Modi Government Clears Defence Purchases Worth Rs. 20,000 Crore

[Agent_47]

Can you specify which of the 4 kilos are gonna be upgraded out of 8 in active service (Sindhurakshak and Sinshukirti are no more available)

I some what figured it out.
Indian Navy News & Discussions | Page 228

 

[sancho]

Sikorsky going in country in late September to witness the opening of the bids. If the issues raised by NH have been put aside I suspect the S-70B will win this competition. No winner can be announced until the bids have been opened and evaluated. No way, in my opinion, the NH90 can beat the S-70B on cost. I can almost guarantee a protest by NH if they don't win.

It shouldn't be surprising that the S70 is cheaper per unit, even more so if that deal goes the FMS route. But it can beat the S70 on performance and if the follow on deal inlcudes a licence production option, that might be the real chance for the NH90 to win, as licence production was always the issue with US arms so far.

 

[jha]

So within 100 days we have seen a number of stuck deals moving forward. Lets see when they decide on procuring MRTT and scraping MRCA.

 

[sancho]

So within 100 days we have seen a number of stuck deals moving forward. Lets see when they decide on procuring MRTT and scraping MRCA.

We had seen the same if this was not had been an election year, since all these things were cleared before. The big decisions on the other side, were not taken yet, M777, MMRCA, P75I, FICV, self propelled howitzer... and LUH was scrapped and might be re-issued with some changes again, lets see how long that will take now.

 

[jha]

We had seen the same if this was not had been an election year, since all these things were cleared before. The big decisions on the other side, were not taken yet, M777, MMRCA, P75I, FICV, self propelled howitzer... and LUH was scrapped and might be re-issued with some changes again, lets see how long that will take now.

P75I and Howitzers will be fast tracked albeit with some changes. M777, MRCA and FICV might see some more delays.

 

[sancho]

P75I and Howitzers will be fast tracked albeit with some changes. M777, MRCA and FICV might see some more delays.

That's what they said about LUH too, but now with the change of the procedure, it might be an all new competition again and there is a chance that they might go for the same in the light howitzer competition too, inviting those that vendors that were banned, or hoping on indigenous solutions and FICV might be the longest shot.

 

[jha]

That's what they said about LUH too, but now with the change of the procedure, it might be an all new competition again and there is a chance that they might go for the same in the light howitzer competition too, inviting those that vendors that were banned, or hoping on indigenous solutions and FICV might be the longest shot.

This will be another better thing to do. I have always believed DENEL will share more than others. BAE's pressure tactic may not work in Light Guns. Paying too much for those guns would have raised some queries from CAG.

 

[sancho]

This will be another better thing to do. I have always believed DENEL will share more than others. BAE's pressure tactic may not work in Light Guns. Paying too much for those guns would have raised some queries from CAG.

Who cares about CAG complaints about cost, as long as the guns are working as IA expect it and can contribute to secure the nation? The fact is, there is hardly any alternative available, except of the gun from Singapore that earlier was banned. But without an alternative, we have to pay if it's necessary for the safty of the country.
Losen up the banning procedures and re-issuing the LUH might be the biggest things the new DM did so far, so enough space to improve.

 

[jha]

Who cares about CAG complaints about cost, as long as the guns are working as IA expect it and can contribute to secure the nation? The fact is, there is hardly any alternative available, except of the gun from Singapore that earlier was banned. But without an alternative, we have to pay if it's necessary for the safty of the country.
Losen up the banning procedures and re-issuing the LUH might be the biggest things the new DM did so far, so enough space to improve.

Well now Pegasus can be given an other chance. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I dont think Modi will let an American company charge premium if any working alternative is available.

 

[sancho]

Well now Pegasus can be given an other chance. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I dont think Modi will let an American company charge premium if any working alternative is available.

Which again means major delays!

 

[jha]

Which again means major delays!

Thats for sure. Light Howitzers are not coming anytime soon.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Sikorsky going in country in late September to witness the opening of the bids. If the issues raised by NH have been put aside I suspect the S-70B will win this competition. No winner can be announced until the bids have been opened and evaluated. No way, in my opinion, the NH90 can beat the S-70B on cost. I can almost guarantee a protest by NH if they don't win.

Nice to see you back on here sir! You really know what's what with this deal. What are your sources for Sikorsky heading to India later in Sept for the bids to be opened?

I'm still reading up the news of this week, but the report cloud_9 posted does not say that!



That would mean, that we still want 197 foreign helicopters, but not licence produced from HAL, but possibly a privat partner.

I know, as I added later:

Edit, it seems that the news has been HIGHLY misleading- what is actually happening is that the 197 order will be opened up for Indian firms who tie up with foreign helo manufactures (like the LHD/LPD and arty deals).

 

[Rikbo]

It shouldn't be surprising that the S70 is cheaper per unit, even more so if that deal goes the FMS route. But it can beat the S70 on performance and if the follow on deal inlcudes a licence production option, that might be the real chance for the NH90 to win, as licence production was always the issue with US arms so far.

FMS sales are always more expensive since the USN is involved. If the S-70B wins it will be a direct commercial sale. Note that discussions have already been held regarding a co-production facility in India to make the aircraft there. I am sure the NH-90 can out perform the 70B in some areas given it is a larger aircraft, but that is not the issue. Both aircraft have been declared fully compliant with the requirements, so, the less expensive solution should prevail. Remember the USN does not promote the 70B, it only promotes the 60R, and typically is not involved in 70B sales. The only exception is Brazil which requested an FMS sale of the 70B which was very unusual. The USN has been trying to sell the 60R to Brazil but they love their S-70B which is why they ordered more.

 

[Rikbo]

Nice to see you back on here sir! You really know what's what with this deal. What are your sources for Sikorsky heading to India later in Sept for the bids to be opened?


I know, as I added later:

Hi @Abingdonboy - yea, good to be back. I have been here monitoring but had nothing to say until this news came out. Still close to my friends at Sikorsky with whom I worked on India so this program is very close to my heart. You know my passion for the 70B and this could be the most important win for this aircraft in its history, especially with the follow on buys that will occur. If the 70B wins I might even come out of retirement to help India acquire this aircraft as domain expert. They were a very professional and gracious customer when they visited Sikorsky some years back and I would love to work with them again. I have some great ideas for some weapons systems they should add that ideally would suit their mission.

 

[sancho]

Note that discussions have already been held regarding a co-production facility in India to make the aircraft there...

We already make parts of the helicopter here, but that's outscourcing of production, to reduce the costs from the US side, not demanding licence production including critical techs from the Indian side. So far you always failed to comply to our ToT / offset demands in competitions for licence production, even for the ATGMs that seems to be the biggest issue. So if that remains only a sale for a limited number of helicopters for a specific role (ASW in this case) the order can surely go to Sikorsky, just as we bought limited numbers of special ops C130Js and now most likely Apaches, but the big ticket deals goes to those, that provide us with what we want (European MMRCA, Russian Mi 17 helicopters, Russian or European LUH, Russian MTA and NG fighters...).

Btw the reports are not clear about which version of the Sea Hawk is on offer, some even said that Sikorsky offered both the S70 and the 60R (or can you shed some light here?), so lets see about that, the crucial point however is, if the Sea Hawk does comply to the minimum requirements, but without having the RFP, it will difficult to judge that.