Mumbai Attacks

[s90]

Alex Jones CNN,BBC are always biased

 

[Robin234]

are u joking.

No,this from your own media "DAWN " and accept the facts .

From where the other 9 were?

Genome report done by US, of the other 9 dead Terrorist will prove that .

 

[Beskar]

yes and he appears there only becuase thats his comfort zone-he knows that is the only place where people will suspend logic and reason to lap up whatever he will say.
He wont last 5 min before any other audience

A person has to establish his identity in his own country first. Zaid hamid's a relatively new voice on the pakistani media. First and foremost of his priority is to address his OWN people. His Nation. And he's doing a hell of a good job in that sector. (Considering how you indians are itching all over youtube now, leaving SPECIFIC hate-mail to random pakistani youtube users)

When he's done with the domestic front, he'll broaden his horizons to other audience. Basically, if you would've had some knowledge about how things work in the "REAL" world, you'd know what i'm trying to say here.

 

[chindit]

Dawn must be an Indian newspaper .. where can i buy it

 

[roadrunner]

Dear Friend,

What UN resolution are you talking about.

Have a look: U.N.Resolution on J&K August 13, 1948

and give us your comment.

Thanks
Dabloo

We have a sticky thread in the "strategy & geopolitics" subforum that answers all this. And to date no Indian has managed to give a satisfactory explanation of why India did not follow the UN resolutions.

 

[smeaglegolum]

^^Some people want to live in their fantasy land where they feel everything is perfect and nobody could do wrong inspite of a wealth of evidence accumulating implicating those people and as we speak Let/JuD camps are shut down, their clinics, front offices are shutdown, but still people want to live in their Utopian land.

People also believed that there was no sponsoring of terrorism in Pakistan and lived in denial and see what is happening, they are hitting back very hand at pakistan and thye seem to have no answers. Same will happen in the case of Mumbai attacks, a lot of evidence is already hitting back, whole world is saying that Pakistan based elements are involved and thier all weather friend China has also supported UNSC resolutions to that effect. Let such people live in denial, they will not know what hit them and if it hit them, they will still live in denial. No body can do about such people except for leaving them to their fate.

So guys don't worry about proving the worth of evidence to people who want to live in denial.

 

[roadrunner]

Dawn must be an Indian newspaper .. where can i buy it

This just happens to show that Pakistani papers have more freedom to print whatever they like without interference from the State. The Indian papers do not have this freedom. If you read what the Dawn says, it's simply a claim by one paper that equally can be bogus, and according to the WashingtonPost report, is bogus.

I have disproven the names they gave, anyhow.

 

[roadrunner]

So guys don't worry about proving the worth of evidence to people who want to live in denial.

Yep, that's right. Don't worry about proving anything. Simply because you can't prove anything. Just rely on Chinese whispers, or odd newspaper reports here and there.

There's no proof of anything. If you could prove it, I would not be able to refute anything.

 

[smeaglegolum]

Yep, that's right. Don't worry about proving anything. Simply because you can't prove anything. Just rely on Chinese whispers, or odd newspaper reports here and there.

There's no proof of anything. If you could prove it, I would not be able to refute anything.

But it seems you GoP doesn't want to live in denial like you, they are acting on the perpetrators and some of them are under arrest. There will be no smoke without fire.

Looks like your govt. is in lot of despair and losing the game heavily on diplomatic front. Fortunately, GoP doesn't have people who live in denial, and they had to take action and they are taking them and they know the consequences for not doing so, in your own defence minister words below

We can take on enemies but not the world: Pak

PTI | December 12, 2008 | 16:51 IST

Pakistan, which has launched a crackdown on Jamaat-ud-Dawah, on Friday said the country faced the prospects of being declared a terrorist state and left with a crippled economy if it had not acted on the sanctions imposed on the terrorist group by the UN Security Council.

"There was a resolution in the United Nations Security Council. If Pakistan had not taken steps under that, then they could have declared Pakistan a terrorist state. They could have crippled Pakistan's economy," Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar said.

"If the whole world is on one side, Pakistan does not have the strength to face the whole world. We can fight against our enemies, but we can't fight an economic war with the whole world," he told�media persons�at the Islamabad airport.

Pakistan has launched a crackdown on JuD, the front organisation of the banned LeT blamed for the Mumbai terror attacks, in response to the UN Security Council's declaration of the group as a terrorist outfit, he said.

Referring to the tension sparked by the Mumbai terror attacks and reports of a possible military confrontation between Pakistan and India, Mukhtar said war was 'not to the advantage of either' country.

Pakistan on Thursday banned the JuD and placed its chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, also the founder of the LeT, under house arrest for three month. Jamaat offices across the country were sealed on Thursday night by police and security agencies. There are also unconfirmed reports that dozens of Jamaat activists have been detained.

 

[rubyjackass]

There is no doubt about that, India media didn't behaved professionally, they Blamed Pakistan, ISI and Pakistan navy without proper information from Indian officials and they are Playing their role in the current Elections as Bollywood stars and Indian Cricketers are coming on Media and are giving interviews in which they are asking for the resignation of many Ministers of Congress so they are helping BJP isn't it ?

Come on dude...
Why is that unprofessional? Media exists to report what happened. People were eager to know what was happening. I, myself, stayed through the night to see how the situation was tackled. The reason why they could report the attacks so comprehensively is because the situation lasted for 3 days.
It is not like the media was blaming Pakistan during the coverage. I watched and switched between almost all news channels. It had nothing to do with hatred towards Pakistan. But they did report sometimes about how the world was reacting and what the Indian officials have to say about the operations and the information about the perpetrators.

The more class channels reported more about the international situation and diplomatic situation. While the mass local channels gave real time feed about the flushing operations. The local channels rarely looked at other aspects except for some interviews with personnel on the site. The class channels reported the accusations of Indian authorities as they were(I mean in the form of spokespersons or press releases).

I remember especially a feed of the Pakistan FM talking to Indian FM on phone while in a press conference. It was obvious that his Indian counterpart was spitting flames. But he managed the situation very admirably(seriously,no pun intended, with all my heart), not speaking a word aloud except 'ok', 'jee' and 'I am in the middle of a press conference' . I loved him for his statesmanship(or whatever it should be called). Anyone else in his
place would have fluttered.

But not much was said about hating Pakistan. One such exception is the statement of Maharashtra CM whose press secretary obviously sucks. I dont remember the exact words. But it conveyed the meaning that Pakistan is to be blamed for the attacks. I really din't like this part. It was immature. And then he said something about the investigation.

I don't see anything non-factual that the media had projected here. Even in the case of Maharashtra CM, his views had to be made public. After all he is the Chief Minister of the state.

Some of the channels did give conflicting details about the operation like the number of terrorists and the places they occupied(in the hotels).

That was about the tv media. It is the ****** story writers of some articles in cheap magazines(that do not even have enough coverage) that wrote irrelevant stories. I actually read some which I found were funny. But the major focus of all kinds of media, after the operation had been dedicated to banging the government for its failure apart from writing about whatever evidence the Indian investigators released.

And there were such chutiyaa opportunists like Rane who wanted to gain news coverage over the dead bodies.

But the saddest thing I see is that some writers in Pakistan would not even agree that a massacre had taken place and would float conspiracy theories about RAW and hindu terrorists. Hindu terrorists never reached such capability or such ferociousness. They have no reason to. And RAW, for one thing... no nation attacks its own citizens, tourism and business. Thats suicide.
And for the other thing which is relevant to many other events, RAW is grossly overestimated. It is severely faced with internal problems associated with a non-tranparent beaurocracy. I will quote an article or two about the decline of RAW. Somebody remind me later.

The Indian media did report of arrests of local people. And everybody knew that there was local help for the plot.

On the other hand thanks this forum I got to know that there are some people floating theories about India's conspiracy. Not accepting what was being alleged of is one thing.
But blaming the victims saying they designed the plot themselves is the peak of cynicism.

And these people sitting some 1000 kms away from the scene were able to speculate that India designed the terror plot.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/17034-zaid-hamid-mumbai-attacks-response-pakistani-media.html
May be such kind of views appeal to the uninformed. People should know better.

If atleast one Pakistani replies to this post saying the content of the above link is crap, I would be happy to see that there are people who talk sense in this forum. Atleast all people should acknowledge that the massacre happened. Thats a fact.

On a different note, I should mention that Dawn reported that a man from Faridkot claimed the captured terrorist is his son.

 

[rubyjackass]

Please add this to the above post

YouTube - BrassTacks: The Mumbai Drama-Real Untold Story Part5

 

[blain2]

Admittedly both sides talked up the jingoistic line. Goes to show the relative immaturity of the media (although most of the US media also falls within the same category) on both sides of the border.

 

[Flintlock]

Could Mumbai Attackers Have Europe in Their Sights?
By Bruce Crumley/Paris Wednesday, Dec. 10, 2008

The Mumbai siege marked a dramatic and unexpected escalation of the terror campaign of the Pakistan-based jihadist outfit Laskhar e-Toiba (LeT) — and European counter-terrorism officials fear that escalation may eventually have dire consequences in the West. That's because LeT is believed to be expanding its networks in Europe. Although that activity has been limited, and largely confined to supporting the organization's efforts in South Asia, were the organization to raise its operational ambitions in Europe, it could present a terror threat on the continent as deadly as that of al-Qaeda.

"Today, LeT is the hardest-core, export-minded jihadist group in south Asia — and probably anywhere in the world," says Jean-Louis Bruguière, formerly France's top terrorism investigator who now represents the E.U. on a bilateral Terrorist Finance Tracking Program in Washington. "We've already seen signs of it at work among Pakistani communities in the U.K., Spain and even France. And there's evidence LeT has spread its influence with al-Qaeda-inspired extremists in Europe over the past two or three years."(See images of Mumbai picking up the pieces)

With Pakistan confirming LeT leader Zaki ur-Rehman Lakhvi was one of two men arrested Tuesday in connection with the Mumbai attacks — and the lone surviving assailant admitting his unit was trained and dispatched by the organization — security analysts have little doubt that LeT was behind the raid. But analyst opinion is divided over whether the audacity of the strike indicates a strategic expansion of LeT's jihadist ambitions, or simply an innovation in terror tactics. Though LeT's methods in Mumbai raised the bar of death and destruction, some experts don't expect the group to expand its target range too far beyond its south Asia stronghold.

"Lashkar has had only limited activity in Europe — mostly because its traditional focus has been on the so-called 'freeing' of Kashmir, meaning it has almost exclusively attacked India," notes a French anti-terror official who asked to remain anonymous, adding that even though the Mumbai targets included international tourism sites, the purpose of the strike was to deal a blow to India. "The potential is there for Lashkar to transform itself into a leading force of international jihad, but I'm skeptical that it's already underway. For the moment, the signs of it organizing or sponsoring attacks in Europe aren't anywhere as numerous as those involving radicals associated with al-Qaeda or its north African incarnations."

Still, even if they're currently eclipsed by the actions of other jihadist groups, militants associated with LeT are believed to have planned terror strikes in Europe. Last January, for example, Spanish police arrested what was described as a cell of 14 Pakistani and Indian supporters of LeT, on evidence that the group had been planning a suicide strike in Barcelona. British authorities, meanwhile, reported LeT links among some of the suspects arrested for purportedly plotting to blow up several trans-Atlantic flights using liquid explosives in August, 2006. French officials also believe that failed shoe-bomber Richard Reid had been housed and cared for by LeT sympathizers in Paris ahead of his thwarted December, 2001 attack.

Bruguière reveals that extensive insight into LeT was gained from the interrogation of Willie Brigitte, a French convert to radical Islam arrested in 2003 in Australia on a suspected mission to bomb Sydney's electricity grid. Brigitte told investigators he'd been trained in LeT terror camps after seeking out the group in Pakistan once the U.S-led invasion of Afghanistan had closed al-Qaeda training camps that had once attracted aspiring jihadists living in the West. Similarly, British radical Aabid Khan spent time in LeT training and indoctrination installations in Pakistan before his arrest in 2006, after flying into Manchester carrying jihadist propaganda, maps and surveillance information of potential targets in the U.S. Earlier this year, Khan was convicted by U.K. courts on terror-related charges.

Despite those instances of European radicals returning to the continent to plot actions at home, the cases of LeT-trained operatives setting up operations in Europe remain the exception, officials say. "Lashkar still tends to train recruits to inject them into their regional struggle," the French counter-terrorism official notes. "By contrast, al-Qaeda trained recruits to its Afghan camps for injection back into terror networks in the societies they came from."

Still, the official notes, Brigitte told interrogators that while training with LeT, he'd met with uniformed officers from Pakistan's ISI intelligence service. The ISI has long been accused of aiding and financing LeT as a proxy army to undermine India's possession of Kashmir; that link, the French official believes, has functioned as a restraint on the jihadist group."ISI sponsorship has meant Lashkar has had to accept limitations on its action, and contribute to global jihad via support and local partnerships with al-Qaeda in the region," the official says. "It would be very troubling if Lashkar managed to get off that leash."

Could Mumbai Attackers Have Europe in Their Sights? - TIME

 

[dr.umer]

BBC criticised for refusing to call Mumbai gunmen terrorists​

1 Dec 2008

*The BBC has been criticised for refusing to describe the perpetrators of the Bombay (Mumbai) massacre as terrorists.*​

The corporation has taken a policy decision to always refer to the gunmen in radio, television and online reports as militants despite reports linking the shooting to the Pakistani based terrorist group, Lashkar-e-Taiba. The group, whose name means Army of the Pious, is on the US watch list of terrorist organisations.

It was established to fight against Indian rule in Kashmir and has past links to both Pakistani intelligence and al-Qaeda. L-e-T was founded in Afghanistan where it has said to have shared training camps with the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

But the BBC said that it had decided, after much consideration, to carefully avoid the use of the word terrorist in volatile international situations such as the Bombay shootings, which left 174 dead and hundreds injured, because of the fear the meaning of the word could be lost in translation.

Stephen Pound, the chairman of the Labour Party Friends of India Group, said: "This is the worst sort of mealy mouthed posturing. It is desperation to avoid causing offence which ultimately causes more offence to everyone. The terrorist term is universal. The result is innocent victims slaughtered in restaurants by men brandishing machine guns. They are terrorists and the BBC should call them that."

A BBC spokesman said: "This is nothing to do with political correctness. We are not calling them freedom fighters. We are call them bombers or militants. The fact is terrorist does not have a universal meaning. It translates as freedom fighters in certain languages. We are not alone in not calling them terrorists."

"The word 'terrorist' is not banned from the BBC. BBC editorial guidelines are advisory but editors will exercise their own judgement on a case by case basis. The guidelines are aimed to support the BBC’s journalism not only in the UK but around the world and to cover a wide spectrum of global and political scenarios. They advise that we should report acts of terror quickly, accurately, fully and responsibly but that we should take care in the use of language that we use in our own scripts and reports. No one who has followed the BBC coverage of the attacks in Mumbai could be in any doubt of the full horror of last week’s atrocity."

He added: "We are implementing the same guidelines as a number of other major media organisations who also do not use the word terrorist. The BBC always reports other people using the word, such as politiicans or police chiefs."

The BBC has reported other people describing the killers as terrorists. When on Sunday Rakesh Maria, India's joint Police Commissioner, said, "The terrorists were from a hard core group in the L-e-T", the BBC reported his comments in full. It also reported those of the Indian Prime Minister who criticised the "terrorist" attacks.

L-e-T, which was founded in 1989, was banned in 2002 by Pervez Musharraf, the former military ruler of Pakistan, after pressure from the United States.

 

[roadrunner]

But it seems you GoP doesn't want to live in denial like you, they are acting on the perpetrators and some of them are under arrest. There will be no smoke without fire.

Looks like your govt. is in lot of despair and losing the game heavily on diplomatic front. Fortunately, GoP doesn't have people who live in denial, and they had to take action and they are taking them and they know the consequences for not doing so, in your own defence minister words below

Pathetic argument.

The whole world (or those with the most influence) also were against Iraq claiming it had WMD. It turned out to be incorrect.

The GOP just today have asked for the evidence and stated they have not seen any. They have arrested the "militants" so they can be questioned, and presumably given a fair hearing.

This is not proof of anything against Pakistan, or any proof that a Pakistani was involved in the Mumbai incident.

The basis of the evidence so far is only word of mouth from India (which to me carries absolutely zero credibility given the history of blaming Pakistan incorrectly), and a set of journal reports that report on what amounts to be nothing more than rumour. The Qasab name does not appear on any Faridkot electoral roll. Period.