Singh that he did not intend to hurt Zardari. He claims he forgot that press people were standing around.

I did not intend to hurt Zardari, says PM: Rediff.com news

In a surprise clarification, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said that when he met Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari in Russia on the sidelines of the Shanghai Co-operation Organisation meeting on 16 June, he " simply forgot" that mediapersons were present around them.

The meeting had created a row in Pakistan because in the presence of media Dr Singh was seen telling Zardari that, "I am very happy to meet you but, I must tell you quite frankly that I have come with the limited mandate of discussing how Pakistan can deliver on its assurances that its territory would not be used for terrorist attacks on India."

(contd..)
 
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

EDITORIAL: Moving to Indo-Pak détente

Indian Prime Minister Mr Manmohan Singh says he has not given up on getting back to normal relations with Pakistan “despite difficulties”. He indicated the extent of the success he had achieved together with Pakistan to normalise relations spoiled by the November 2008 terrorist attacks in Mumbai by announcing that “representatives of both countries, including the ISI chief, had been involved in recent discussions”. Mr Singh had met President Asif Zardari against the background of discussions between the high commissioners of both countries, the ISI chief and the Foreign Office.

India wants Pakistan to clamp down on the terrorist groups and dismantle their infrastructure. Pakistan says India must provide proof for the legal process to take place in Pakistan sufficiently to put away the accused entities. It has had to release the chief of Jama’at-ud Dawa in Pakistan because of paucity of proof, but not without the Pakistani press complaining about inept prosecution by the police. Islamabad still wants more effective evidence from India to be able to convict the people it has captured but has signalled its seriousness in getting rid of the troublemakers.

Interior Minister Mr Rehman Malik has met the Indian high commissioner in Islamabad and told him that he had enough evidence to convict the persons in prison for carrying out the attack. The information he made public on Sunday is new for Pakistanis as well and will shock many who thought the deed just couldn’t have been done from Pakistan. The mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi is awaiting trial together with a number of operatives, and Pakistan has completed the investigation of the case 76 days after India provided the needed evidence.

Lashkar-e Tayba was the alleged culprit, according to Mr Rehman. Lakhvi planned the act, Hammad Amin got the funds and arranged hideouts, Mazhar Iqbal was the handler, Abdul Wajid was the expert of the computer networks, and Shahid Jamil was the crew member of “Al-Hussaini” and “Al-Fouz”, the two boats used in the attacks. The government is looking for Muhammad Amjad Khan and Iftikhar Ali who deposited $250 in Islamabad to obtain a VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) connection for terrorists’ communication; Shahid Ghafur, captain of the boats, and crew members Abdul Rehman, Muhammad Usman, Atiqur Rehman, Riaz Ahmad, Muhammad Mushtaq, Muhammad Naeem, Abdul Shakoor, Muhammad Sabir Salafi, Muhammad Usman and Shakil Ahmad.

This information is going to work two ways. It is going to assure India that Pakistan is sincere in pursuing the terrorists and that its demand for more evidence is not a delaying tactic but a requirement of the court of law in Pakistan. More importantly, it is going to change the mind of the Pakistani public who was shielded from information it could trust after having rejected the Indian version of events. The total effect will be the dampening of the intense bilateral rhetoric in the media that prevents the two governments from moving forward to start talking again.

The “thaw” has come three days ahead of the forthcoming 15th Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) summit on July 15 and 16, at Sharm al-Sheikh, where Prime Ministers Singh and Yousaf Raza Gilani will hopefully set the tone for the resumption of the “stuck” bilateral dialogue. Pakistan has gone through the trauma of dealing with the Taliban and has finally got rid of its ambivalence about terrorism. It now thinks that it has to come to some sort of understanding with India over terrorism that spills in from Afghanistan and queers the pitch for the Pakistan Army in the tribal areas.

The good thing about the interrupted Indo-Pak dialogue in the wake of the Mumbai attacks was that it did not make progress on other issues conditional to a resolution of the Kashmir issue. While discussions on Kashmir can go on, hopefully leading both sides to stand down a little from their maximalist positions, they can move on to more trade and investment deals, the only way to defeat the terrorists who want Pakistan and India fighting rather working as partners in South Asia. The latest development in the investigation of the Mumbai attack case has suddenly opened the door that looked firmly shut a few days ago. This is good news. *
 
JuD chief’s detention

Tuesday, July 14, 2009
SC seeks solid evidence

By Sohail Khan

ISLAMABAD: The Supreme Court on Monday adjourned till today (Tuesday) hearing in the appeals, filed by the federal and Punjab governments, challenging the release of Jamaatud Dawa (JuD) chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed by the Lahore High Court. A three-member bench of the Supreme Court, comprising Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, Justice Sair Ali and Justice Jawwad S Khawaja, heard the appeals.

It was contended in the appeals that JuD chief Hafiz Saeed and his close aide Col (retd) Nazir Ahmed were originally detained in the light of a UN Security Council resolution that declared the JuD a terrorist organisation.

On Monday, Punjab Advocate General Raza Farooq submitted before the court that Hafiz Muhammad Saeed was detained in the light of the UN resolution that declared the JuD a terrorist organisation as well as on the reports submitted to the review board by the intelligence agencies.

He told the court that the review board accepted the reports submitted by the intelligence agencies upon which they were detained for 60 days. The Punjab AG, however, said the Lahore High Court did not accept the intelligence agencies’ report. At this, the chief justice said the court has to look into the law.

“Your case is not based on your own information but relies on the UN resolution,” the chief justice remarked. “The basis on which you are curtailing the liberty of an individual should not be based on a UN resolution”, the chief justice told the AG.

Raza Farooq contended that Hafiz Muhammad Saeed was detained under the Maintenance of Public Ordinance 1960. At this, Justice Jawwad S Khawaja said the UN resolution did not talk about the detention of a person.

The court asked the Punjab AG about the detention order of December 12, 2008, and to tell whether the evidences they had provided in this regard are sufficient. The court further asked the Punjab AG to provide solid proofs of the detention.

“We will not move an inch unless you provide solid evidence against the office bearers of the JuD,” the chief justice remarked.“Tell us the law under which the accused was detained and than fit the case of detention into the said law,” the chief justice asked the AG.

Raza Farooq, however, replied that his case is totally under the MPO Ordinance 1960.The AG told the court that under the British law, the government can order detention of a person who is involved against the solidarity of the country as well as against the welfare of the people while the court cannot interfere in such matters.

Justice Jawwad S Khawaja, however, said that the British constitution is not written, while the Pakistani law is written wherein the executive and other organs of the state are bound to abide by the law of the land.

Meanwhile, the court adjourned the hearing till today (Tuesday) wherein Deputy Attorney General Shah Khawar would argue on behalf of the federal government while A K Dogar, counsel for Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, would present his arguments before the bench.

The federal and Punjab governments had filed separate appeals in the apex court against the Lahore High Court’s order of June 2, 2009, that freed Hafiz Muhammad Saeed and his close aide Col (retd) Nazir Ahmed from house arrest.

JuD chief’s detention
 
About the Chief Justice's comment -- What are the rules in Pakistan about detaining a suspect ?

In India, if you arrest a person, you have to produce the accused in the court within a day and then court can send the accused to remand based on prosecutions request. The accused must be charged of a crime before (s)he can be remanded. The exception to this rule was POTA, which was an ordinance that allowed police custody without a full judicial review. This ordinance was removed by the current govt. in the previous term.
 
About the Chief Justice's comment -- What are the rules in Pakistan about detaining a suspect ?

In India, if you arrest a person, you have to produce the accused in the court within a day and then court can send the accused to remand based on prosecutions request. The accused must be charged of a crime before (s)he can be remanded. The exception to this rule was POTA, which was an ordinance that allowed police custody without a full judicial review. This ordinance was removed by the current govt. in the previous term.

(4) No law providing for preventive detention shall be made except to deal with persons acting in a manner prejudicial to the integrity, security or defence of Pakistan or any part thereof, or external affairs of Pakistan, or public order, or the maintenance of supplies or services, and no such law shall authorise the detention of a person for a period exceeding [10][three months] unless the appropriate Review Board has, after affording him an opportunity of being heard in person, reviewed his case and reported, before the expiration of the said period, that there is, in its opinion, sufficient cause for such detention, and, if the detention is continued after the said period of [10][three months], unless the appropriate Review Board has reviewed his case and reported, before the expiration of each period of three months, that there is, in its opinion, sufficient cause for such detention.

Explanation-I: In this Article, "the appropriate Review Board" means,
(i) in the case of a person detained under a Federal law, a Board appointed by the Chief Justice of Pakistan and consisting of a Chairman and two other persons, each of whom is or has been a Judge of the Supreme Court or a High Court; and
(ii) in the case of a Person detained under a Provincial law, a Board appointed by the Chief Justice of the High Court concerned and consisting of a Chairman and two other persons, each of whom is or has been a Judge of a High Court.

Explanation-II: The opinion of a Review Board shall be expressed in terms of the views of the majority of its members.

[Chapter 1: Fundamental Rights] of [Part II: Fundamental Rights and Principles of Policy]
 
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Punjab govt disassociates from Hafiz Saeed case

Updated at: 1110 PST, Tuesday, July 14, 2009
ISLAMABAD: The government of Punjab has decided to disassociate from Hafiz Saeed case and filed a plea for withdrawal of the case.

According to advocate general Punjab Raza Farooq, the ameer of Jamaatudawa Hafiz Saeed was put under house arrest on the directives of federal government, which has failed to provide solid evidences for house arrest. Therefore, Punjab government has decided to disassociate itself from Hafiz Saeed case. A petition for the withdrawal of the case has been filed in Supreme Court, he added.
Punjab govt disassociates from Hafiz Saeed case

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The GoP has lost the PR battle on Hafiz Saeed, and increasingly looks to lose the legal battle as well. Whatever 'confidential' evidence they claimed to have on him (in their presentation in the LHC), it has so far not appeared to impress the judges on either the LHC or SC.

The PML-N jumping ship on this case is critical, given that Zardari is not trusted - it will now appear (especially if the GoP loses the case) that he was targeting Saeed to 'appease' India and the US. With the PML-N on board he could atlest claim that it was a bipartisan effort in light of whatever evidence against Saeed they had.
 
Lakhvi mastermind of Mumbai attacks: Pak admits in dossier - India - NEWS - The Times of India
NEW DELHI: Suspecting involvement of locals in 26/11, Pakistan has sought from India the interrogation reports of two terrorists Fahim Ansari and Sabahuddin held in connection with the terror attack while giving details of the probe conducted by it.

In the 36-page dossier, that contains some annexures, Pakistan has informed India about the case details of five terrorists, including Lashkar-e-Taiba commander and "mastermind" Zaki-ur Rahman Lakhvi, who have been arrested, sources said.

Besides Lakhvi, the arrested Pakistanis have been identified as Hammad Amin Sadiq, Mazhar Iqbal alias Abu Al Qama, Abdul Wajid alias Zarrar Shah and Shahid Jamil Riaz.

All the five had provided logistic and other kinds of support to the 10 Mumbai attackers, nine of whom were killed during the gunfights with security personnel. Ajmal Amir Kasab, the only surviving terrorist, was arrested.

Lakhvi has been identified as "commander of LeT" and the "mastermind of terrorist attacks on Mumbai", Pakistan has noted, agreeing with India's contention.

Sadiq has been identified as "facilitator of funds and hideouts" for the Mumbai attackers, Zarrar Shah as the "facilitator and expert in computer networks", Riaz as "facilitator through funding".

Details about 13 other absconding accused are also contained in the dossier that is being studied by the Indian side.

They are Muhammad Amjad Khan, Iftikhar Ali, Abdul Rehman, Muhammad Usman, Atiq-ur-Rehman, Riaz Ahmed Khan, Muhammad Mushtaq, Muhammad Naeem, Abdul Shakoor, Muhammad Sabir Salfi, Muhammad Usman and Shakil Ahmad.

Among them Gafoor was the captain or "tandol" of 'Al Hussaini' and 'Al Fouz'. Rehman, Usman, Rehman, Riaz Ahmad, Mustaq, Naeem, Shakoor, Salfi, Usman and Shakil Ahmad were the crew members of 'Al Hussaini' or 'Al Fouz'.

Amjad Khan has been identified as LeT organizer and facilitator in Karachi.

Pakistan wants to know the interrogation details of Ansari and Sabahuddin as it suspects involvement of "Indian elements" in the Mumbai attacks.

Pakistan has also sought the attested copies of experts who examined the GPS and Voice over Internet Protocol (VOIP) used during the Mumbai attacks.

Pakistan has also sought details about the Samjhauta Express blast probe.
 
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Pakistan has also sought details about the Samjhauta Express blast probe.

Good thing for pakistan to do......we help the indians on the mumbai attacks and the indians do the same when it comes to Samjhauta.
 
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Well Col. Purohit and Pragya Sadhvi are already in jail and last week Pragya Sadhvi's aide was arrested.
 
Col. Purohit and his associates are in jail for the Malegaon bomb blast, not for Samjhauta express attack. Apparently, the UN and US treasury has sanctioned LeT operatives living in Karachi for Samjhauta. There is another thread on this issue. Not sure what info Pakistan is seeking here.

Pakistan is justified in seeking info about the "Indian elements" in the Mumbai attacks. The truth about all those involved must come out in the open. It will help in cracking down on any jihadi sleeper cells present on Indian soil.
 
Col. Purohit and his associates are in jail for the Malegaon bomb blast, not for Samjhauta express attack. Apparently, the UN and US treasury has sanctioned LeT operatives living in Karachi for Samjhauta. There is another thread on this issue. Not sure what info Pakistan is seeking here.

So theres no problem with pakistan asking india for info on the Samjhauta express attacks is there? if it leads to the LeT arrests or if it leads to the indian army?
 
So theres no problem with pakistan asking india for info on the Samjhauta express attacks is there? if it leads to the LeT arrests or if it leads to the indian army?

In fact, it is India that will be seeking info from Pakistan on the Karachi based terrorists, who have been sanctioned by UN. Indian authorities are not moving on this case, since there is no public pressure to do so, unlike the Mumbai attacks.

Lead to Indian army? don't know how you came up with that.
 
Lead to Indian army? don't know how you came up with that.

Let me give you the example of the Malegaon bomb.

Times of India reported that first arrest is made in Malegaon blast case. This is the arrest of Noor-Ul-Hooda, an activist of the Students Islamic Movement of India. The DGP of Mumbai, Mr. Pasricha said the they are very close to crack the case and the two other suspects are Shabeer Batterywala and Raees Ahmad.
Bangladeshi suspect held for Malegaon blasts - India - NEWS - The Times of India

Times of India reported from Anti Terrorist Squad (ATS) that the prime conspirator Shabbir Batterywala is an operative of Lashkar-e-Toiba [LeT] and the co-conspirator is Raees Ahmad is from SIMI.
Police arrest Malegaon blasts 'conspirator' - India - NEWS - The Times of India

In the September 2006 incident,police investigations have determined that the explosives contained in these bombings were "a cocktail of RDX, ammonium nitrate and fuel oil — the same mixture used in 7/11"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_July_2006_Mumbai_train_bombings

Lashkar-e-Toiba and the banned Students Islamic Movement of India terrorist groups, and Pakistan's intelligence agency ISI were the prime suspects.
Following the bomb attacks, Minister of State of External Affairs E. Ahamed announced on 14 July that India would suspend the talks with Pakistan.

No it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if the same type of expolsives that Col. Purohit and his associates "a cocktail of RDX" was used in other bombings then there must be some link?
Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS

Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS - Express India
2007 Uttar Pradesh bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Weapon(s) Improvised explosive devices made with Ammonium nitrate and RDX.

From the above links you can why i am sceptical of indian claims.
 
Good thing for pakistan to do......we help the indians on the mumbai attacks and the indians do the same when it comes to Samjhauta.

Well first of all you know one thing
1) Samjhuta exp was happened on Indian territory
2) PAK didnt provide any proof regarding Samjhuta bast because they dont have.
3) Samjhuta exp was ruled out by team who are probing it and only because it tries to explore this angle, you are making huge and cry

what PAK Did provide Samjhuta Bast case proof ??
 
Let me give you the example of the Malegaon bomb.

Times of India reported that first arrest is made in Malegaon blast case. This is the arrest of Noor-Ul-Hooda, an activist of the Students Islamic Movement of India. The DGP of Mumbai, Mr. Pasricha said the they are very close to crack the case and the two other suspects are Shabeer Batterywala and Raees Ahmad.
Bangladeshi suspect held for Malegaon blasts - India - NEWS - The Times of India

Times of India reported from Anti Terrorist Squad (ATS) that the prime conspirator Shabbir Batterywala is an operative of Lashkar-e-Toiba [LeT] and the co-conspirator is Raees Ahmad is from SIMI.
Police arrest Malegaon blasts 'conspirator' - India - NEWS - The Times of India

In the September 2006 incident,police investigations have determined that the explosives contained in these bombings were "a cocktail of RDX, ammonium nitrate and fuel oil — the same mixture used in 7/11"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_July_2006_Mumbai_train_bombings

Lashkar-e-Toiba and the banned Students Islamic Movement of India terrorist groups, and Pakistan's intelligence agency ISI were the prime suspects.
Following the bomb attacks, Minister of State of External Affairs E. Ahamed announced on 14 July that India would suspend the talks with Pakistan.

No it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if the same type of expolsives that Col. Purohit and his associates "a cocktail of RDX" was used in other bombings then there must be some link?
Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS

Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS - Express India
2007 Uttar Pradesh bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Weapon(s) Improvised explosive devices made with Ammonium nitrate and RDX.

From the above links you can why i am sceptical of indian claims.

From the Indian Express from your given Link

The Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) suspects that Lt Col Prasad Purohit supplied the RDX that was used in the Samjhauta Express blast on February 18, 2007 that killed 68 passengers.

The ATS suspects Purohit supplied the explosive to a person named ‘Bhagwan’ who is believed to be a link in the bomb blasts.

You knows Word "Suspect", it dont only merely said of thinking.

and you are already declared that are. read Worlds and news carefully. and ATS find no evidence liking of that, and if PAK has , then Provide?
 
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