Multan's strong Buddhist past Influence?

[AfrazulMandal]

So qurbani is not animal sacrifice?

It is much more than that.

 

[Brar]

It is much more than that.

Of course it is. All rituals are much more then the act itself

 

[Suriya]

Hinduism as in Advaita Vedanta tries to incorporates Buddhism and Buddha was even declared as an avatar of Vishnu by Adi Shankaracharya.

This can't be further from Truth.

You shd read about Adi Shankaracharya before making such bogus claim that he declared Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu.



Treating Buddha as avatar of Vishanu was first done by Jayadeva , the author of Gita Govindam, born 300 years after Adi Shankaracharya.

Jayadeva included Buddha as an avatar of Lord Vishnu in his book Gita Govindam.

 

[Naofumi]

This can't be further from Truth.

You shd read about Adi Shankaracharya before making such bogus claim that he declared Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu.



Treating Buddha as avatar of Vishanu was first done by Jayadeva , the author of Gita Govindam, born 300 years after Adi Shankaracharya.

Jayadeva included Buddha as an avatar of Lord Vishnu in his book Gita Govindam.

You agree with the first part? And is he an avatar (acc. to you)?

 

[Suriya]

You agree with the first part? And is he an avatar (acc. to you)?

Vedas-> Mahayana Buddhism-> Vedanta (most refined version of Vedas)


Buddha isn't part of Hindu puranas or Upanishads.
As i said it was started by Jayadeva in middle ages. It helped to bring last remnant Buddhist into Hindu fold. And it became part of folklore and part of Hindus moving into Bhakti traditions when Hindus were starting to celebrates Avatars.

 

[KaiserX]

Most of the inhabitants? Are you nuts?

Buddhism was always a minority religion in the Indian subcontinent. Hindus always outsmarted us in terms of population.

What you are referring to are pockets of Buddhist majority regions like Taxila, Gandhara, Kashmir, Bamiyan etc.

Same like Indonesia. Indonesia was Hindu/Buddhist mixed.

The indo-greeks of modern day Pakistan/afghanistan were predominantly buddhist. Hindu is a pretty broad term that can almost be applied to any pagan religion in south/southeastern asia. i wouldnt not compare that to the modern day brahminism prevalent in Bharat today

 

[Buddhistforlife]

The indo-greeks of modern day Pakistan/afghanistan were predominantly buddhist. Hindu is a pretty broad term that can almost be applied to any pagan religion in south/southeastern asia. i wouldnt not compare that to the modern day brahminism prevalent in Bharat today

Ok let me tell you the entire history of Buddhism before Islamic invasion of Indian subcontinent.

So Buddhism was first spread by Indo Greeks who came from Macedonia with Alexander. This was before the Mauryan empire.

When Ashoka became Buddhist somewhere around 270s or 260s BCE, the spread of Buddhism became widespread and Buddhism spread to Afghanistan, Pakistan and other parts of India. Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sri lanka and India were first country to adopt Buddhism.

After the Mauryan rule ended in 183 BCE, Hindu kingdoms emerged once again and started becoming powerful in India. After Mauryan empire India was ruled by numerous Hindu Buddhist kingdoms.

Around 30 AD, the Kushans who were Buddhists formed a powerful Buddhist kingdom and ruled Afghanistan and Western Pakistan. During this time Taxila, Gandhara and Kashmir were famous Buddhist regions.

During the Kushan rule, the Sassanid Zoroastrians started to become powerful and started dominating Afghanistan. They also fought against the Kushans. During this time Zoroastrians started becoming popular in Afghanistan and some areas of Afghanistan which were predominantly Buddhist started adopting Zoroastrianism.

After the Kushan empire ended in 375 AD, the Sassanid Zoroastrians and Gupta Empire dominated Pakistan and Afghanistan. It was during this time the White Huns under Mihirkula attacked Gandhara and Taxila. The white Huns were Hindus by faith. The white hun hindus also attacked and partially destroyed Nalanda.

The Guptas, who were ruling India now were also staunch Hindus. One Gupta general Shashanka who was known for oppressing Buddhists, fought with Buddhist Pala empire and Buddhist king Harshavardhana. Shashanka once destroyed the Bodhi tree of Bodh Gaya and he also attacked Nalanda.

After the Gupta rule ended, Hinduism became dominant religion in India once again. Soon around 700 AD, Kashmir, Sindh and parts of Afghanistan, which were Buddhists before, now became under hindu kingdoms. Afghanistan was ruled by Hindu Kabul Shahis and Sindh was ruled by Raja Dahir.

Somewhere around 700 AD, due to the efforts of Adi Shankacharya, Buddhism became weaker in entire India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Hinduism became dominant in Kashmir once again during the lifetime of Adi Shankacharya.

After 700s, Islamic invasion began in the Indian subcontinent. Many Buddhists converted to Islam. But the damage was already done before muslims. It was not like Buddhism was a shining religion before Islam and suddenly was wiped out due to Islam. The destruction of Buddhism happened much earlier before the Islamic invasions.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @AfrazulMandal

The indo-greeks of modern day Pakistan/afghanistan were predominantly buddhist. Hindu is a pretty broad term that can almost be applied to any pagan religion in south/southeastern asia. i wouldnt not compare that to the modern day brahminism prevalent in Bharat today

Also contrary to popular belief, the current Buddhist majority states like Myanmar, Mongolia, Cambodia, China, Bhutan etc got introduced to Buddhism hundreds of years after Ashoka and Kushan empire.

Many don't know this but Cambodia was a Hindu kingdom till the 14th century when Theravada Buddhism became the dominant faith of the country.

Mongolia also became Buddhist after the death of Genghis khan.

Myanmar also became Buddhist somewhere around the 6th or 7th century.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @AfrazulMandal

 

[Bouncer]

Janab, what are you talking about?

IVC, Gandhara are in syllabus.

Sir, I didn't phrase it right. IVC and Gandhara are in the syllabus for sure, but they do not teach kids that they are a part of our identity. How the modern Pakistani is related to these ancient civilizations and can take pride in the fact. In my opinion, we do injustice to our current future generations when we choose to simply gloss over these amazing parts of our history and choose to dedicate chapters upon chapters to invasion of Sindh, Mughals and then the independence movement; these are important of course, I am not arguing that, what I am trying to say is that we should teach our nation about our great history. That surely helps in nation building and actually support the two nation theory as well. Two nation theory is not just about Muslims vs Hindus. Its about people who have inhabited these lands for thousands of years vs others.

I must say that my knowledge on this topic is limited to few readings online. Would love to get your input on this. Rant over

 

[Itachi]

i was watching a tour video of Multan and couldn't help but discover some peculiar similarities in some multani shrine rituals and similar rituals observed in present day east asia.

lighting incense sticks and candles at a shrine, a strong reminiscent of hindu buddhist ritual which can be specially observed in east asia where this is very popular ritual in buddhist temples.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incense#History

Burning incense is a very old tradition. Babylonians did that and so did the people of the IVC and later generations. It spread from IVC into India, then China.

Using it in temples has been an old tradition. Now it has been adapted for many purposes too.

Some will remember this:

Same concept, different purpose.

no one noticed the gun market?

Good thing no one noticed....otherwise, Vice would go there and these would be banned also.

The trick of the devil is somehow slowly squeeze in some form of deviation. For example people praying at mazars right next to a mosque. Whereas hadoth clearly says not to make grave a place of worship.

But those same mizar goers will say oh no we are not praying towards a grave but just at it.

Quite an old trick but works like a charm.

Sir, I didn't phrase it right. IVC and Gandhara are in the syllabus for sure, but they do not teach kids that they are a part of our identity. How the modern Pakistani is related to these ancient civilizations and can take pride in the fact. In my opinion, we do injustice to our current future generations when we choose to simply gloss over these amazing parts of our history and choose to dedicate chapters upon chapters to invasion of Sindh, Mughals and then the independence movement; these are important of course, I am not arguing that, what I am trying to say is that we should teach our nation about our great history. That surely helps in nation building and actually support the two nation theory as well. Two nation theory is not just about Muslims vs Hindus. Its about people who have inhabited these lands for thousands of years vs others.

I must say that my knowledge on this topic is limited to few readings online. Would love to get your input on this. Rant over

I don't know how to break it to you but taking pride in dead idol worshippers isn't going to boost morale.

You remember the part where no weapons were found in the excavations? That's what happens when people start living in la la land.

The reason why no one focuses too much on the IVC peoples is because they're gone....their genes might have been passed onto modern day Pakistanis and Indians but they were too weak. No one likes weakness.

But, if you want to learn more about the IVC, me and many others have littered the forum with our writings.


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/implications-of-barli-inscription.661940/ (this one require quite a lot of insight)

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hist...d-its-people-rarely-part-of-india-ivc.598015/

 

[Path-Finder]

Good thing no one noticed....otherwise, Vice would go there and these would be banned also.

vice has already been there!

 

[Itachi]

vice has already been there!

I know....that's why I was hinting towards that. Is it the same area? I thought Vice went to the KPK areas whereas the video shows the Multani side?

What you are referring to are pockets of Buddhist majority regions like Taxila, Gandhara, Kashmir, Bamiyan etc.

What you refer to as "pockets" form a big chunk of the subcontinent, especially if you add in Balochistan, Sindh and Punjab, where Buddhists used to live.

You're also forgetting the spread and later suppression of Buddhism inside India.

 

[Buddhistforlife]

I know....that's why I was hinting towards that. Is it the same area? I thought Vice went to the KPK areas whereas the video shows the Multani side?



What you refer to as "pockets" form a big chunk of the subcontinent, especially if you add in Balochistan, Sindh and Punjab, where Buddhists used to live.

You're also forgetting the spread and later suppression of Buddhism inside India.

There were Buddhists in many parts of the Indian subcontinent. However places like Taxila, Gandhara were epicentre of Buddhism back then. Foreign Buddhist deligation used to visit those places.

You're also forgetting the spread and later suppression of Buddhism inside India.

The suppression of Buddhism began immediately after the fall of the Mauryan empire. But in different parts of the subcontinent, the decline of Buddhism was at different timelines like Buddhism first declined in mainland India, then in Pakistan/Afghanistan, then Bengal.

Also TBH, much is not known about Buddhist history of Pakistan and India because first of all Buddhists were living in a cluster with Hindus, Zoroastrians and many others in Afghanistan, India and Pakistan. Due to conquest, some places were Buddhists, some were hindus, again those dynamics changed.

Then Indian history has not been well recorded from 1st century BCE to 10th century BCE so who knows what happened to Buddhism.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I must say that my knowledge on this topic is limited to few readings online. Would love to get your input on this. Rant over

Much of the duty to educate about this subject is left us to us. We are the next generation of Pakistanis. It is important to create media to keep older demographics informed and interested in ancient Pakistani history.

Sir, I didn't phrase it right. IVC and Gandhara are in the syllabus for sure, but they do not teach kids that they are a part of our identity. How the modern Pakistani is related to these ancient civilizations and can take pride in the fact. In my opinion, we do injustice to our current future generations when we choose to simply gloss over these amazing parts of our history and choose to dedicate chapters upon chapters to invasion of Sindh, Mughals and then the independence movement; these are important of course, I am not arguing that, what I am trying to say is that we should teach our nation about our great history. That surely helps in nation building and actually support the two nation theory as well. Two nation theory is not just about Muslims vs Hindus. Its about people who have inhabited these lands for thousands of years vs others.

I agree 100%. Post more, I would like to see more of your views. I have some threads on Pakistani history, check them when you get a chance.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hist...d-its-people-rarely-part-of-india-ivc.598015/

Links for other threads are at the top. Please drop your insights and comments when able.

You're also forgetting the spread and later suppression of Buddhism inside India.

Islam entered Pakistan at a time of Buddhist-Hindu Civil War. Buddhists were on the recieving end and were losing. Their monks had some visions about Prophet Muhammad saws and begun converting the people to Islam when the Arab army of Muhammad bin Qasim was there.

Then the Muslims defeated the Hindu forces and liberated Sindh from the likes of Raja Dahir.

 

[Buddhistforlife]

Kids have other more important things to study.

Because this is pure BS. I am a Buddhist and I myself never studied Buddhist history in depth. I was not there in the 7th century, neither I think it is fair to quarrel on debatable historical events, even after hundreds of years.

If you go by possibilities then I can also say that there might have been an alien invasion in Gandhara which destroyed the Buddhist population lol.

Hindus or Muslims, whoever did what to Buddhism I don't care as I don't clearly know how did Buddhism really fade away from the subcontinent. As I told you I wasn't born back then.

Children need to focus more on Mathematics, Science, Economics and Finance. History is BS.

 

[HAIDER]

As the Sales Development Manager in Esso in the early 1970s, I have had the good fortune of visiting nearly every town/village of Pakistan where there was an Esso petrol station or a Reseller agent retailing Kerosene supplied by Esso. This includes all of South Punjab.

Located near the confluence of all the 5 rivers, Multan is one of the oldest cities of the subcontinent, perhaps as old as the Vanarasi because the Indus civilization is at least 3000 years old. In addition to the tombs & mausoleums of the Muslim saints, I also remember the local Sales Rep taking me to visit the ruins of Sun Mandir at Sher Shah which existed at least around 640 AD when visited by the Chinese traveler Hsuen Tsang. Understand Mulatn's historic name Mulasthana means the Sun temple (?) Additionally only the least inquisitive visitors of Bahauddin Zakaria's shrine would fail to notice the Prahladpuri temple located near it.

Regret to say that since the forced Arabization of Pakistan funded by Saudi Arabia post-Khomeini era and with the full cooperation of the bigot Zia & some extremist Mullahs, Pakistanis in general & the Punjabis, in particular, have started to deny the rich cultural history of the region; the textbooks have been altered to reflect the same. As if this region was barren land and our history started with Mohamed bin Qassim. Nothing can further from the truth.

Our majority and media failed to understand the value of culture and preservation.We can join the ranks of arabs , but we are not arab and arab knows it well....lol. For example , i love collecting the pictures of old wooden carved doors. Whenever i go to Pakistan I pickup my camera and go to old city, where we still have pre-partition houses and specially some of the villages. Where I still see the name of hindu families who used to lived in those houses..... Pakistan is amazing place and need ages to explore.