Mullen & Kayani Attempt to Salvage US-Pak Relationship

[53fd]

^^^ Well said sir! The ISI has exposed the covert operations of CIA agents inside Pakistan, unfortunately the CIA got nothing on the ISI, & its just sour grapes from Mullen. In fact, this is exactly what the ISI intelligence official said in response to the Mullen remarks:

The official said the "onus of providing proof of this" relationship was on the Americans and it was not up to the ISI "to start providing clarification."

 

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I would definitely not like it. I am more in favour of a secular nationalist government in Pakistan. However, there are some points I would like to make.
Firstly, when any leader comes, when any party comes to power, you want to see the work they do, the ideology is least important. For example, I don't like the MQM or their ideology, but I have to admit they have done some good work recently in Karachi (and some bad).
Secondly, I don't blame Zia as much for Islamization in Pakistan as I do Bhutto. I believe that it was Bhutto who started the trend and, by the time Bhutto left, the trend would have been difficult to stop for any leader, whether a Zia-type or an Ayub Khan-type.
Thirdly, with regards to getting rid of such fanaticism, several steps. One, building more schools and improving the schools Pakistan already has and making sure they are functioning properly. In my view, Imran's college is a much greater contribution to Pakistan than his hopital, because schools nurture minds, they give the youth a base to think from, and that base is permanent. Secondly, US drone attacks must stop, that is radicalizing society faster than anything, and I cannot blame those who are turning to the militants. After that, an Ayub Khan-style government, I think, would do to reign in the mullahs by any method.
Lastly, I would not want the picture you painted to occur, but, something I would be even more against, is America constantly invading Pakistan and killing civilians with impunity.

Nice reply very informative

 

[notsuperstitious]

Well accused... Never proved... If ISI was helping taliban why we handed over top Taliban and Al-qaeda leaders. Also if are helping why are they giving us aid and weapons and not putting ISI in black list. US is using ISI as scapegoat for its own failure.

Taliban were recognised by Pakistan as official government of Afghanistan.

There is not much to prove there.

 

[imiakhtar]

I think it's about time Pakistanis woke up and smelt the coffee.

Ask any PA/FC foot soldier that has served in the FATA areas and he will tell you of the underhand dealings the top brass of the military/ISI have with certain factions, including the Haqqani lot.

My uncle is an officer in the PA. In 2008, he was stationed in Waziristan and observing a new training regimen the army had introduced.

After about 6 weeks into his job, there was a US missile strike in the Aziz Khel area that killed a relation of Haqqani. In retaliation, Haqqani ambushed a PA platoon returning from a march killing 4 soldiers including an officer who was a close friend of my uncle.

Naturally, the soldiers back at base, including my uncle wanted to return the favour. However, even before they'd collected the bodies of their comrades, they received orders that they were in no way to retaliate. They were told that if they left the base, they would be on their own.

Thankfully, having previously worked at GHQ, my uncle had the connections (and qualifications) that allowed him to be transferred to the Congo as a UN liaison officer.

In my uncle's opinion, the military have given the Afghan Taliban (Haqqani, Gulbuddin, M Omar) tacit approval for cross border operations against ISAF/ANA as they pose no threat to Pakistan and work to counter India's influence in the region. You only need to visit the bazaars in Quetta and Dera Ismail Khan to see high-value ISAF targets walking around openly.

The military has got to end the paranoid obsession it has with India. Pakistan can not afford, neither from a social or monetary viewpoint to fight proxy wars against India.

Until then, the foot soldiers on the ground will continue to pay the price for Generals' personal agendas.

The only mention they will get is on an ISPR press release stating they were killed by "miscreants" whilst fighting for their country. Absolute codswallop.

For once, the US has it right. Unfortunately for them, there is nothing they can do about it. One wrong move against Pakistan, the ISI will click it's fingers, open it's borders, call for Jihad and every nut job from Bosnia to Indonesia will come running!

Carry on!

 

[mjnaushad]

Taliban were recognised by Pakistan as official government of Afghanistan.

There is not much to prove there.

I didn't know recognizing 6 years before the war is counted as supporting them now against US.


Digging up decades old relationships and calling them proves is out of my logic....

There is not much to prove there.

And there is nothing to prove ... Coz there is no prove. Just accusing and accusing and accusing.

 

[53fd]

Taliban were recognised by Pakistan as official government of Afghanistan.

There is not much to prove there.

That's different from the false accusation against the Pakistani establishment of aiding, training & providing financial assistance to the Taliban.

 

[humanfirst]

Its 10 year since pakistan joined wot and have been given a lot of military and non military aid for its participation.Why haven't pakistan taken any action against afghan taliban factions like haqqanis in its soil?

 

[Awesome]

Cancel all aid to Pakistan... Please?

 

[Markus]

Cancel all aid to Pakistan... Please?

why wait for them to cancel, Pakistan can also reject the aid.

We must be proactive in life

 

[VCheng]

Cancel all aid to Pakistan... Please?

Why not REJECT all aid to make the point?

 

[SMC]

Its good that the Pakistani people keep living in denial that there is nothing wrong with their Army and ISI's activities and everyone out there is trying to get them and these are all a part of that.

Pakistani people are in denial?

If someone is in denial, it means that there is a overwhelming evidence against their beliefs. Where's the evidence against ISI?

So guess who is in denial? Pot calling kettle black?

 

[SMC]

Btw, apparently if we're supporting Taliban, why is US providing us with F-16s, aid, lot of military stuff, etc?

These guys are seriously ridiculous. They're only trying to pressure us to attack haqqani.

---------- Post added at 09:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 AM ----------

Now US military is spreading loony conspiracy theories, akin to what they did about Iraq before the invasion.

---------- Post added at 09:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 AM ----------

Only in rare instances, the perpetrators of a crime admit to it on the 1st go..

Well of course, but if you don't have evidence to support your claim, then their denial is enough.

 

[SMC]

Taliban were recognised by Pakistan as official government of Afghanistan.

There is not much to prove there.

So now you're coming up with conjectures and conspiracy theories and then blame Pakistanis for doing the same?

 

[mjnaushad]

Its 10 year since pakistan joined wot and have been given a lot of military and non military aid for its participation.Why haven't pakistan taken any action against afghan taliban factions like haqqanis in its soil?

Effff.... How many times will we write the names of taliban and alqaeda members we captured and handed over.... Jeez man.. Try to find some new way of trolling.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why not REJECT all aid to make the point?

What aid? The US owes Pakistan a billion dollars in CSF reimbursements, and as the Pakistani FM pointed out, the US has only disbursed about $300 million out of the annual 1.5 billion KLL funds it claims at every instance.

And how would 'rejecting aid' make any sort of a point?

Trying Raymond Davis the murderer would make a point .. but you were against that.

Shutting down NATO supplies through Pakistan would make a point ... but you are against that as well.

Kicking out all non-essential US personnel, as determined by Pakistan, would make a point ... but you would probably throw a fit over that as well.

Shooting down a few US drones carrying out illegal strikes on Pakistani territory would make a point ... and you would disagree with that as well.

Anything that Pakistan could actually do to 'make a point' you would disagree with, and instead you propose something trivial like 'reject aid'.