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Most teenage girls exploiters in UK are of Pakistani origin, says Sajid Javid

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His data is false. A report landed on his desk which he utilises to leverage political interest.


Does it matter? He is neither the first and nor the last to have stated it.

Can you post us the ethnicity profile to debunk him please?

Personally, I have always opposed Rape Threads on PDF (there is a policy on it too) But Pakistani members revel in posting it (hey, if India, post only that). As if rape is not an issue for their society. Whereas, the issue is of violence against women being an issue in your country too, is very well documented.

There are members who show this very mentality with 'Bitch' so and so posts, thread after thread!

It remains the ugly face of the society. The earlier it is accepted, the earlier steps to remedy it are taken.
 
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According to the same report 100 per cent of recorded Type 2 group offenders, who abuse children because of long-standing paedophilic interest, are white.

whites are the primary patrons of child prostitutes in thailand and cambodia. it is sick to the degree some of those people go
 
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Does it matter? He is neither the first and nor the last to have stated it.

Can you post us the ethnicity profile to debunk him please?

Personally, I have always opposed Rape Threads on PDF (there is a policy on it too) But Pakistani members revel in posting it (hey, if India, post only that). As if rape is not an issue for their society. Whereas, the issue is of violence against women being an issue in your country too, is very well documented.

There are members who show this very mentality with 'Bitch' so and so posts, thread after thread!

It remains the ugly face of the society. The earlier it is accepted, the earlier steps to remedy it are taken.

You can refer to: https://theukdatabase.com/uk-child-abusers-named-and-shamed/facts-and-stats-on-child-abuse/
 
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Yep. Leaving asides our political differances you know within living memory in 1943 Britain oversaw the mass famine in Bengal that caused the deaths of 3 million people. Think about that. 3 million. That is genocide and only slightly less the Jewish deaths in the holocaust or the much touted Armenian massacre. But when was the last time you heard anything about that?
It's mentioned in India all the time.
 
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What's disturbing is that people in this thread are almost non chalantly blaming the girls. They are kids from broken homes for crying out loud. They aren't capable of taking mature decisions and lack adults in their lives. They need guidance and counseling, not excuses for why they are being groomed.
 
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Yes, read my first post. It debunks it there.


This one as under?

This is absolute nonsense.

Official UK Freedom of Information Request 2004 - 2013
(for the number of sexual crimes committed)


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/265551/response/659463/attach/html/4/FOI 35307 lestat.xls.html
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/265551/response/659463/attach/html/3/FOI 35307 Lestat.pdf.html

Fact Checking.

In 2013, CEOP published a study looking at “contact sexual offending against children by non-related adults”. They found that there are two types of group-based abuse.
  • “Type 1” group abuse involves targeting a victim, or victims, based on their vulnerability.
  • “Type 2” group abusers are defined as having “a longstanding sexual interest in children”.
“The focus here appears to be on the sexual abuse of teenagers and young adults on the basis of their vulnerability, rather than as a result of a specific preferential sexual interest in children […] CEOP assesses that type 1 offenders are unlikely to identify themselves as having a sexual interest in children, but molest children because they are vulnerable to sexual exploitation.”

Type 2 groups operate in a way that’s often characterised as a paedophile “ring”. In other words, these offenders are not simply targeting children because they are vulnerable, but because they are children.

It reports on a sample of 57 cases of Type 1 group abuse in 2012, and police provided ethnicity data on 52 of these. Half of those Type 1 cases involved all-Asian groups. 21 per cent were all-white groups, and 17 per cent were groups containing multiple ethnicities.

There was a sample of 6 cases of Type 2 group abuse in 2012, and police provided ethnicity data.

100 per cent of recorded Type 2 group offenders, who abuse children because of long-standing paedophilic interest, are white.

Now compare this small subset of a small sample of a data base, to national statistics.

This news and post by OP is based on politically motivated headlines. And a gross bias and misrepresentation.

Its just a propaganda war to associate death, murder, rape, violence, evil and all things inhuman with a brown face.

If so:

1. The data is, by itself, dated.
2. Quoting from your reference:

"The ethnicity information requested is not held by the Home Office."

source: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/265551/response/659463/attach/html/3/FOI 35307 Lestat.pdf.html

And the excel sheet is not illustrative of the ethnicity or nationality distribution.

So, it does not debunk the Minister as far as I can make out.

Refer your claim as under:

100 per cent of recorded Type 2 group offenders, who abuse children because of long-standing paedophilic interest, are white.

Sorry, could not make that out as a reasonable inference from your links.

If any other post, please do guide me.

Thanks

What's disturbing is that people in this thread are almost non chalantly blaming the girls. They are kids from broken homes for crying out loud. They aren't capable of taking mature decisions and lack adults in their lives. They need guidance and counseling, not excuses for why they are being groomed.


Rather antithetical, wouldn't you say?

It's mentioned in India all the time.

Hint: There is no India prior to 1947 as per him!
 
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Here is the original interview and article

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46684638

It's the express tribune busy spreading propaganda in the country.
Some one needs to do something about them and Dawn already.

Not surprising. UK should stop giving citizenship to the Pakistani nationals if it wants to save its children from getting groomed, abused and raped.

They should give citizenship to the Bangladeshis whose new viral hero is right here below
But guess what, No one is inviting Bangladeshis to their countries anymore. Even gulf states banned visas for you.
Wonder why?
 
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This one as under?



If so:

1. The data is, by itself, dated.
2. Quoting from your reference:

"The ethnicity information requested is not held by the Home Office."

source: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/265551/response/659463/attach/html/3/FOI 35307 Lestat.pdf.html

And the excel sheet is not illustrative of the ethnicity or nationality distribution.

So, it does not debunk the Minister as far as I can make out.

Refer your claim as under:

100 per cent of recorded Type 2 group offenders, who abuse children because of long-standing paedophilic interest, are white.

Sorry, could not make that out as a reasonable inference from your links.

If any other post, please do guide me.

Thanks




Rather antithetical, wouldn't you say?

THE REPORT, that this news story is based on is the CEOP Report.

The report looks at two types of groups of offenders, Type 1 'Attackers based on vulnerability' and Type 2 'Paedophiles'

The report concludes on the ethnicity of two groups, from a case of 57 type 1 cases, and 6 type two cases in the year 2012.

Half of those Type 1 cases involved all-Asian groups. 21 per cent were all-white groups, and 17 per cent were groups containing multiple ethnicities.

100 per cent of recorded Type 2 group offenders, who abuse children because of long-standing paedophilic interest, are white.

The Report is a small sample of a single year, of a particular statistical grouping. You may refer to the FOI link to see the number (thousands) of child offences in the year. Compare a conclusion based in this data that made a headline and the number of offences.

You can even look at Wikipedia.

The true number of offences remains doubtful, generally assumed to be larger, due to expected unreported cases of child abuse.[7] Some 90% of the sexually abused children were abused by people who they knew, and about one out of every three abused children did not tell anyone else about it.[2] The vast majority of child sex offenders in England and Wales are male, with men representing 98% of all defendants in 2015/16, and white, with whites representing 85% of convicted child sex offenders and 86% of the general population in 2011. Asians represent 8% of the general population of England and Wales as of 2011. A 2011 analysis by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Command of 940 possible offenders reported for "street grooming and child sexual exploitation" found that 38% were white, 36% were Asian, while 32% were of an unknown ethnicity.[8]
 
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Thanks. Can you point to me the paragraph where it mentions ethnic breakdown to debunk the Minister's claim?


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46684638
Read up there, original article.
High proportion is not same as "most".
High proportion of water in milk would be 10%, 20%, 30%. Anymore and its called "half" and definitely not 80% because then its water and not milk.
I hope this logic and English helps with your comprehension issues?
 
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46684638
Read up there, original article.
High proportion is not same as "most".
High proportion of water in milk would be 10%, 20%, 30%. Anymore and its called "half" and definitely not 80% because then its water and not milk.
I hope this logic and English helps with your comprehension issues?

No, its not even a higher proportion.

CLAIM: Pakistani men are disproportionately involved in grooming gangs.


Following the high profile conviction of eighteen people in Newcastle found guilty of a catalogue of offences including rape and conspiracy to incite prostitution there has been a lot of discussion in the media about so-called grooming gangs. In particular there has been a lot of debate over what role, if any, ethnicity and cultural backgrounds play in both grooming and child sex offences more widely.

The information we have about this is patchy and has a lot of problems. It also tends to focus on England and Wales rather than the whole of the UK. Studies on those involved in grooming children do suggest that a disproportionate number of offenders are categorised as being of Asian ethnicity. The proportion of offenders or suspected offenders varies from study to study, but was anywhere from 27% to 75% in the studies we looked at. These studies all vary slightly in the way they analyse the offenders and suspected offenders and the level of response they received from child protection agencies across the country.

The government told us that it doesn’t routinely publish information on the ethnicity of people convicted of wider sexual offences. What is available suggests that the majority of offenders are white.

In the overall population of England and Wales 86% of people were white in 2011 (at the last census), 8% of the population was of Asian ethnicity, and 3% was black. Of course this will vary from place to place around the country.

Researchers point out that the disproportionate representation of people of Asian ethnicity in studies on grooming gangs may be caused by a number of things including: bias in the collecting of information, the high profile nature of similar cases, and small sample sizes. This might mean, for example, that when recording information about offenders or suspected offenders, the organisations involved are more likely to record ethnicity if the person is Asian. Or it might mean that, because they had seem similar cases in the media, child protection organisations look out for specific types and patterns of grooming and abuse more than others leading to similar types of groups being caught.

A large proportion of cases in these studies also have the ethnicity of the offender recorded as unknown, so this could potentially affect the reliability of the information on ethnicities that we do know. In many of the cases no more information was known other than that the offender was described as Asian. This could cover a wide variety of ethnicities and nationalities like Chinese, Pakistani, Indian as well as a range of British-Asian ethnicities, depending on the study.

Problems with the data on grooming gangs
There were over 1,200 cases of sexual grooming recorded by police in England and Wales in 2016/17. The scale of this, and other sexual offences against children, is difficult to measure as in many cases it goes unreported.

Naz Shah’s office pointed us towards research done by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP) and Office of the Children’s Commissioner as the source of her claim that a disproportionate number of Pakistani men were involved in grooming gangs.

In 2011 CEOP published an analysis of possible offenders who had been reported to it for “street grooming and child sexual exploitation”. CEOP said that offenders in these cases often act in groups.

It analysed over 1,200 of these possible offenders and found the vast majority were male. Around 30% were white, 28% Asian and 3% black and 38% were unknown. When CEOP looked only at a group of around 940 offenders that it had better information for it found around 38% were white, 32% were unknown, 26% were Asian and 3% were black.

At first glance this would seem to suggest that the group identified as Asian are overrepresented (compared to the proportion of Asian people in the general population) but CEOP said that the data was too inconsistent to draw “national conclusions” from. It said more research was needed to see whether the results were affected by “unconscious bias” in child protection agencies, the demographics of local areas or if there were issues in the community that needed to be addressed.

Another study by CEOP from 2013 looked at data collected from 31 police forces. It found that of around 300 offenders whose ethnicity was provided and who were part of groups targeting children based on their vulnerability (rather than because they had a specific sexual interest in children), 75% had been categorised as Asian and 17% as white, 5% were listed as black and 3% as Arab. Of the groups who did target children based on a sexual interest in them (fewer than 20 people studied) all were white.

In this case CEOP said that the sample size was too small and more research needed to be done. The National Crime Agency (which CEOP is part of) told us that it hadn’t published any research into the specific issue of gangs and grooming more recently.

High profile grooming cases can mean that professionals involved in child protection can look out for specific types and patterns of abuse more than others, according to the Office of the Children’s Commissioner in 2012.

It also said that in some cases organisations were more likely to record the ethnicity of a suspect if they were a particular ethnicity or nationality—for example if they were Asian.

The data it had collected was based on the reports of victims. It found that 36% of perpetrators of child sexual exploitation in gangs or groups were white, 27% Asian, 16% black and 16% not disclosed.

We’ve looked at this issue in the past following other high profile trials for child grooming.

Little information is available on the ethnicity of those convicted of sexual offences against children more widely
Naz Shah’s office pointed us towards several newspaper articles written by Nazir Afzal, former Chief Crown Prosecutor for the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), as the source of her statement that nearly 90% of people convicted of child abuse offences were white men. Mr Afzal had said that between 80% and 95% of offenders were white males.

We contacted the CPS who provided us with the information they publish on defendants in child sex abuse cases. 98% of defendants were male in 2015/16, but no information about the ethnicity of the defendants was published. We then submitted a freedom of information request to the CPS asking for information on the ethnicity of defendants prosecuted in child sex abuse cases.

It provided us with data on the number of defendants prosecuted for sex offences in cases flagged as relating to child abuse in 2015/16. It also included the ethnicity of those defendants.

Of the 6,200 or so defendants in these prosecutions, 67% were white, 4% were Asian, 3% were black, 1% were mixed race and 1% were other. For 24% of defendant’s there was no information on their ethnicity. Of all these prosecutions, around three quarters resulted in a conviction.

The information on defendant’s ethnicity came from information given by the defendants to police, the CPS told us that “It follows that there may be errors or omissions at local levels”.

There are other figures published by the government on those found guilty of offences against children, but these aren’t as recent. Almost 85% of offenders found guilty of sexual activity with a minor in England and Wales in 2011 were white. 3% were black and 4% were Asian and the rest were either listed as ‘other’ or unknown.

But these figures don’t tell us everything about sexual offences committed against children. For example, if someone is found guilty of raping a child under the age of 16, this will appear in the figures under ‘rape’ rather than ‘sexual activity with a minor’.

Where offenders’ ethnicity was known, 81% of people convicted of sexual offences in 2014 were white, 7% were black and 9% were Asian in 2014. These proportions were similar over the previous four years. The government told us it doesn’t regularly publish information on the ethnicity of those found guilty of sexual offences so there is no more recent information.




https://fullfact.org/crime/what-do-...le-involved-sexual-offences-against-children/
 
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THE REPORT, that this news story is based on is the CEOP Report.

I went through the links in your comment as quoted earlier. I did not find any such inference that allows you to make the claim of 100% as claimed by you. I do hope you understand that a data set has to be representative of the period under reference.

The Report is a small sample of a single year, of a particular statistical grouping.

You may understand that the same may be written off to a sampling bias or selection bias, whichever you may choose.

Thanks
 
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I went through the links in your comment as quoted earlier. I did not find any such inference that allows you to make the claim of 100% as claimed by you. I do hope you understand that a data set has to be representative of the period under reference.

The claim is the report. There are two groups type 1 and type 2, did you get that bit? And the bit about the description of the groups. The claim is published here:

100 per cent of recorded Type 2 group offenders, who abuse children because of long-standing paedophilic interest, are white.


https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/what-do-we-know-about-the-ethnicity-of-sexual-abuse-gangs
 
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