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Mood of the Indian Muslims

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A stark reminder:

https://theprint.in/pageturner/excerpt/nationalism-golwalkars-head-of-rss-three-decades/31781/

To keep up the purity of the Race and its culture, Germany shocked the world by her purging the country of the Semitic Races—the Jews. Race pride at its highest has been manifested here. Germany has also shown how well nigh impossible it is for Races and cultures, having differences going to the root, to be assimilated into one united whole, a good lesson for us in Hindustan to learn and profit by.’

M.S. Golwalkar :

There are only two courses open to these foreign elements’, Golwalkar went on, ‘either to merge themselves in the national race and adopt its culture or to live at its mercy so long as the national race may allow them to do so and quit the country at the sweet will of the national race. That is the only sound view on the minorities’ problem… [The] foreign races in Hindusthan must either adopt the Hindu culture and language, must learn to respect and hold in reverence Hindu religion, must entertain no idea but those of the glorification of the Hindu race and culture, i.e., of the Hindu nation and must lose their separate existence to merge in the Hindu race, or may stay in the country, wholly subordinated to the Hindu Nation, claiming nothing, deserving no privileges, far less any preferential treatment—not even citizen’s rights.’
 
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Whilst your last comment is indeed noble, it is rather futile whilst BJP continues to draw vast amounts of support from Indian society. They facilitate some pretty negative attitudes as well as actions, and their popularity is a clear reflection of how most Indians perceive things. Communal tension is prevalent enough for it to clearly be a problem (just take a look at Kashmir, the Gujarat riots, the riots in UP earlier this year, the overrepresentation of Muslim Indians among the impoverished and underrepresentation among the powerful, etc).

Rehmat Ali was right, Muslims need multiple states carved out of what was British India. Coexistence is good, but it can only work in so many ways and the current scheme just isn't one of them.
Dear Taimur,

I largely agree with you.

It is true that the mainstream Indian narrative has been hijacked by excessive Islamophobia as well as Hindutavadis, if I may say so myself.

These developments are largely natural consequences of the bitter partition of India into 3 parts, combined with the steep rise in global islamophobia in recent history. As you are aware, even the torch bearers of freedom, liberty and inclusion are now starting to raise eyebrows about the peaceful co-existence between Muslims and Non Muslims.

What we see happening in Xinjiang is also because the CCP believes that Islam as it is, is not compatible with the vision of China that the CCP has and thus the Uighurs must be re-educated so to say.

The recent popularity of Hindutva, I would accredit to the long lack of nationwide acceptance of Hindutva, rise in Islamophobia and a gross under performance by the preceding secular governments. However, Hindutvadis are still not as bad as the RDX wielding Madarassis. The Hindu extremist prefers to tweet over pulling the trigger of an AK47.

Yes, there are outliers and there is the babri masjid, and the gujarat massacare, and the samjota express bombings... If you see comprehend the massive population of India, it's poverty and under-development, its diversity and sum it with the tensions of the past it appears to be more rational. I condone all these incidents just as much as I condone 26/11.

Coming back to the mood of Indian Muslims, I have no doubt that the Khans and the Patels of India and even Pakistan can lovingly co-exist as they have for many a centuries now. If you drop your baggage of hatred and judge reality based only on your own personal interactions with people you have very little to be angry about.

There are communities of Afghani Muslims in India who love this country and feel loved by the Indians as well. Its all about having the right mindset, taali do haato se bajti hai.

 
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Dear Taimur,

I largely agree with you.

It is true that the mainstream Indian narrative has been hijacked by excessive Islamophobia as well as Hindutavadis, if I may say so myself.

These developments are largely natural consequences of the bitter partition of India into 3 parts, combined with the steep rise in global islamophobia in recent history. As you are aware, even the torch bearers of freedom, liberty and inclusion are now starting to raise eyebrows about the peaceful co-existence between Muslims and Non Muslims.

What we see happening in Xinjiang is also because the CCP believes that Islam as it is, is not compatible with the vision of China that the CCP has and thus the Uighurs must be re-educated so to say.

The recent popularity of Hindutva, I would accredit to the long lack of nationwide acceptance of Hindutva, rise in Islamophobia and a gross under performance by the preceding secular governments. However, Hindutvadis are still not as bad as the RDX wielding Madarassis. The Hindu extremist prefers to tweet over pulling the trigger of an AK47.

Yes, there are outliers and there is the babri masjid, and the gujarat massacare, and the samjota express bombings... If you see comprehend the massive population of India, it's poverty and under-development, its diversity and sum it with the tensions of the past it appears to be more rational. I condone all these incidents just as much as I condone 26/11.

Coming back to the mood of Indian Muslims, I have no doubt that the Khans and the Patels of India and even Pakistan can lovingly co-exist as they have for many a centuries now. If you drop your baggage of hatred and judge reality based only on your own personal interactions with people you have very little to be angry about.


Indian Muslims have done their job and sacrificed themselves for the survival of Muslims of Bangladesh and Pakistan today . They struggled for Pakistan when the Muslims living in Muslim majority areas of united India were fairly comfortable in their situation. The Muslims of what are Pakistan and Bangladesh today were initially disinterested in Partition of India and only voted for Partition after savage communal riots in the rest of India took a heavy toll of Muslim minority lives there. If there hadn't been Partition, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis would have faced a fate far worse than Bosnians or Kashmiris today..
 
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Dear Taimur,

I largely agree with you.

It is true that the mainstream Indian narrative has been hijacked by excessive Islamophobia as well as Hindutavadis, if I may say so myself.

These developments are largely natural consequences of the bitter partition of India into 3 parts, combined with the steep rise in global islamophobia in recent history. As you are aware, even the torch bearers of freedom, liberty and inclusion are now starting to raise eyebrows about the peaceful co-existence between Muslims and Non Muslims.

What we see happening in Xinjiang is also because the CCP believes that Islam as it is, is not compatible with the vision of China that the CCP has and thus the Uighurs must be re-educated so to say.

The recent popularity of Hindutva, I would accredit to the long lack of nationwide acceptance of Hindutva, rise in Islamophobia and a gross under performance by the preceding secular governments. However, Hindutvadis are still not as bad as the RDX wielding Madarassis. The Hindu extremist prefers to tweet over pulling the trigger of an AK47.

Yes, there are outliers and there is the babri masjid, and the gujarat massacare, and the samjota express bombings... If you see comprehend the massive population of India, it's poverty and under-development, its diversity and sum it with the tensions of the past it appears to be more rational. I condone all these incidents just as much as I condone 26/11.

Coming back to the mood of Indian Muslims, I have no doubt that the Khans and the Patels of India and even Pakistan can lovingly co-exist as they have for many a centuries now. If you drop your baggage of hatred and judge reality based only on your own personal interactions with people you have very little to be angry about.

There are communities of Afghani Muslims in India who love this country and feel loved by the Indians as well. Its all about having the right mindset, taali do haato se bajti hai.



India is a utter communal shithole, what are you talking about

Your trying to shine a turd


There are 2 BILLION muslims in the world now that's more than enough to push back against any prejudice and then some

Acceptance is never a option

200+million Indian Muslims need to now fcuk India and think about themselves and their own community

Sikhs and other communities the same


India at the moment is a poisonous pit and it's simply not sustainable
 
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During my latest visit to India, I was able to interact with common Muslims in various cities, and asked them on life these days in the Hindu Rashtra. Their comments are being reproduced here so that readers have an insight on the current thoughts of Indian Muslims. These are random people you would meet during your daily interaction, but almost all are from the low-skilled service sector. The comments were offered in mostly Hindi/Urdu, but have been translated and edited for easier reading.

I asked three questions to all:
  • How is their life in the current situation (covid/economy etc)?
  • How have they been treated in India by Hindus?
  • How do they see their future?
Shoaib, Lounge Manager: Life was always hard in India. You had to always have a source to get things done. Now you need a Muslim source, because Hindus are just unwilling to help us.
(When asked about the future) – There is no future for us in India. We can just hope for the best for us from Allah

Mushtaq, Taxi driver: Covid has wiped out our savings and our daily income has dropped. We are just surviving by the grace of Allah.
(When asked if Hindus discriminate against him as customers) – some do…it is so obvious….but what can we do. But Allah will provide.
(When asked about the future) – Doesn’t look good, but Allah will provide.

Khaleel, shopkeeper (lower income clientele) – Business has started to pick up.
(When asked if Hindus avoid his store) – Not sure, I am sure some of them do. After all, they hate us, so not unexpected.
(When asked about the future) – GST has ruined our business. Government has ruined the economy. But there seems to be no end in sight because government will keep playing the Hindu-Muslim divide.

Danish, South Indian restaurant owner (serving mostly lower income clientele) – Municipal officials still expect bribes even though we have no income. We are just surviving. Now you just don’t argue with those who come for bribe, because you are Muslim, they can enforce any rule or law on you.
(When asked if Hindus avoid his restaurant) – Doesn’t think so. Most of his customers are Hindu.
(When asked about the future) – Can’t think of any future when you keep getting harassed for bribes.

Umar, appliance repairman – Business is good because appliances keep breaking.
(When asked if Hindus avoid his business) – All the time. When he goes to their home, he can tell what will happen within the first few seconds. The person will see his name and either invite him in, or tell him to wait outside while they call his company and ask for a different repairman.
(When asked about the future) – Looking to move somewhere in the Middle East. There is no future in India.

Sana, Real Estate agent – Business has been bad. It started with Demonetization and then GST and now Covid.
(When asked if Hindus discriminated against her) – All the time. Most of her clients are Muslim and it is very difficult to find them a residence among Hindus. Hindus from Bengal and South are more accommodating of Muslim renters.
(When asked about the future) – Not sure what to say. I hope this government gets voted out. Things will get worse before they get better.

Arif, electrician – Business is slow, difficult to manage family. Everything is expensive now.
(When asked if Hindus avoid him as a vendor) – Not sure, probably do. He says he gets most of his business from a general contractor, who is a Muslim.
(When asked about the future) – Not sure. Everything is getting expensive day by day. Allah will provide.

Ziauddin, Butcher – Business has been terrible. Difficult to get animals and prices have gone up and customers are unwilling to pay.
(When asked if Hindus avoid him as a vendor) – His clients are all Muslim, so cannot say.
(When asked about the future) – Business is difficult. Many of his friends have left this business. He will keep doing it because he doesn’t know anything else.

When talking to Muslim professionals – people who are working in established companies in management or technical positions, their outlook was less positive and more dire.
  • Everyone said they do not discuss politics in the office, because everyone is pro-BJP and dislikes Muslims. One remarked that anti-Muslim comments are passed knowing fully that Muslims can hear them.
  • Most could not understand why Hindus hate them and believe all the propaganda and lies spewed on WhatsApp against them. They were amazed how smart and educated Hindus in well to do positions believe anything on WhatsApp.
  • No one had any faith in the government or institutions to make things better for Muslims. No one had any faith in the political process.
  • No one thinks that the BJP can be defeated. For most, they had already accepted that the BJP will be the single ruling party for the foreseeable future.
  • No one expected things to get better for Muslims. Everyone was sort of expecting things to get a lot worse before it gets better.
  • Everyone had the realization that they represented the cream of Muslim society to be fortunate enough to land such jobs.
  • Everyone was waiting for an opportunity to migrate from India. “We have no future in this country” was a common phrase I heard again and again.
  • Everyone was expecting further laws to be passed to harass Muslims.
  • Everyone spoke glowingly of the following – Bengalis, Sikhs, Tamils and Malayalis – that these were the only people who had not been corrupted by the scourge of Hindutva.
The above, is of course, not meant to be representative of the entire Muslim community, but provides a good insight in the current mood of the community - one of despair and little hope for the future.
always been this way, don't think bjp or modi have made matters any worse for Indian muslims.
 
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These developments are largely natural consequences of the bitter partition of India into 3 parts, combined with the steep rise in global islamophobia in recent history. As you are aware, even the torch bearers of freedom, liberty and inclusion are now starting to raise eyebrows about the peaceful co-existence between Muslims and Non Muslims.

I'd rather not describe them as the torch bearers, they tend to just be too pompous to forgo their "sophisticated" justifications for many of their stupid views (which stems back to their superiority complex, which is really ironic considering how infantile the West's civilisation is compared to other parts of the world such as China, the Levant, the sub-continent, etc).

I also think it's important to refer to anti-Muslim sentiment as just that, because the term "Islamophobia" is often just used to malign people who disagree with Islam (which really isn't the problem here, people can have their own opinions about Islam as a religion).

What we see happening in Xinjiang is also because the CCP believes that Islam as it is, is not compatible with the vision of China that the CCP has and thus the Uighurs must be re-educated so to say.

China cares more about them being Uyghurs, targeting their Islamic values is just another way to break them. Case in point, they're far more tame with the Huis. I think this can be fairly juxtaposed against the fact that some people in India hate Muslims just for being Muslim, regardless of their ethnic background.

The recent popularity of Hindutva, I would accredit to the long lack of nationwide acceptance of Hindutva, rise in Islamophobia and a gross under performance by the preceding secular governments.

Seems plausible.

However, Hindutvadis are still not as bad as the RDX wielding Madarassis. The Hindu extremist prefers to tweet over pulling the trigger of an AK47.

That's largely because they can't inflict the same level of violence rather than because they don't want to. Just take a look at what happens/happened when they could, it's the same story.

Yes, there are outliers and there is the babri masjid, and the gujarat massacare, and the samjota express bombings... If you see comprehend the massive population of India, it's poverty and under-development, its diversity and sum it with the tensions of the past it appears to be more rational. I condone all these incidents just as much as I condone 26/11.

Obviously most Indians aren't committing such blatant atrocities, and I'd even actually argue that in many respects Muslims in India are treated better than Ahmadis, Christians, Hindus, etc in Pakistan are. But that doesn't change the fact that there are still problems in India and that the situation is rapidly devolving into something that will become even worse than what happens in Pakistan if it continues.

Coming back to the mood of Indian Muslims, I have no doubt that the Khans and the Patels of India and even Pakistan can lovingly co-exist as they have for many a centuries now. If you drop your baggage of hatred and judge reality based only on your own personal interactions with people you have very little to be angry about.

Yeah I have no problems with getting along with random people, but the problem is, not everyone thinks like that. It only takes one drop to poison the well. It's best to keep cordial ties from afar in light of this predicament, with more partitions being required in India itself whilst any minor residual populations are to be protected/preserved in order to ensure their positive treatment (because such populations always remain no matter how many partitions one has).

There are communities of Afghani Muslims in India who love this country and feel loved by the Indians as well. Its all about having the right mindset, taali do haato se bajti hai.

I'm sure that there are, but that doesn't change things (and is in fact largely mitigated by the different dynamics between two peoples from entirely different nations).
 
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No, Indians just are wary of Islam.

wonder why, hmm

And Indian Muslims are vary of Hindus

Sikhs are realising they should have accepted a independent Sikh state in 1947

You can't trap people in a prison where everyone hates each other

It's turning out to be a disaster
 
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And Indian Muslims are vary of Hindus

Sikhs are realising they should have accepted a independent Sikh state in 1947

You can't trap people in a prison where everyone hates each other

It's turning out to be a disaster
na, things are fine.

mostly peaceful bunch, us guys here

all societies have some issues.
 
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na, things are fine.

mostly peaceful bunch, us guys here

all societies have some issues.


This is beyond issues

As Jinnah predicted and advised, the different people's need Partition in order to have space to express themselves without turning on the people they consider the other

You can't have a country where the hindutva are pushing for a Hindu Extremist state where also hundreds of millions of Muslims, Sikhs, xtians etc exist

India have never been this poisonous in 70 years and the average man knows it

Even during the early 90s of Kashmiri struggle many Indian Muslims were vocal Indians, many even encouraged Kashmiri to accept being Indian

Why we are so encouraged at the moment is because the idea of a united India is over and everybody is just stuck not sure what to do

The Hindus are the majority and are thus pushing a hindutva agenda, everybody else is thus far scratching their heads at what India is becoming but that will change now
 
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Reality of today's India.

Thank you @xeuss for a fantastic peace showing just he struggle of an ordinary Indian. I often engage in conversation here and they all tell me the same story.


It's silly that Hinduvata driven sanghis on this forum are defending this and their only argument is pointing fingers at other neighbours.
 
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