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Mountain Strike Corps: A Strategic Audit

The first article has a very leaning tone towards it. Its not the debate I question.

May be ...but this MSC is going to cost India a bomb ...somebody maybe trying to make it more palatable with some attempt to garnish the bitter fiscal pill ...

MSC is very important for India with regards to emergent and assertive China ...


You have to agree at least it does not have provocative titles ...like first in the world .. or first in Asia and so on ...LOL
 
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May be ...but this MSC is going to cost India a bomb ...somebody maybe trying to make it more palatable with some attempt to garnish the bitter fiscal pill ...

MSC is very important for India with regards to emergent and assertive China ...


You have to agree at least it does not have provocative titles ...like first in the world .. or first in Asia and so on ...LOL

Perhaps.. but the idea that "Strike corps will create havoc inside enemy territory".. begs the question.. "if they succeed".
It has already been discussed before that an Indian Mountain Strike corps will essentially be cobbled together using existing units. Train those in mountain warfare and give them lightweight mobile equipment and you have a specialist corps

But is it not prudent to rather rotate units into a "Mountain Command" rather than have a dedicated corps? Or if it must be, then make it a flexible administrative structure where units(be they from the south east or north west) are rotated into this post on a regular basis so that a larger number of Indian Army units have the exposure and training to fight in this terrain.

I am not sure of the costs through, although I imagine that while it would seem costly to send a unit from the south with all its men and equipment to the north.. it certainly would trump the costs of setting up a new corps.
 
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I found the article to be plausible but then I read the following and it got me wondering what kind of weed the writer was on....:hitwall:

To comprehend the enormity of the Himalayan battlefield, a basic understanding of the IB/LAC would be in order. India’s IB with China begins at the tri-junction of the boundaries of India-Afghanistan-China at the Wakhan peninsula of Afghanistan

Even senior Indian analysts need to realise that they dont have an IB with A-stan.....:crazy:
 
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Perhaps.. but the idea that "Strike corps will create havoc inside enemy territory".. begs the question.. "if they succeed".
It has already been discussed before that an Indian Mountain Strike corps will essentially be cobbled together using existing units. Train those in mountain warfare and give them lightweight mobile equipment and you have a specialist corps

But is it not prudent to rather rotate units into a "Mountain Command" rather than have a dedicated corps? Or if it must be, then make it a flexible administrative structure where units(be they from the south east or north west) are rotated into this post on a regular basis so that a larger number of Indian Army units have the exposure and training to fight in this terrain.

I am not sure of the costs through, although I imagine that while it would seem costly to send a unit from the south with all its men and equipment to the north.. it certainly would trump the costs of setting up a new corps.

There in lies the difference..no longer is the MSC to be composed of existing units..instead its jawaans will be part of an ab intio formation (ergo the long lead time) which will be an over the counter addition to the eastern command. The officers will most probably be drawn from existing units so as to have an experienced command setup.

Now on to its utility. It is needed for one simple reason- the force structure on both sides of the LAC is actually quite similar and ironically enough in numbers and equipment we have parity give or take by a margin of a single armored regiment. BUT such a picture albeit accurate factually is misleading, why, because of our piss-poor infra in the NE and even in Ladakh. The SARDAP-NE project for rapid road infra in the NE is going slowly while a large stretch of the roads in TAR are all-weather roads, this creates a rather severe problem for us, for although the formations positioned around the LAC might be at a parity with their Chinese counterparts the Chinese in the event of a conflict can introduce fresh troops into the theater with relatively greater speed and this means that once the troops are committed on both sides it is the PLA which will have the first shot in exploiting any breaches they can open up (warfare being highly dynamic, one needs to have the ability to hold forces in reserve and deploy them with adequate speed to exploit any and all opportunities which arise after contact, said opportunities can often be fleeting) by having mobilized quicker than us even though such a mobilization cannot be hidden (irony of ironies that the 3 or so weeks it will take them to bring in the divisions to build up numerical superiority will still not be enough for us to match that quantum)*. Thus the requirement of a new corps over and above the existing forces of the Eastern Command.

That having been said, the corps is not meant to just initiate an offensive but is meant to be agile and kept in reserve so that we can deploy it across the theater as and when the need arises. This MAY include an offensive push north east of Sikkim so as to alleviate pressure from say another formation which might have been over-run and to then get the Chinese to commit troops in reaction. In short we are giving ourselves options so that we too can effect some active strategies rather than fighting a reactive war.

Lastly, even though vertical envelopment of the NE is already pretty impossible, given the non-availability of "last mile" connectivity to the "border" the Chinese could very well enact a high intensity short duration campaign to slice away a portion of our territory (lets say across the front at AP up till a depth of 15km give or take), were they to get the jump on us our own forces need to be mobile enough to meet force with force in such a fast developing scenario- that too is meant to be handled by the MSC.


*This aspect of the exact nature in which mobilization on both sides will occur and exactly how time sensitive opportunities can therefore be exploited will require greater elucidation but you I know will have gotten the gist of it.
 
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There in lies the difference..no longer is the MSC to be composed of existing units..instead its jawaans will be part of an ab intio formation (ergo the long lead time) which will be an over the counter addition to the eastern command. The officers will most probably be drawn from existing units so as to have an experienced command setup.

Now on to its utility. It is needed for one simple reason- the force structure on both sides of the LAC is actually quite similar and ironically enough in numbers and equipment we have parity give or take by a margin of a single armored regiment. BUT such a picture albeit accurate factually is misleading, why, because of our piss-poor infra in the NE and even in Ladakh. The SARDAP-NE project for rapid road infra in the NE is going slowly while a large stretch of the roads in TAR are all-weather roads this creates a rather severe problem for us, for although the formations positioned around the LAC might be at a parity with their Chinese counterparts the Chinese in the event of a conflict can introduce fresh troops into the theater with relatively greater speed and this means that once the troops are committed on both sides it is the PLA which will have the first shot in exploiting any breaches they can open up (warfare being highly dynamic, one needs to have the ability to hold forces in reserve and deploy them with adequate speed to exploit any and all opportunities which arise after contact, said opportunities can often be fleeting) by having mobilized quicker than us even though such a mobilization cannot be hidden (irony of ironies that the 3 or so weeks it will take them to bring in the divisions to build up a numerical superiority will still not be enough for us to match that quantum)*. Thus the requirement of a new corps over and above the existing forces of the Eastern Command.

That having been said, the corps is not meant to just initiate an offensive but is meant to be agile and kept in reserve so that we can deploy it across the theater as and when the need arises. This MAY include an offensive push north east of Sikkim so as to alleviate pressure from say another formation which might have been over-run and to then get the Chinese to commit troops in reaction. In short we are giving ourselves options so that we too can effect some active strategies rather than fighting a reactive war.

Lastly, even though vertical envelopment of the NE is already pretty impossible, given the non-availability of "last mile" connectivity to the "border" the Chinese could very well enact a high intensity short duration campaign to slice away a portion of our territory (lets say across the front at AP up till a depth of 15km give or take), were they to get the jump on us our own forces need to be mobile enough to meet force with force in such a fast developing scenario- that too is meant to be handled by the MSC.


*This aspect of the exact nature in which mobilization on both sides will occur and exactly how time sensitive opportunities can therefore be exploited will require greater elucidation but you I know will have gotten the gist of it.

But if the approach of rotating units is used, essentially it will be infrastructure independent. After all, regardless of whether there is a dedicated mountain corps or rotating units with that experience; bad infrastructure will leave them unable to execute their tasks efficiently. The reason I see the rotating units idea as a better option is based on the Chinese superiority in numbers and deployment tactics. What the rotating units will allow(even with a smaller Ab initio corps) is a greater pool of reinforcement that could be thrown into the fray as compared to dedicated(albeit more experienced) corps(which has limited numbers). So essentially, not just officers who rotate and have experience but complete units rotate and gain greater experience in fighting in that environment rather than a single dedicated corps. This approach is much like the packaging of US armed forces.. so an Indian NORTHCOM.. would have units ready to be deployed and perhaps offer much greater flexibility to commanders in terms of force employment choice.

I agree though that this is all moot unless there is ample infrastructure to support such rapid deployment/movement in the area. Having the entire IA as a mountain corps would not make a difference if you cant get them into the battlefield on time.
 
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But if the approach of rotating units is used, essentially it will be infrastructure independent. After all, regardless of whether there is a dedicated mountain corps or rotating units with that experience; bad infrastructure will leave them unable to execute their tasks efficiently. The reason I see the rotating units idea as a better option is based on the Chinese superiority in numbers and deployment tactics. What the rotating units will allow(even with a smaller Ab initio corps) is a greater pool of reinforcement that could be thrown into the fray as compared to dedicated(albeit more experienced) corps(which has limited numbers). So essentially, not just officers who rotate and have experience but complete units rotate and gain greater experience in fighting in that environment rather than a single dedicated corps. This approach is much like the packaging of US armed forces.. so an Indian NORTHCOM.. would have units ready to be deployed and perhaps offer much greater flexibility to commanders in terms of force employment choice.

I agree though that this is all moot unless there is ample infrastructure to support such rapid deployment/movement in the area. Having the entire IA as a mountain corps would not make a difference if you cant get them into the battlefield on time.

For Mountain corps to remain mountain worthy ...they will have to be necessarily stationed in same terrain ...they can't be rotated in and out of region ...If they have to remain acclimatized ....

at least that's what I understand from medical point of view ...

that's why I think the need for dedicated mountain corps ...
 
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BUT such a picture albeit accurate factually is misleading, why, because of our piss-poor infra in the NE and even in Ladakh.

Does the Indian government still have that mindset of not building infrastructure near the border regions, or are they actually pro-infrastructure in the border regions except they lack the ability to build it at a decent rate?
 
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But if the approach of rotating units is used, essentially it will be infrastructure independent. After all, regardless of whether there is a dedicated mountain corps or rotating units with that experience; bad infrastructure will leave them unable to execute their tasks efficiently. The reason I see the rotating units idea as a better option is based on the Chinese superiority in numbers and deployment tactics. What the rotating units will allow(even with a smaller Ab initio corps) is a greater pool of reinforcement that could be thrown into the fray as compared to dedicated(albeit more experienced) corps(which has limited numbers). So essentially, not just officers who rotate and have experience but complete units rotate and gain greater experience in fighting in that environment rather than a single dedicated corps. This approach is much like the packaging of US armed forces.. so an Indian NORTHCOM.. would have units ready to be deployed and perhaps offer much greater flexibility to commanders in terms of force employment choice.

I agree though that this is all moot unless there is ample infrastructure to support such rapid deployment/movement in the area. Having the entire IA as a mountain corps would not make a difference if you cant get them into the battlefield on time.

I have opined often that we need a unified theater command with the front along the whole LAC being treated as a common front with a combined tri-services command (think USPACOM, something that will again require a tri-services chief) dealing with it. In synergistic combat lies the way of the future with all armed means of a nation mobilized and focused on to the nemesis to effect his prompt demise with extreme prejudice. Now if only the MOD will stop dithering on the issue of the tri-service chief and bite the bullet.

On a separate note, aren't you glad to have me back? Just todady I was narrating my great exploits to @Indischer and co.:taz:

Does the Indian government still have that mindset of not building infrastructure near the border regions, or are they actually pro-infrastructure in the border regions except they lack the ability to build it at a decent rate?

Oh they are building away, at the pace of a wounded man with a shovel.
 
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There in lies the difference..no longer is the MSC to be composed of existing units..instead its jawaans will be part of an ab intio formation (ergo the long lead time) which will be an over the counter addition to the eastern command. The officers will most probably be drawn from existing units so as to have an experienced command setup.

Now on to its utility. It is needed for one simple reason- the force structure on both sides of the LAC is actually quite similar and ironically enough in numbers and equipment we have parity give or take by a margin of a single armored regiment. BUT such a picture albeit accurate factually is misleading, why, because of our piss-poor infra in the NE and even in Ladakh. The SARDAP-NE project for rapid road infra in the NE is going slowly while a large stretch of the roads in TAR are all-weather roads, this creates a rather severe problem for us, for although the formations positioned around the LAC might be at a parity with their Chinese counterparts the Chinese in the event of a conflict can introduce fresh troops into the theater with relatively greater speed and this means that once the troops are committed on both sides it is the PLA which will have the first shot in exploiting any breaches they can open up (warfare being highly dynamic, one needs to have the ability to hold forces in reserve and deploy them with adequate speed to exploit any and all opportunities which arise after contact, said opportunities can often be fleeting) by having mobilized quicker than us even though such a mobilization cannot be hidden (irony of ironies that the 3 or so weeks it will take them to bring in the divisions to build up numerical superiority will still not be enough for us to match that quantum)*. Thus the requirement of a new corps over and above the existing forces of the Eastern Command.

That having been said, the corps is not meant to just initiate an offensive but is meant to be agile and kept in reserve so that we can deploy it across the theater as and when the need arises. This MAY include an offensive push north east of Sikkim so as to alleviate pressure from say another formation which might have been over-run and to then get the Chinese to commit troops in reaction. In short we are giving ourselves options so that we too can effect some active strategies rather than fighting a reactive war.

Lastly, even though vertical envelopment of the NE is already pretty impossible, given the non-availability of "last mile" connectivity to the "border" the Chinese could very well enact a high intensity short duration campaign to slice away a portion of our territory (lets say across the front at AP up till a depth of 15km give or take), were they to get the jump on us our own forces need to be mobile enough to meet force with force in such a fast developing scenario- that too is meant to be handled by the MSC.


*This aspect of the exact nature in which mobilization on both sides will occur and exactly how time sensitive opportunities can therefore be exploited will require greater elucidation but you I know will have gotten the gist of it.


@Hyperion Damn it! I wish I was heading our MoD, tum logon ko seedha kardeta 5 saal ke pehele tenure me.:devil: Btw I hear our brother Jalebi just made Mod...remember when we prospected him and marked him as a talent?
 
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Why is it going so slowly though?



I knew it. :P

Because the current government can't get free from trying to distinguish its head from its arse..an unfortunate side effect of having its head stuck up its...only once in all these matters in the last 5 years have they reacted properly.
 
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Does the Indian government still have that mindset of not building infrastructure near the border regions, or are they actually pro-infrastructure in the border regions except they lack the ability to build it at a decent rate?

BRO has mastered the art of developing infrastructure in border regions, but GOI always slowed it's pace b'coz it thought that infrastructure can make it easy for the Chinese to enter/capture more & more Indian territory in case of war.
 
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For a dinner which involved reshmi kebab & Sheermal.. if you know the delightful thing.

While I languished and tried to find succor is some oily biryani from this rancid takeaway..someday I am going to string you up..now the customary compliments..the lemur demands it..
 
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