Most Dangerous Battle Tanks in Pakistani Service: From Al Khalid I to the T-80

[Raja Porus]

Please yar this topic has been discussed to death. Why you people always quote assymetrical conflicts with conventional ones.

??

 

[Inception-06]

UG has better fcs/gcs, optics, ecs etc. UD has better armor, engine.

Why Pakistan armoured Corps has not installed a storage cage on the T-80s ? Do you see any sense this time in this hanging forward scirts and turret-scirts of the T-80s, if so wouldn’t it be clever to cooperate this innovation on all Tanks, like Alkhalid series etc. ? Or is it not really necessary ?

This question goes also to @HRK and @PanzerKiel

 

[iLION12345_1]

T-85 always had 730 hp engine, it has not received engine upgrade
View attachment 708675

In fact If I am not mistaken it was AZ series which received T-85 engine as part of upgrade package

it is optional as shown above in brochure of T-85-IIAP same can be seen below attached pic t the side and front of the turret

View attachment 708679

I’m not too sure about that, I know that The Type 85 had a 730HP engine originally but I think it wasn’t the same engine and it’s been upgraded (I believe the original one wasn’t dual turbocharged and the new one is. (Which might mean more torque in this case.) Or maybe you are correct. Maybe Dazzler can clarify.
And the ERA is on the Chinese variant, I’ve never seen a Pakistani Type 85 with it, I was wondering if we could add ERA to that (it’s obvious we can, more of if we will/if it’s feasible with the weight)

UG has better fcs/gcs, optics, ecs etc. UD has better armor, engine.

So the UDs aren’t getting any upgrades?

 

[Inception-06]

@HRK what special urban fighting capabilities does the Alkhalid -1 offer as claimed by HIT ?

 

[Raja Porus]

@HRK what special urban fighting capabilities does the Alkhalid -1 offer as claimed by HIT ?

View attachment 709177

Hmm. Good question.
Btw kopieren means to copy and Nachschlagen means share?

 

[Inception-06]

Hmm. Good question.
Btw kopieren means to copy and Nachschlagen means share?

Exactly. Have you seen the movie Stalingrad ?

 

[Raja Porus]

Exactly. Have you seen the movie Stalingrad ?

Nien mein fruend. But i have seen Enemy at the Gates

 

[Dazzler]

I’m not too sure about that, I know that The Type 85 had a 730HP engine originally but I think it wasn’t the same engine and it’s been upgraded (I believe the original one wasn’t dual turbocharged and the new one is. (Which might mean more torque in this case.) Or maybe you are correct. Maybe Dazzler can clarify.
And the ERA is on the Chinese variant, I’ve never seen a Pakistani Type 85 with it, I was wondering if we could add ERA to that (it’s obvious we can, more of if we will/if it’s feasible with the weight)


So the UDs aren’t getting any upgrades?

Yes they are. Around 80 upgraded ones will be inducted soon.

Why Pakistan armoured Corps has not installed a storage cage on the T-80s ? Do you see any sense this time in this hanging forward scirts and turret-scirts of the T-80s, if so wouldn’t it be clever to cooperate this innovation on all Tanks, like Alkhalid series etc. ? Or is it not really necessary ?

This question goes also to @HRK and @PanzerKiel

UDs have ammo boxes instead of storage cage which was typical of Soviet/ Ukrainian mbts. Even Oplot lacks it

 

[volatile]

Its a sorry state of affair ,I mean other then VT`s the capability is like 2nd generation most .Al Khalid program is/was disappointing as it fails to fulfill the role or vision it was intended for .Al-Zarrar`s are again sitting ducks .I mean its very sad to see armour division in such a bad shape .Now for improvement part .I think a national program has to be launched immediately to improve survivability of these assets and i believe Trophy type system should be incorporated on all tanks irrespective of there make/model or role .Ukraine Oplots are an option but i think mother Russia has more potent armour which can be looked into .

 

[iLION12345_1]

O

Yes they are. Around 80 upgraded ones will be inducted soon.


UDs have ammo boxes instead of storage cage which was typical of Soviet/ Ukrainian mbts. Even Oplot lacks it

Okay, thanks for the clarification. Will be nice to see the UDs getting upgrades. They still have alot of life left.

Its a sorry state of affair ,I mean other then VT`s the capability is like 2nd generation most .Al Khalid program is/was disappointing as it fails to fulfill the role or vision it was intended for .Al-Zarrar`s are again sitting ducks .I mean its very sad to see armour division in such a bad shape .Now for improvement part .I think a national program has to be launched immediately to improve survivability of these assets and i believe Trophy type system should be incorporated on all tanks irrespective of there make/model or role .Ukraine Oplots are an option but i think mother Russia has more potent armour which can be looked into .

What’s that supposed to mean? AK? Second gen? What’s Second Gen about the AK? There’s tanks made in the west that are nowhere near the performance of AK-1 but are considered 3rd Gen. (check Italian and polish tanks, even the Merkava is highly overrated, the original T80 was third Gen and so was the Original T90 and they’re both nowhere near AK/AK-1)

Pakistan needs a tank that fits it’s need. Pakistan is not going to be fighting 65 Ton Abrams, Leos or Challenger 2s nor will we be fighting T-14s. So why make an extremely heavy, expensive logistical nightmare that we won’t need?

The most advanced tank India has is a T90S and their ammo is highly outdated. AK-1 is superior to Indian T90S in terms of armament and NV capability. AKs also have third Gen thermals, CITVs, IBMS. T90S would be superior in Protection and mobility would be similar. What more do you want them to do with the AK? Put lasers on it?

If India Gets Newer T90 variants, we have VT-4s, probably the most advanced tanks in South Asia right now. So technically we’re ahead at the moment. Plus the UDs are getting upgraded.

Lastly India has many T72s, which are second generation tanks. So how is AZ and Type 85 (both superior to T72s in armament, FCS, GCS but inferior in protection) sitting ducks? They’re perfect second line tanks for Pakistan’s environment, doctrine and enemy. And We don’t even need to mention then mighty Arjun.

The last thing people need to remember is that India can’t put all of its forces to fight Pakistan. They have two major enemies, we have one. They need to put a big portion, if not a majority if it, to counter China. India’s numerical advantage is literally only on paper and not in reality. That’s why we don’t need to match their numbers 1:1. In a realistic case the numbers would be similar on the battlefield.

Sure everything is not ideal, but you can have idealism when you need to be aware of budget constraints. I don’t mean to be rude but if you’re gonna go down the usual “shopping list path” of “why don’t we induct abrams from America, T-14 from Russia and ask USA to build us F36 fighters because F35 obviously isn’t good” then you shouldn’t be commenting on a defense forum.
Where does the trophy type system come from? Mars? India has no APS systems and we can induct GL-5 on VT4 and maybe even AK-2 if needed, it’s just not priority, numbers are.
Do you really believe Russia would sell us Armor and ERA technology that it doesn’t even sell to India?
Please. Be realistic.

 

[Signalian]

I mean its very sad to see armour division in such a bad shape .

6th is getting new tanks. 1st has UDs.

 

[Signalian]

urban fighting capabilities does the Alkhalid -1 offer as claimed by HIT ?

If they had put this urban fighting capability kit on AK and used it in Urban Ops, it would have been good marketing for AK, when tanks are falling apart in built up areas all over the globe.

 

[Dazzler]

Its a sorry state of affair ,I mean other then VT`s the capability is like 2nd generation most .Al Khalid program is/was disappointing as it fails to fulfill the role or vision it was intended for .Al-Zarrar`s are again sitting ducks .I mean its very sad to see armour division in such a bad shape .Now for improvement part .I think a national program has to be launched immediately to improve survivability of these assets and i believe Trophy type system should be incorporated on all tanks irrespective of there make/model or role .Ukraine Oplots are an option but i think mother Russia has more potent armour which can be looked into .

You have no clue.

 

[Inception-06]

If they had put this urban fighting capability kit on AK and used it in Urban Ops, it would have been good marketing for AK, when tanks are falling apart in built up areas all over the globe.

Urban warfare kit, 2 Machine Guns on the turret with closed gun shields, dozer shield on the front, Cage armor etc.

Nien mein fruend. But i have seen Enemy at the Gates

Der Tigerkommandant Michael Wittmann - Do you know Tank Commander Wittmann, this guy alone busted with single Tank a whole British Tank Regiment ! Destroyed ca.25 Tanks and Surplus apc, trucks . Something like this you will never expect and see from a Indian Tank Commander, but chances are there that Pakistanis are capable to write history !

 

[Raja Porus]

Der Tigerkommandant Michael Wittmann - Do you know Tank Commander Wittmann, this guy alone busted with single Tank a whole British Tank Regiment ! Destroyed ca.25 Tanks and Surplus apc, trucks . Something like this you will never expect and see from a indian, but chances are there that Pakistanis are capable write history !

Yes i know wittman, on le of the many German tank aces

Thanks for the compliment. We did infact at Chawinda, waiting for another chance