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Modified Yuan with YJ8 cruise missile a threat to Indian Navy

Pakistan made a huge mistake when they decided to cancel deal with Germany for TYPE-214 submarines. Instead they went to china n look what they are giving you.

That's not the case we can still have those but I think their is another reason we put it pending and that may reveal in distant future.

you figured it out. But yea, Pakistan, Thailand is buying, mostly because they don't take procurement advice from this guy.

You know what Genesis I believe all that written in this article is bogus because of what I have learned from this very forum. Pakistanis are not buttheads that they make a stupid decision and that would be with 5 Billion US$ NAAAAHHHHHHHH that's not possible because we are already squeezed with our funding and making stupid decisions are not the option so I think S-20 is one of the most lethal weapon available for us when we can even go for customised German U-214 so I believe what ever written in this article is out of Jealousy nothing much.
 
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These Chinese Subs with AIP are quite good can man match most subs being produced by Europe.

What do you want to say about this article @Zarvan
CHINANAVY October 7, 2015 Dave Majumdar 14

submarines4 The National Interest4
Over the past two decades, the People’s Republic of China has made great advances in its military capabilities. However, it still lags woefully behind in developing nuclear-powered submarines. The problem for the Chinese is that they lack the necessary quieting and propulsion technologies to build anything remotely comparable to an American or Russian nuclear submarine.

Even the newest Chinese Jin-class ballistic nuclear missile submarines and improved Shang-class nuclear attack submarines are louder than 1970s-era Soviet-built Victor III-class attack submarine or the Delta III-class boomer, according to the U.S. Navy’s Office of Naval Intelligence.

In fact, even China’s forthcoming Type 95 will be louder than the Soviet Union’s Project 971 Shchuka-B-class submarines — better know by its NATO reporting name Akula I. Nor is it likely that the Type 96 nuclear-power ballistic missile submarine will be any better. Chinese diesel submarines are, of course, another matter entirely.

But why are the Chinese lagging behind in nuclear submarines when they seem to be advancing in leaps and bounds in almost every other field? I asked several of the best U.S. naval experts why that’s the case.

Jerry Hendrix, a former Navy captain, director of the Defense Strategies and Assessments Program at the Center for a New American Security had this to say:

It’s a two-part answer. One, noise-quieting technologies is one area where we have been particularly careful not to let out. Still, the Russians have not made any prohibitions against sharing some particular technologies and their export Kilos are pretty quiet so that leads you to the second answer: The Chinese maritime manufacturing techniques are not yet adapted to submarines. Their stuff is still pretty noisy. That’s all I can really go into.

Bryan McGrath is the deputy director of the Hudson Institute’s Center for American Seapower and the managing director of the The FerryBridge Group naval consultancy. He’s also a retired Navy commander. He had this to say:

China’s nuclear submarine program lags other areas of its naval prowess for two primary reasons. The first is that until twenty years ago, designing and building nuclear submarines simply was not a priority. The second reason is related to the first, and that is the fact that designing and building nuclear submarines is an extremely difficult technical undertaking. That they decided to feature nuclear submarines twenty years ago did not instantly result in the requisite skills to effectively and efficiently build them. These will take time, focus and very likely, a stepped-up industrial espionage program to attain.

Bryan Clark is a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments. He was a special assistant to the chief of naval operations and was a Navy submarine officer. He offered his take:

Nuclear submarines have not been a priority for China, since the advantages they offer over diesel or air-independent propulsion (AIP) submarines (greater endurance, speed, and capacity) are not as significant for the missions they have used their submarines to do, such as coastal defense against enemy surface ships and surveillance.



Current Chinese diesel submarines like the Song are not as advanced as their European counterparts, but they are effective in this role and appear to be reliable enough for those missions; China’s Kilo-class submarines are able to carry the very lethal SS-N-27 anti-ship cruise missile. China’s newest AIP submarine, the Yuan, is reported to have modern combat systems and be able to deploy missiles, torpedoes, and mines as well. The recent increase in emphasis on nuclear submarines is coming as China attempts to increase its reach and role in geopolitical affairs.



Today, they are developing an SSBN and a new class of nuclear attack submarine in line with their effort to deploy a “blue-water” navy and desire to have a second strike nuclear capability on par with other great powers.

Andrew Erickson, an associate professor at the U.S. Naval War College and frequent TNI contributor, summed it up succinctly: “One word: propulsion!”

“Submarines suitable for comprehensive blue water operations must be nuclear-powered, energy-dense and quiet,” Erickson wrote recently for TNI. “China has struggled in these and related areas. And it can’t simply draw on its burgeoning civilian nuclear industry because the technologies and skill sets are so different.”

China can’t use the lessons learnt on its civilian land-based high-temperature gas-cooled reactors (HTGRs) because those systems lack the energy density for naval applications.

Source: China’s Shoddy, Noisy Nuclear Submarines
 
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First article is not right secondly new Submarines like Type 93 G and Type 95 are one of the best nuclear submarines in the world. As for S20 AIP is quite similar what Europe offers. @Deino @Beast @cirr
No my point is as the article quoted the Chinese Subs are not quite till now as these tech are only known to US, Europe, and Russian, and Chinese have copied Russian Export variant but still not as par as Russian.
 
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No my point is as the article quoted the Chinese Subs are not quite till now as these tech are only known to US, Europe, and Russian, and Chinese have copied Russian Export variant but still not as par as Russian.
Yes they has some notice issues but those are pretty much resolved @Chinese-Dragon
 
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your modified YJ-8 is the export varient of the chinese missile it is called yj 82
The YJ-82 is externally similar to the YJ-8, and has the same solid-propellant rocket booster and guidance system as the YJ-8. The most distinctive difference on the YJ-82 is that it employs a turbojet with paraffin (kerosene)-based fuel to replace the original solid rocket engine. For this reason the fuselage was extended to accommodate the extra fuel. The maximum range of the missile has also been extended from the original 40 km (or 80 km for YJ-81/C-801A) to 120 km.
The YJ-82 is almost identical to the YJ-8 in appearance apart from a slightly longer fuselage and an air inlet for the turbojet engine. The missile has a slim body and ovoid nose. There are four front delta wings, four smaller control surfaces, and four large tail stabilising wings. The tail wings are mounted on the rocket booster and will be lost when the booster detaches from the missile body. The air inlet is located between the main fins under the missile body. The front and tail wings are folded when the missile is in the launcher.

When the missile is launched, the solid rocket propellant booster accelerates the speed of the missile to Mach 0.9 in a few seconds. After the booster burns out, it detaches from the missile body and the missile's turbojet engine starts working. Controlled by the inertial autopilot system and radio altimeter, the missile flies at a cruising speed of Mach 0.9, and the cruise altitude is reduced to 10–20 metres (depending on the sea state) from the original 20–30 metres of the C-801/YJ-81.
It is a sub sonic cruise missile, Exocet is more dangerous than this
 
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@Zarvan

Please see this report
Submarine Matters: Pakistan to receive Chinese Type 035 Ming class submarines

Its by a good respected blogger Peter Coates.. He deals specifically with more of submarines and his information pool mostly comprise of data available via publink links and analysis based on various sources (on and off the records but he prefers on the records to link via public documentation methodology)

In his article he had linked a video
This video suppose to be uploaded via Pla-N (he had given courtesy) and it says in chinese that Pak is buying 4 Ming class to be built in Karachi without AIP and 4 AIP Mings will be supplied directly.

In a response to "S20" being the sub not Ming, Pete says

" If China supplied a version of the, as yet unseen, S20 (or S-20) that has no AIP, to Pakistan, then that export sub may be more a development of the Song or Ming rather than development of the Yuan. This is because the Yuan is most importantly distinguished from the Song by the Yuan having AIP.

Alternatively if China did supply AIP - A particular difficulty for China is that its AIP is based on (or is) the Swedish designed and exported Stirling engine. I don’t think Sweden (which is bringing out a second generation Stirling) would be happy continuing to supply key weapons technology to China if Sweden perceived China is handing it on to a third party country embroiled in a grim nuclear confrontation. "

I wish if you can leave a comment on his blog Q&A, and information sources are reliable, he will definitely update the information but as of now the video (is in chinese and i don know that language) seems to suggest Pete's conclusions.
 
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The Chinese started building the first phase of four yuan class submarine requested by the Pakistani Navy under a $5 billion deal. as the second phase of four submarines will be built in Karachi Pakistan with the transfer of technology. including modifications of last two submarines with Vertical launching cells. which can fire submarine launched cruise missiles or Ballistic missiles. the Pakistan get the export version of Yuan class dubbed by S 20, comes without having the Air independent propulsion which keep the submarine submerged for longer times.

I highly doubt if these subs will come without AIP system considering the older Augusta have them and also these new subs are going to be an assured second strike capability for us, no way they are going to be without AIP system.
 
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@Zarvan

Please see this report
Submarine Matters: Pakistan to receive Chinese Type 035 Ming class submarines

Its by a good respected blogger Peter Coates.. He deals specifically with more of submarines and his information pool mostly comprise of data available via publink links and analysis based on various sources (on and off the records but he prefers on the records to link via public documentation methodology)

In his article he had linked a video
This video suppose to be uploaded via Pla-N (he had given courtesy) and it says in chinese that Pak is buying 4 Ming class to be built in Karachi without AIP and 4 AIP Mings will be supplied directly.

In a response to "S20" being the sub not Ming, Pete says

" If China supplied a version of the, as yet unseen, S20 (or S-20) that has no AIP, to Pakistan, then that export sub may be more a development of the Song or Ming rather than development of the Yuan. This is because the Yuan is most importantly distinguished from the Song by the Yuan having AIP.

Alternatively if China did supply AIP - A particular difficulty for China is that its AIP is based on (or is) the Swedish designed and exported Stirling engine. I don’t think Sweden (which is bringing out a second generation Stirling) would be happy continuing to supply key weapons technology to China if Sweden perceived China is handing it on to a third party country embroiled in a grim nuclear confrontation. "

I wish if you can leave a comment on his blog Q&A, and information sources are reliable, he will definitely update the information but as of now the video (is in chinese and i don know that language) seems to suggest Pete's conclusions.

Well we are not buying old Ming class for sure but yes half of these 8 submarines could be Qing Class
 
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@Zarvan

Please see this report
Submarine Matters: Pakistan to receive Chinese Type 035 Ming class submarines

Its by a good respected blogger Peter Coates.. He deals specifically with more of submarines and his information pool mostly comprise of data available via publink links and analysis based on various sources (on and off the records but he prefers on the records to link via public documentation methodology)

In his article he had linked a video
This video suppose to be uploaded via Pla-N (he had given courtesy) and it says in chinese that Pak is buying 4 Ming class to be built in Karachi without AIP and 4 AIP Mings will be supplied directly.

In a response to "S20" being the sub not Ming, Pete says

" If China supplied a version of the, as yet unseen, S20 (or S-20) that has no AIP, to Pakistan, then that export sub may be more a development of the Song or Ming rather than development of the Yuan. This is because the Yuan is most importantly distinguished from the Song by the Yuan having AIP.

Alternatively if China did supply AIP - A particular difficulty for China is that its AIP is based on (or is) the Swedish designed and exported Stirling engine. I don’t think Sweden (which is bringing out a second generation Stirling) would be happy continuing to supply key weapons technology to China if Sweden perceived China is handing it on to a third party country embroiled in a grim nuclear confrontation. "

I wish if you can leave a comment on his blog Q&A, and information sources are reliable, he will definitely update the information but as of now the video (is in chinese and i don know that language) seems to suggest Pete's conclusions.
I doubt his information when regards to Chinese matter is respectable. Please stop quoting this joker article. Clearly these westerner knows nothing when comes to Chinese arm export and technology. And clearly you choose this info with an agenda.

This is the export submarine China been promoting.

1510802_-_main.jpg


Does it looks like the Type035 Ming?
 
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