Movement for Hazara province

[PakistaniPacifist]

PP you got the wrong Hazara. The people who live at the place Hazara are not the ethnic group Hazara, but the ethno-linguistic group Hazaarewals/Punjabi-speaking-Pukhtuns. The people Hazara who migrated from Afghanistan are Hazaragi/Farsi-speakers.

Many outsiders make this confusion. Just remember, one is the people from the ethnicicty Hazara and the other the people from the region Hazara.

Pardon my ignorance bro, I've come across a decent amount of ethnic Hazara from Abbottabad so i presumed it was referring to the ethnic group. Thanks for clearing that misconception up although i still hope this situation can be resolved peacefully.

 

[Creder]

I am finding it pathetic that somehow everything is being labeled on "bloody politicians" for no one has established that any party is behind flaming the people in the region. If you're saying that they created a mess with the rename, then that is wrong to assert for nobody had calculated this big a backlash from the people of Hazara and all of us had happy faces when the PCCR reached a consensus on the name of the province and when the 18th amendment was passed.

Hazara Pakhtunkwa might have triggered similar protest in Peshawar. None of us had calculated that such a backlash would occur. I find it repulsive that the blame be solely laid on the political class, but somehow it seems natural that such opinions emanate from the keyboards of many members on this forum.

I dont think you know what i meant by the "bloody politics"..Sparkling the province was renamed to khyber pakhtunkhwa so that these protests "would" happen. It wasnt a miscalculation on there part, it was something they wanted to happen and inorder to make it happen hazara was taken out of the original name, so the hazaran's would rally up for the cause and demand a province.

 

[sparklingway]

I dont think you know what i meant by the "bloody politics"..Sparkling the province was renamed to khyber pakhtunkhwa so that these protests "would" happen. It wasnt a miscalculation on there part, it was something they wanted to happen and inorder to make it happen hazara was taken out of the original name, so the hazaran's would rally up for the cause and demand a province.

Speculation, gossip, rumor mongering, conjuring from the sky , etc. I'm out of words. I can assure you nobody would want blood protest like this. Had they wanted it (you're implying Q and N), they would have triggered the protests but we are yet to see any sign of a political party promoting, participating or flaming such protests.

If they have been incapable of ruling this nation for long and have had their numbers filled with corrupt oligarchs and feudals, this does not mean that they are some sadists watching over while people kill each other. You're implying that Nawaz and/or Shujaat are Nero who are watching while Rome is burning so as to gain a political advantage.

Sadly, nobody can play their dice too far ahead and predict. This isn't poker or blackjack where probabilistic analysis can help you succeed. As I said earlier, nobody predicted such a backlash, rather everyone was happy at the renaming. In hindsight, it looks as if the compromise didn't pay off but it does not mean that you can predict that somebody played ball and planned everything. Conspiracy theories and gossip better be shelved and kicked out of our national mindset.

It's extremely easy to blame them for the protests for politicians are the classic "evil" character for people to blame in Pakistan.

 

[Creder]

Speculation, gossip, rumor mongering, conjuring from the sky , etc. I'm out of words. I can assure you nobody would want blood protest like this. Had they wanted it (you're implying Q and N), they would have triggered the protests but we are yet to see any sign of a political party promoting, participating or flaming such protests.

If they have been incapable of ruling this nation for long and have had their numbers filled with corrupt oligarchs and feudals, this does not mean that they are some sadists watching over while people kill each other. You're implying that Nawaz and/or Shujaat are Nero who are watching while Rome is burning so as to gain a political advantage.

Sadly, nobody can play their dice too far ahead and predict. This isn't poker or blackjack where probabilistic analysis can help you succeed. As I said earlier, nobody predicted such a backlash, rather everyone was happy at the renaming. In hindsight, it looks as if the compromise didn't pay off but it does not mean that you can predict that somebody played ball and planned everything. Conspiracy theories and gossip better be shelved and kicked out of our national mindset.

It's extremely easy to blame them for the protests for politicians are the classic "evil" character for people to blame in Pakistan.

mate look ANP has always had a majority in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, while PML who has its voter base in Hazara has always been in a minority. Now if the province remained one even under the hazara pakhtunkhwa name, politically it would have made zero difference to PML-N as a matter of fact ANP and PPP would have even gotten stronger, they could have dug into PML-N votes.

But when you have a seperate province then its a different ball game, having a haazara province will curb out ANP's influence in the centre since the seats will have to be divided up and PML-N would have a solid voter base in terms of hazara. Does that sound like speculation to you ?

 

[Wounded Healer]

I am afraid but i have to agree with Creder on this, Sparklingway. But instead of putting PML-N and PML-Q in the picture, we should be concentrating on the actions and working of the ANP.

In my opinion, all this started due to ANP's old agenda. They might be working towards a "Greater Pakhtunkhwa" and what happened in Abbottabad was just the first step. Incidently, from the reports that i have gathered, people are clearly saying that the local policemen refused to fire at the protesters , and then orders were given to the "other" policemen who had come the night before, and firing was commenced.

If you only listens to what the ANP leaders are saying, you'll get the point.e.g. Senator Ilyas Bilour said on a t.v. program that, "sirf 4 laug he toh marrey hain, koi qiyamat toh nahi aa gayi." (only 4 people died, its not like it was armageddon).

If this is the mentality of such a senior politician, then whats instore for us next is beyond me. All the senior politicians of ANP are playing down this incident as if it was just a joke.

I may be wrong, and i pray that i am wrong, but now this movement has taken a whole new level and we might expect many more casualties tomorrow.

 

[sparklingway]

mate look ANP has always had a majority in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, while PML who has its voter base in Hazara has always been in a minority. Now if the province remained one even under the hazara pakhtunkhwa name, politically it would have made zero difference to PML-N as a matter of fact ANP and PPP would have even gotten stronger, they could have dug into PML-N votes.

But when you have a seperate province then its a different ball game, having a haazara province will curb out ANP's influence in the centre since the seats will have to be divided up and PML-N would have a solid voter base in terms of hazara. Does that sound like speculation to you ?

You're doing the usual "Who'll benefit from this" analysis and that clearly puts the conclusion in the realm of conspiracy theories and heresay. PML-N has itself lost its voter base in Hazara. They speak far more than what they actually represent.

NA : 4 out of 34 on general - Total : 5 out of 43 - 11..62%
PA : 5 out of 87 on general - Total : 9 out of 124 - 7.25%

Their voter base has been decreasing in Hazara and if this is the level of agitation among the people of Hazara, PML-N has clearly lost the confidence of the people in Hazara for they must believe that PML-N cannot protect their interests.

It is extremely wrong to blame the "politicians" for a communal agitation no one foresaw.

Edit : Wounded_Healer : I was focusing on N and Q specifically. ANP, I believe, has been way too silent on this matter and to many this shows some "sinister" agenda. I heard Mian Iftikhar Hussain, the provincial Information Minister, and he was talking sense asking for peace and calm. ANP's traditional stance and historical alliances cannot be neglected but they must be bonkers to go ahead with such a move.

If the local policemen did not use force, then sending policemen from other parts would definitely have taken place. FC might have been deployed had they not have been busy in anti terrorism operations.

Sad incidents do not speak of hidden conspiracies all the time.

 

[Creder]

You're doing the usual "Who'll benefit from this" analysis and that clearly puts the conclusion in the realm of conspiracy theories and heresay. PML-N has itself lost its voter base in Hazara. They speak far more than what they actually represent.

NA : 4 out of 34 on general - Total : 5 out of 43 - 11..62%
PA : 5 out of 87 on general - Total : 9 out of 124 - 7.25%

Their voter base has been decreasing in Hazara and if this is the level of agitation among the people of Hazara, PML-N has clearly lost the confidence of the people in Hazara for they must believe that PML-N cannot protect their interests.

It is extremely wrong to blame the "politicians" for a communal agitation no one foresaw.

And thats exactly why they're support behind an independent hazara province put them on the front row. Hazara pakhtunkhwa would have further diminshed they're support in the province so they neededed to do this

Anyways we agree to disagree my friend

 

[Waffen SS]

I am with ANP with this one. They won the votes and formed a government. They represent the STATE.

AND

THE STATE COMES BEFORE ITS PEOPLE.

Crush these goons like the ones in FATA.

Heil Pakistan.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

^^^^ State is for the people and there is no link between FATA and Hazara , are you sure you are from Lahore ? well mod can check .

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Crush these goons like the ones in FATA.

Heil Pakistan.

What goons? Who started the violence? Some reports suggest it was the police and others suggest it was protesters.

Without knowing all the facts it don't start calling protesters 'goons', and especially not all protesters.

 

[Waffen SS]

If these hooligans don't like the name Khyber-Pakhtoonkhuwa, they should get lost and seek refuge in the big palace of GANJA BROTHERS in RAIWIND.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If these hooligans don't like the name Khyber-Pakhtoonkhuwa, they should get lost and seek refuge in the big palace of GANJA BROTHERS in RAIWIND.

Why should they move? Is this not their land and home? Do they not have a say in how things are run? Peaceful protest is the right of every individual (or should be) and given that we do not know who was responsible for the violence, it is unfair to blame the protesters automatically.

 

[Waffen SS]

^^^^ State is for the people and there is no link between FATA and Hazara , are you sure you are from Lahore ? well mod can check .

Am I from Lahore? To answer this please ask the mods to verify.

On the other hand, I disagree with this MUMMY-DADDY view of the state, though you have every right to hold on to your opinion just like me.

 

[qsaark]

The only solution is a fair and free referendum; ANP representing less than 20% of voters in the province must not be allowed to blackmail the rest of the population.

 

[Creder]

Well someone needs to put that railway minister bilour in check..his recent remarks and the fact that there was no response from the government to those remarks is utterly ridiculous