Mosque attacked with petrol bomb in UK

[Developereo]

If we deport/lock up all radicals,all rioters,stop unchecked immigration of large masses of poor illiterates and don't involve our nations in foreign wars i think will be ok..If a rogue nation comes close to have nukes,a fast ,surgical military intervention to destroy their nuclear capabilities will suffice.

Shut the gate,man the walls and go about our daily lives.

Then you really don't understand social dynamics.

In every society, there is stratification: there are the haves and the have-nots; the elite and the disenfranchised at the two extremes.

With careful media manipulation, the attention of the masses, especially the disenfranchised, can be focused on convenient scapegoats so the masses can vent their frustrations in that direction. This way they will have less time to make trouble for the elites; they can even feel smugly self-righteous and superior in the balance. If the elites look down upon them, they, in turn, can look down on someone else. Oh joy!

If you remove (Muslim) immigrants as the scapegoats, society will need some other scapegoats to keep the masses occupied. This has been the pattern throughout history and across societies.

And, with the Muslims gone, the next scapegoat might just be you!

 

[flamer84]

hmmm.. Please do this...

We're trying to convince our politicians,they don't listen as they live in their ivory towers.Soon,they to will be brought down in the real world.

 

[flamer84]

Then you really don't understand social dynamics.

In every society, there is stratification: there are the haves and the have-nots; the elite and the disenfranchised at the two extremes.

With careful media manipulation, the attention of the masses, especially the disenfranchised, can be focused on convenient scapegoats so the masses can vent their frustrations in that direction. This way they will have less time to make trouble for the elites; they can even feel smugly self-righteous and superior in the balance. If the elites look down upon them, they, in turn, can look down on someone else. Oh joy!

If you remove (Muslim) immigrants as the scapegoats, society will need some other scapegoats to keep the masses occupied. This has been the pattern throughout history and across societies.

And, with the Muslims gone, the next scapegoat might just be you!

To some europeans I am allready a scapegoat("romanians come to steal!,,they take our jobs!" etc,etc) but i understand them.
Every country has its criminals and that is precisely why it does not need some imported ones.It's not logical ,why bring lots of poor people that the state has to pay? If somebody comes to work,prooves that he has a job,comes to study,prooves that he can pay his bills they are a welcomed adittion,if not ,they are simply a nuisance on allready heavy breathing economies.It's just not worth it,Europe it's not a big welfare shelter for everybody,we have our own problems.

 

[livingdead]

Point taken,but i don't think we can build multinational consensus,the chinese have their own plans,the russians as well,it's everybody for himself out there,unfortunately.If you can't reduce home terrorism to zero i still think you can reduce its impact by the measures i've stated,it really doesn't help when you import millions of poor immigrants that hate you.

Sure, every country has right to protect its borders and decide the quantum and type of immigrants. Currently there is a huge debate going on about imminent invasion of poor bulgarians and romanians here, some even asking to pull out from eu.

 

[temujin]

Then you really don't understand social dynamics.

In every society, there is stratification: there are the haves and the have-nots; the elite and the disenfranchised at the two extremes.

With careful media manipulation, the attention of the masses, especially the disenfranchised, can be focused on convenient scapegoats so the masses can vent their frustrations in that direction. This way they will have less time to make trouble for the elites; they can even feel smugly self-righteous and superior in the balance. If the elites look down upon them, they, in turn, can look down on someone else. Oh joy!

If you remove (Muslim) immigrants as the scapegoats, society will need some other scapegoats to keep the masses occupied. This has been the pattern throughout history and across societies.

And, with the Muslims gone, the next scapegoat might just be you!

@Developereo, you are essentially repeating the social constructionist argument favoured by Muslims to explain their current global predicament. Although I readily accept that your version of reality, one where Muslims are perpetual victims of events around them which they have little agency over, may be very different to mine, does it not occur to you that Muslims for whatever reason appear to have acquired the uncanny ability to always be at the wrong place at the wrong time in recent years???

Answers on a postcard..

 

[flamer84]

Sure, every country has right to protect its borders and decide the quantum and type of immigrants. Currently there is a huge debate going on about imminent invasion of poor bulgarians and romanians here, some even asking to pull out from eu.

And they are right! After the EU accession we've exported some of the worst criminals in the west.They were totally unprepared for what hit them,their liberal ways allowed scores of cunning criminals to take advantage of western system that is why I think all people that can't proove that they are working or contributing positively to their host should be kicked out.

That goes for my country as a whole,the EU has given us 20 billion euros to spend on infrastructure,social and economical development from 2008-2014.To acces those money we should have had well written programs but we couldn't do that because of corrupt politicians and incomptency.We've only spent 2,7 billion,imagine what we could do with the rest of the money,roads,hospitals,create jobs,but we didn't.
If things progress like this in the future they should kick us out I say,if you're corrupt and stupid,you don't belong in the EU,civilisation is for civilised people.

 

[Beerbal]

Well, the war against Islamic radicals will go on for the next 2-3 decades, though the intensity will reduce even more over a period.

The back of the extremists is broken and their strategic goal of occupying major Muslims countries has been thwarted. They have no real chance now.

It is just a matter of finishing them off one by one. Any damage these people can now do is pretty limited.

No soon bro, not soon... It will not end in 2-3 decades.. It will not end till world will become "House-of-Islam".. (The word taken from sharia4UK members and like minded ppl in world..)

 

[Vinod2070]

No soon bro, not soon... It will not end in 2-3 decades.. It will not end till world will become "House-of-Islam".. (The word taken from sharia4UK members and like minded ppl in world..)

I know. That is a different struggle.

I am just talking of the increase activities of these radicals in the last few decades. That will go down when they see it is not working anymore. A lot of latent believers will lie low when the results just refuse to come in.

 

[Developereo]

Every country has its criminals and that is precisely why it does not need some imported ones.

It's not about criminals at all, but scapegoats.
If the "colored" immigrants are not there to look down upon, just who do you think the locals will find to hate?

@Developereo, you are essentially repeating the social constructionist argument favoured by Muslims to explain their current global predicament. Although I readily accept that your version of reality, one where Muslims are perpetual victims of events around them which they have little agency over, may be very different to mine, does it not occur to you that Muslims for whatever reason appear to have acquired the uncanny ability to always be at the wrong place at the wrong time in recent years???

Answers on a postcard..

Once again, the situation with Muslims is not unique. This has been the pattern with many immigrant and minority groups throughout history. Since you live in the UK, I don't need to remind you about the prejudice against the Irish, Romanians, gypsies, etc.

Do you not find it interesting that the stereotypes against these minority groups exactly mirror the stereotypes held by the elites towards the lower classes?

- they breed too much.
- they are lazy.
- they are uneducated and uncultured.
- they have strong criminal tendencies.
- they take more from the system than they give.
- they create crime-infested ghetto areas and no-go zones.
- etc. etc.

Every negative stereotype that the elites hold about the lower classes is in turn projected by them towards even lower scapegoats.

 

[livingdead]

@Developereo : None of these have been told about muslim immigrants in UK as yet. Infact these are told about 'romanians' more than muslims. (who are mostly south asians)

 

[flamer84]

It's not about criminals at all, but scapegoats.
If the "colored" immigrants are not there to look down upon, just who do you think the locals will find to hate?

You still fail to explain why Europe should tolerate and pay for scores of non working immigrants,or even working ones as long as their own citizens are unemployed.These are real countries with real existing natives man not some nursing homes for the poor of the world! And some communities like the muslim one do have higher criminal rates that your average Joe,are hard to integrate as they stick to each other and their traditions.Nobody has to put up with that in his own country,sry,that's how i see things.

@Developereo : None of these have been told about muslim immigrants in UK as yet. Infact these are told about 'romanians' more than muslims. (who are mostly south asians)

Wrong! I've never seen romanians rioting in the streets,imposing "orthodox views" on the majority,etc,pls don't speak BS.I'm sure if you'll have a poll about romanians(btw,people are talking about mostly gypsies not romanians) vs/muslims you would stop talking nonsense.

P.S: Gypsies are the best example of easterners failing to adapt to Europe.They couldn't do it in 1000 years.

 

[livingdead]

Wrong! I've never seen romanians rioting in the streets,imposing "orthodox views" on the majority,etc,pls don't speak BS.I'm sure if you'll have a poll about romanians(btw,people are talking about mostly gypsies not romanians) vs/muslims you would stop talking nonsense.

I was talking about breed too much / lazy / criminals / benefit cheat as mentioned above. Such allegations have not been seen against muslims, rather on 'romanian' and 'irish travellers'. Not saying it is true, am talking about general perception.

People do not know the difference between gypsies and romanians here. Sorry about that.

 

[flamer84]

I was talking about breed too much / lazy / criminals / benefit cheat as mentioned above. Such allegations have not been seen against muslims, rather on 'romanian' and 'irish travellers'. Not saying it is true, am talking about general perception.

People do not know the difference between gypsies and romanians here. Sorry about that.

I have friends in England(working romanians),do read english papers online on a daily basis....most know the difference,and the difference is there to see,you must be blind.

 

[Vinod2070]

Like most things, it is not black or white.

1) There are aspects of the current Western antipathy towards Muslims that may be coming due to racism against all non Westerners or colored people.

2) There are aspects which are due to the retaliation against the specific actions by radical Muslims and the perceived or real Islamic hostility towards the West.

3) Some may even subscribe to the clash of civilization mindset.

It is a matter of conjecture or individual perception as to which part is how much significant. Some people may want to assume that it is all (or mainly) due to the first, some may believe that it is mainly due to the second.

Given the facts that we can all see, I would lean towards the second option.

 

[Developereo]

You still fail to explain why Europe should tolerate and pay for scores of non working immigrants,or even working ones as long as their own citizens are unemployed.

YOU say "Europe", but the next guy would say "Western Europe", or "Britain", meaning Eastern Europeans should be excluded.

Wrong! I've never seen romanians rioting in the streets,imposing "orthodox views" on the majority,etc

I guess I didn't convey my point.

The issue isn't the specific acts you mentioned; ANY group can be demonized and stigmatized by focusing on their misdeeds.

Do you really think it would be hard for the media to make front page news every time some Romanian gang was implicated in prostitution, drugs, etc? Every time some Romanians tried to sneak into the country, the media would put big headlines about the threat from "Romanian invasion"?

Hysteria can be manufactured.